why do virgin trains lie about where the train will stop?

this is one for the TSR train geeks. so i'm quite a regular on the euston to manchester service - and i've always wondered why Virgin trains make completely unannounced stops at places like stockport, MK and watford junction. It won't appear on any of the screens or train announcements, then it'll just pull into stockport and nobody gets off and occasionally a few random passengers get on.

It's like, why not just admit this train is going to stop at stockport? it might actually be handy for people trying to get to stockport.

Reply 1

lordcrusade9

what you mean they do not mention it? i thought at the big sign in Euston, it says calling for "... ... ..." and you would know? I don't quite get what you mean? do you mean when you book tickets online, it does not tell you where else it is going to stop?

Reply 2

andthatswhy

no i mean at any of the signs at euston/manchester it doesn't say it's going to stop at these places. it'll be like "10.45 to Manchester, calling at Watford Junction, Stoke On Trent, Manchester Picadilly." And then you'll get on the train and they'll repeat the same things. Then it will inexplicably make a stop at Stockport and take on extra passengers.

Reply 3

Ghost

Are you sure the train driver isn't finishing his shift? It's possible that it is the most convinient place for him to get off and swap with another driver.

Reply 4

andthatswhy

ah yeah, that's the most sensible explanation by far, didn't think of that!

Reply 5

u2o_uk

if you look on the printed timetables, you'll see that some stops are "pick-up only" for passengers to board but not get off. Sometimes the announcements are made like "calling at xxx for picking up passengers before calling at yyy...".

The logics of this, however, is something im confused by!

Reply 6

bluenoxid

Some trains are stop to set down only (drop passengers off but not pick them up) and other trains are pick up only (passengers get on, but shouldnt get off)

There are many reasons but usually it is due to what other trains are in the area. It can prevent an intercity train being used as a peak service or in some cases provide relief for local services. That is for Pick up only. Set Down only can allow the train to serve a station but if it is a little early it does not have to wait until the time it is timetabled to depart, it can depart anyway.

Virgin Trains try to use their trains as capacity relief on the West Coast, hence the unannounced stops.

Reply 7

Expression

I'm going to not talk about the West Coast Mainline, as I'm party to information that I can't share.

However, a similar thing happens on the East Coast Mainline, where certain of the Hull Trains services call at Stevenage to pick-up at xxUxx hours or to set down at yySyy hours dependant on which peak we're talking about.

The reason they don't advertise this fact, so to normal passengers standing at Stevenage in the morning waiting for a train into London is that is that Stevenage is a FCC and a GNER station and the London-bound money from Stevenage is theirs.

However, obviously on a service like Hull Trains, money from Hull to Stevenage in a morning is perfectly fine as Hull Trains'.

Mind you Hull Trains is an open access operator.

As is Heathrow Connect, who last time I was at Paddington, which was a while ago admittedly, advertised the destination of their trains as Ealing Broadway, and then at the bottom of the departure board added "also calls at Heathrow Central"; thought at Hayes & Harlington and Ealing Broadway is of course shows its destination as Heathrow Central properly. Why do they do this? Well they want Paddington passengers to take the Heathrow Express!

Lets face it, if you're a regular customer at a station, and you know that a Virgin service from Manchester Picc to Euston late at night stops off a Watford Junction to set down only; and it does it every night, then you're bound to cotton on and jump on, you just have to know, as it won't be on the departure board at Watford as a service to Euston.

All of this topic is to do with Track Access Agreements between train operators, and flow of the passenger fares.

Reply 8

AT82

Those trains have always stopped at those stations. Also Stockport is a very very major station and has lots of traffic going through it.

I don't really see what the problem is.

I will use Stockport as an example, I think Expression has covered it.

Basically there are loads of local trains going from Manc Picc to Stockport, so they don't want these commuters getting on a flash Pendolino and crowding it they want them to get on the local trains.

But it has to stop at Stockport because a lot of people do board there to Stoke on Trent and London etc.

Its like if you are going to Southport from the car from Manchester, we all know the best way is the East Lancs, but due to traffic flow the signs tell us to use the M62.

Reply 9

blackfish

it could be that the departure board only lists the most important station stops :p:

I had that today when i went from Crewe to Bristol the departure board said:

Train Calling At: Wolverhampton, Birmingham New Street, Chelthenham Spa, Bristol Parkway, Bristol Temple Meads, Taunton, Tiverton Parkway, Exeter St Davids, Newton Abbot, Totnes, Plymout & Stations Through Cornwall To Penzance

It didn't list the following stations: Liskeard, Bodmin Parkway, Par, St Austell, Truro, Redruth, Camborne & St Erth

probably not the reason but a suggestion :smile:

The other thing I do find annoying though is that the information boards for First Great Western, Transpennine Express and South West Trains hardly ever tell you where first class is located! Really annoying when your waiting at the wrong end of the platform :p:

Reply 10

sandettielightvessel

*In general*, and I stress in general, FC is towards the up end of the train (i.e. London end in most cases). So, the front of the train heading towards London and the back heading away - so FC is nearest the buffers at the terminus.

Of course sod's law dictates the one time you arrive early and walk right down the platform to where your coach should be, the PA announces that the train is running in reverse formation!