Sick and tired of conspiracy crap infecting our politics

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    I'm becoming completely sick and tired of the conspiracist, demagogic, pseudo-populist crap that has completely infected our politics, This mindset is particularly bad among the Corbynites and UKIP (and the latter is not a dig at everyone who voted Leave, I did so myself for reasons relating to democratic accountability), and the Trumpites, but it is starting to make itself felt in all areas.

    This mindset involves the automatic assumption that everything is a conspiracy, and everyone in any position of authority is part of it. It involves a complete contempt for any media organisation that fails to pander to their prejudices; you see it with Corbynites attacking the Guardian for reporting anything unfavourable to Corbyn; as though "It's my right not to have my views challenged; if you print something that contradicts what I believe, then you are completely corrupt."

    It involves complete contempt for any sort of experts, and the stance that their feelings override facts; that what they read on some conspiracy website trumps the opinion of people who are qualified to know whereof they speak. It involves a total scorn of all the advances (social, economic, political, technological) that our society has made in the last 150 years in favour of a default view that everything is ****, everything is corrupt, and "everyone is against me". You also find that people who hold these views end up sympathising with those whose political aims couldn't be more different; for example, UKIP supporters feeling very positive toward Corbyn, because they perceive him as being "against the establishment" and shares their hatred of Blair. It goes to support the "horseshoe" theory of politics; that the hard left and far right have more in common with each other than with their respective centre-left and centre-right brethren.

    These people are often extremely abusive on Twitter to anyone they perceive as being part of the establishment/Zionists/Blairites/neoliberals/lizard people (delete as appropriate). Any attempt to provide an earnest, well-thought out answer actually serves to encourage them as they sense that as weakness. Any citation of facts is simply ignored or met with "Well they would say that, wouldn't they". You can see this attitude in the Smith/Corbyn debate when Smith said things that were indisputably and demonstrably true, and the Corbyn supporters groaned and heckled and did this snide sort-of laugh.

    And that laugh speaks to a major element of this; the laugh says, "Oh I know the real truth. I know how things really work. I won't fall for your establishment 'facts'". This is the mindset they have; they invariably have an extremely obnoxious mentality based on their belief that they are really clever, that they've worked out how things truly work and anyone who disagrees is either stupid, malicious or part of the conspiracy.

    Finally, this mindset involves a foundational "betrayal myth". In 1920s and 1930s Germany the far-right parties developed what was called the "stab in the back" myth. It was a narrative that said that Germany wasn't truly defeated militarily, that they were winning the war but the Jews betrayed them. "Stab in the back" myths are prevalent in many groups in many societies, but they can be particularly pernicious as people start to believe that some conspiratorial group "sold us down the river". It elevates emotion over historical inquiry. And this is precisely the myth we are seeing develop on both the hard-left and hard-right. On the Corbynite left the "stab in the back" myth is that Blair betrayed the Labour movement, that everything was great before Blair and that he turned the Labour Party into a "Tory-lite" party. On the hard right, it involves a belief that politicians "sold us down the river" on immigration, that there was some conspiracy to "dilute the white race" or something equally inane.

    Unfortunately a worldview built around a perception of betrayal, rather than a positive vision of society, becomes a poison in the body politic. For the people who believe it, their driving motivation becomes anger, embitterment and revenge. And anyone who fails to sign up to that belief, or disagrees with their methods, immediately is believed to be an accomplice to the betrayal.

    This mindset, overall (as described in the whole post), is spreading like a toxin through our society, and it has unfortunately been turbocharged by the internet which allows people to create an echo chamber of similarly-minded extremists who all egg each other on and make them feel almost like they are part of a gang (which can be, for people who have psychological or emotional problems, very appealing). I believe the backlash against these people is coming; for all their claims of populist appeal, they are in fact still on the fringe. The vast majority of ordinary non-politically inclined voters still look to moderate centre-left and centre-right ideas as the way forward. But until the judgment of the people works its magic, the problem (and the people and their poisonous ideas) will continue to fester and putrify

    KimKallstrom JamesN88 KingBradly Good bloke L i b
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    As always, a very good post. I'm afraid I have nothing really to add to what you have said, only that I ask you tag me in your next posts! I think in a lot of cases the Internet can amplify the thoughts of these people so that they seem greater in number than they truly are, and I know that the majority of the moderate British public (be that centre-left or centre-right) will not be swayed so easily at the ballot box by their conspiracy-peddling nonsense. Nevertheless, I do find it worrying how an increasing number of people do appear to genuinely believe that the establishment somehow "has it in for them", and would instead turn to more populist causes with no real rational grounding to make their thoughts known as opposed to just using their brain to evaluate the situation and therefore realise that no, 'the establishment' aren't out to get them. I do agree that our culture is becoming far too-PC, but some of the claims of these people are frankly ridiculous (such as the oh-so-popular Jewish conspiracy).
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    What do you expect though? We live in an age where the "elites" as it were are facing difficult problems that have no easy answers. When faced with problems like constant working class unemployment, rising living costs and stagnant wages, the typical elites seem flummoxed. UKIP, Trump, the FNL and all the others are proposing easy, understandable solutions, all mixed in with the conspiracy narrative you have eloquently described, that appeals to voters as it puts the blame on someone else. The end of manufacturing jobs is not a hidden economic force, but the fault of corrupt politicians and foreigners. It is seductive.

    It is also a narrative that fits so easily into a tweet or (to use a historical term) a headline.
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    (Original post by JRKinder)
    As always, a very good post. I'm afraid I have nothing really to add to what you have said, only that I ask you tag me in your next posts!
    Thanks a lot, that's very kind indeed. I will remember to tag you. Apologies for the long post I'm about to make.

    I think in a lot of cases the Internet can amplify the thoughts of these people so that they seem greater in number than they truly are, and I know that the majority of the moderate British public (be that centre-left or centre-right) will not be swayed so easily at the ballot box by their conspiracy-peddling nonsense
    You've hit the nail on the head. The tendency of the internet to aggregate people by interest means that their relatively small political inclination can seem extremely substantial when one is inside the bubble. Sometimes there will be an article about, say, Corbyn on a smaller publication (like the article about the £20,000 from Iran that Corbyn took, which was published on businessinsider) and they will post on Twitter and Facebook and send all of their followers there. Suddenly a comment section will be flooded with abuse, denial etc. And when they see that, they might think "Wow, 200 comments in favour of Corbyn. We are legion". I think that kind of scenario also has an intoxicating effect for some people, particularly those who have emotional problems or are slightly sociopathic; the feeling of being part of a gang, being able to shout someone down, to subsume one's self into the mob... that can amplify the emotions around their political views. And increasingly emotion does seem to be the dominant element in their communications.

    Nevertheless, I do find it worrying how an increasing number of people do appear to genuinely believe that the establishment somehow "has it in for them", and would instead turn to more populist causes with no real rational grounding
    They would be shocked if they could be a fly on the wall of a senior executive officer in, say, the Department of Health. We have a family friend who was health minister in Australia in the 1980s; he was from a more academic background and of course being in the Labor Party there were very strong pressures from the trade unions on a variety of policy matters. But he said when he got into office he said it is almost impossible to convey the enormity and anxiety around the sense of responsibility you feel when you become responsible for the health of 20 million people. It's a massive responsibility and most of the time, in Westminster systems, ministers are making technocratc rather than ideological decisions, They, and their civil servants, are working really hard to keep the wheels of government moving, to provide good services and stay under budget. Some people apparently assume it's really easy, but there are many countries and times when government services have broken down and they have found it almost impossible to get them moving again. On the surface government looks like it is gliding serenely like a duck and under the water it is paddling like mad.

    There are many decisions the government makes with which I disagree profoundly. But I do not doubt that pretty much everyone in politics is there because they have a political view and they believe the policies that attach to that view would be the best way to achieve the outcomes that every party ultimately wants (to increase the health, prosperity, peace etc of the country and its population). There have been some policy missteps, but objectively, to be born in England you are being born into a society that is one of the most prosperous, the most equal, the most peaceable, the least corrupt, the most compassionate, in history.

    There is very little corruption (compared to the 1700s when it was considered normal that the government minister in charge of paying the armed forces, the Paymaster-General, would take a substantial cut and that ministers would sell offices and give preferments to their friends). We have a court system that is widely accepted to be fair, impartial and free from corruption; you can sue a wealthy and powerful man and you can be fairly sure your case will be judged fairly and impartially. We do not have a police state, we do not have executions or judicial torture to extract confessions. We are not obligated to go to church (in this country people were, or they were fined, until a couple of hundred years ago). We don't have strange and frightening religious cults that have become so powerful that they take over cities (that too has happened in history). Almost everyone can read and write, everyone adult can vote, everyone gets a free education (or guaranteed loan) of a sort that would only be available to noblemen in the past. Our streets are clean, local governments repair roads and employ street sweepers and provide street lighting (people don't think about such things, but in 13th century London the streets were literally piled up with excrement from humans and animals, entrails and butcher's cast offs from carcasses, all sorts of waste (which just mushed down into the ground to become a sort of generalised filth that would freeze over in winter and then in summer cause an unbearable stench). If you are born disabled, you won't be cast off the Tarpeian rock but the state will help you with healthcare and support. If you are unemployed, the citizenry as a whole through the government will provide you an income and possibly housing until you can get back on your feet.

    It's hard to convey to the extremists and conspiracy mongers just how privileged they are, by historical standards, and that we have a legislature and indirectly government that is chosen by the people, and which works for the most part in the interests of the people. The civil servants manage all of the above things and keep the wheels turning, they keep our civilisation civilised.

    I do agree that our culture is becoming far too-PC, but some of the claims of these people are frankly ridiculous (such as the oh-so-popular Jewish conspiracy).
    Absolutely. I personally don't agree that you can be convicted of "religious hatred" for expressing an adverse opinion about the 7th century warlord. I think all too often people don't question certain assumptions. But overall things are good. I'm really concerned that views that you simply wouldn't see in the mainstream of either major party are now commonplace. But more than any particular theory or belief, I think it's the poisonous mindset. A Corbynite could just as easily have been a BNP member if they'd taken a different turn or made a slightly different assumption. That mindset has to be opposed, it would be great if someone could write a book about this phenomenon.
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    The conspiracist strain in politics has always been there; it's just that it hasn't manifested itself in popular outlets since the end of the Cold War due to the predominance of liberal-democratic forms of governance and the wide-scale support for and acceptability of centre-left to centre-right parties and the politics of the Third Way. Increased personal wealth and the transcending of previously restrictive social class molds were the hallmarks of the modern era of globalisation and Fukuyama's 'end of history' (where the march of history ends with all forms of government other than liberal democracy collapsing under the weight of their own inconsistencies) which lasted roughly from the collapse of the Soviet Union until, some would say, now. Now it looks as if the liberal-democratic European project is under threat, the United States' role as keeper of the peace in Europe and the Middle East is called into question by the Republican presidential nominee, and populism seems to grab the attention of the masses better than threatening that their wealth and social status will be affected by change, which no longer works as a threat for an entire class of people because they feel they have nothing more to lose. The blame for this can either be laid at the feet of global capital - which brought about the economic crash of 2008 - or at the internal inconsistencies within democratic societies (see Plato; this is old stuff). Or you can resort to the old trick of blaming foreign people - the poor, the dirty, the alien, the other. You are certainly on to something about the growth in the paranoid style though. I notice it in the creeping acceptability of Russian propaganda within far-left and far-right circles - people who decry every single mainstream publication and news agency in the Western media for only reporting 'what they want you to hear' ('they' usually being an unidentifiable cabal of rich media moguls and politicians who are all purported to hold similar views and vices on account of their wealth and influence), all the while lapping up whatever agitprop The Canary or Russia Today pump out.
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    Personally, I think the violent, lashing nature of the left is because they view everything as an existential threat. Every policy of (for example) a Conservative government is usually framed in the context of exterminating or destroying a particular class of people - be it the poor, disabled, minorities etc., and a particular motive is assigned to that - and the reaction is one of conflict and the promotion of a "war".

    The opposite isn't true, however. When there is a left leaning government, the right/centre/middle England generally view unwelcome policy as an inconvenience or a cost, rather than an attempt at social genocide.
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    I have nothing to add, but this was a very interesting post and I agree with your point of view entirely. I look forward to more, as well as reading the rest of this thread as it develops.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    What do you expect though? We live in an age where the "elites" as it were are facing difficult problems that have no easy answers. When faced with problems like constant working class unemployment, rising living costs and stagnant wages, the typical elites seem flummoxed. UKIP, Trump, the FNL and all the others are proposing easy, understandable solutions, all mixed in with the conspiracy narrative you have eloquently described, that appeals to voters as it puts the blame on someone else. The end of manufacturing jobs is not a hidden economic force, but the fault of corrupt politicians and foreigners. It is seductive.

    It is also a narrative that fits so easily into a tweet or (to use a historical term) a headline.
    Very well said, you hit on something I didn't think about but is even more at the heart of this issue.

    I mentioned the anecdote in the post above about my family friend who was health minister in Australia. He said that there are no easy decisions, no win-win choices. Every decision you make at that level affects something else, usually negatively. Everything you decide in terms of policy will have other consequences that then have to be dealt with. It's like a policy rubic's cube.

    When society gets to this level of complexity, there are no easy policies wins. All the low-hanging fruit went years ago. Any decision necessarily involves lengthy consideration and analysis, and defies simplistic "solutions" or platitudes.

    As you pointed out, the person offering the simple answer, who appeals to the prejudice "We've been sold out", who offers an easy solution to all of the issues ("Just vote for me") has an inherent rhetorical advantage over someone who says, "Well, it's complicated. On the one hand...."
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    I'm becoming completely sick and tired of the conspiracist, demagogic, pseudo-populist crap that has completely infected our politics, This mindset is particularly bad among the Corbynites and UKIP (and the latter is not a dig at everyone who voted Leave, I did so myself for reasons relating to democratic accountability), and the Trumpites, but it is starting to make itself felt in all areas.

    This mindset involves the automatic assumption that everything is a conspiracy, and everyone in any position of authority is part of it. It involves a complete contempt for any media organisation that fails to pander to their prejudices; you see it with Corbynites attacking the Guardian for reporting anything unfavourable to Corbyn; as though "It's my right not to have my views challenged; if you print something that contradicts what I believe, then you are completely corrupt."

    It involves complete contempt for any sort of experts, and the stance that their feelings override facts; that what they read on some conspiracy website trumps the opinion of people who are qualified to know whereof they speak. It involves a total scorn of all the advances (social, economic, political, technological) that our society has made in the last 150 years in favour of a default view that everything is ****, everything is corrupt, and "everyone is against me". You also find that people who hold these views end up sympathising with those whose political aims couldn't be more different; for example, UKIP supporters feeling very positive toward Corbyn, because they perceive him as being "against the establishment" and shares their hatred of Blair. It goes to support the "horseshoe" theory of politics; that the hard left and far right have more in common with each other than with their respective centre-left and centre-right brethren.

    These people are often extremely abusive on Twitter to anyone they perceive as being part of the establishment/Zionists/Blairites/neoliberals/lizard people (delete as appropriate). Any attempt to provide an earnest, well-thought out answer actually serves to encourage them as they sense that as weakness. Any citation of facts is simply ignored or met with "Well they would say that, wouldn't they". You can see this attitude in the Smith/Corbyn debate when Smith said things that were indisputably and demonstrably true, and the Corbyn supporters groaned and heckled and did this snide sort-of laugh.

    And that laugh speaks to a major element of this; the laugh says, "Oh I know the real truth. I know how things really work. I won't fall for your establishment 'facts'". This is the mindset they have; they invariably have an extremely obnoxious mentality based on their belief that they are really clever, that they've worked out how things truly work and anyone who disagrees is either stupid, malicious or part of the conspiracy.

    Finally, this mindset involves a foundational "betrayal myth". In 1920s and 1930s Germany the far-right parties developed what was called the "stab in the back" myth. It was a narrative that said that Germany wasn't truly defeated militarily, that they were winning the war but the Jews betrayed them. "Stab in the back" myths are prevalent in many groups in many societies, but they can be particularly pernicious as people start to believe that some conspiratorial group "sold us down the river". It elevates emotion over historical inquiry. And this is precisely the myth we are seeing develop on both the hard-left and hard-right. On the Corbynite left the "stab in the back" myth is that Blair betrayed the Labour movement, that everything was great before Blair and that he turned the Labour Party into a "Tory-lite" party. On the hard right, it involves a belief that politicians "sold us down the river" on immigration, that there was some conspiracy to "dilute the white race" or something equally inane.

    Unfortunately a worldview built around a perception of betrayal, rather than a positive vision of society, becomes a poison in the body politic. For the people who believe it, their driving motivation becomes anger, embitterment and revenge. And anyone who fails to sign up to that belief, or disagrees with their methods, immediately is believed to be an accomplice to the betrayal.

    This mindset, overall (as described in the whole post), is spreading like a toxin through our society, and it has unfortunately been turbocharged by the internet which allows people to create an echo chamber of similarly-minded extremists who all egg each other on and make them feel almost like they are part of a gang (which can be, for people who have psychological or emotional problems, very appealing). I believe the backlash against these people is coming; for all their claims of populist appeal, they are in fact still on the fringe. The vast majority of ordinary non-politically inclined voters still look to moderate centre-left and centre-right ideas as the way forward. But until the judgment of the people works its magic, the problem (and the people and their poisonous ideas) will continue to fester and putrify

    KimKallstrom JamesN88 KingBradly Good bloke L i b
    one of the best posts i have read on here in the last few years.
    TSR is obviously an exception to the general putridity of discourse on the interwebs

    :teehee: *
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    I'm becoming completely sick and tired of the conspiracist, demagogic, pseudo-populist crap that has completely infected our politics, This mindset is particularly bad among the Corbynites and UKIP (and the latter is not a dig at everyone who voted Leave, I did so myself for reasons relating to democratic accountability), and the Trumpites, but it is starting to make itself felt in all areas.

    This mindset involves the automatic assumption that everything is a conspiracy, and everyone in any position of authority is part of it. It involves a complete contempt for any media organisation that fails to pander to their prejudices; you see it with Corbynites attacking the Guardian for reporting anything unfavourable to Corbyn; as though "It's my right not to have my views challenged; if you print something that contradicts what I believe, then you are completely corrupt."

    It involves complete contempt for any sort of experts, and the stance that their feelings override facts; that what they read on some conspiracy website trumps the opinion of people who are qualified to know whereof they speak. It involves a total scorn of all the advances (social, economic, political, technological) that our society has made in the last 150 years in favour of a default view that everything is ****, everything is corrupt, and "everyone is against me". You also find that people who hold these views end up sympathising with those whose political aims couldn't be more different; for example, UKIP supporters feeling very positive toward Corbyn, because they perceive him as being "against the establishment" and shares their hatred of Blair. It goes to support the "horseshoe" theory of politics; that the hard left and far right have more in common with each other than with their respective centre-left and centre-right brethren.

    These people are often extremely abusive on Twitter to anyone they perceive as being part of the establishment/Zionists/Blairites/neoliberals/lizard people (delete as appropriate). Any attempt to provide an earnest, well-thought out answer actually serves to encourage them as they sense that as weakness. Any citation of facts is simply ignored or met with "Well they would say that, wouldn't they". You can see this attitude in the Smith/Corbyn debate when Smith said things that were indisputably and demonstrably true, and the Corbyn supporters groaned and heckled and did this snide sort-of laugh.

    And that laugh speaks to a major element of this; the laugh says, "Oh I know the real truth. I know how things really work. I won't fall for your establishment 'facts'". This is the mindset they have; they invariably have an extremely obnoxious mentality based on their belief that they are really clever, that they've worked out how things truly work and anyone who disagrees is either stupid, malicious or part of the conspiracy.

    Finally, this mindset involves a foundational "betrayal myth". In 1920s and 1930s Germany the far-right parties developed what was called the "stab in the back" myth. It was a narrative that said that Germany wasn't truly defeated militarily, that they were winning the war but the Jews betrayed them. "Stab in the back" myths are prevalent in many groups in many societies, but they can be particularly pernicious as people start to believe that some conspiratorial group "sold us down the river". It elevates emotion over historical inquiry. And this is precisely the myth we are seeing develop on both the hard-left and hard-right. On the Corbynite left the "stab in the back" myth is that Blair betrayed the Labour movement, that everything was great before Blair and that he turned the Labour Party into a "Tory-lite" party. On the hard right, it involves a belief that politicians "sold us down the river" on immigration, that there was some conspiracy to "dilute the white race" or something equally inane.

    Unfortunately a worldview built around a perception of betrayal, rather than a positive vision of society, becomes a poison in the body politic. For the people who believe it, their driving motivation becomes anger, embitterment and revenge. And anyone who fails to sign up to that belief, or disagrees with their methods, immediately is believed to be an accomplice to the betrayal.

    This mindset, overall (as described in the whole post), is spreading like a toxin through our society, and it has unfortunately been turbocharged by the internet which allows people to create an echo chamber of similarly-minded extremists who all egg each other on and make them feel almost like they are part of a gang (which can be, for people who have psychological or emotional problems, very appealing). I believe the backlash against these people is coming; for all their claims of populist appeal, they are in fact still on the fringe. The vast majority of ordinary non-politically inclined voters still look to moderate centre-left and centre-right ideas as the way forward. But until the judgment of the people works its magic, the problem (and the people and their poisonous ideas) will continue to fester and putrify

    KimKallstrom JamesN88 KingBradly Good bloke L i b
    This is one of the best posts I've ever read on this site. Very well-constructed. There isn't really anything I can add to it beside from just agreeing with everything you have just said.
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    (Original post by Ashnard)
    This is one of the best posts I've ever read on this site. Very well-constructed. There isn't really anything I can add to it beside from just agreeing with everything you have just said.
    (Original post by the bear)
    one of the best posts i have read on here in the last few years.
    TSR is obviously an exception to the general putridity of discourse on the interwebs

    :teehee: *

    Thanks guys! I almost feel a bit undeserving with all these very kind compliments about the post. Thank you very much though, I really do appreciate it.
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    I'm becoming completely sick and tired of the conspiracist, demagogic, pseudo-populist crap that has completely infected our politics, This mindset is particularly bad among the Corbynites and UKIP (and the latter is not a dig at everyone who voted Leave, I did so myself for reasons relating to democratic accountability), and the Trumpites, but it is starting to make itself felt in all areas.

    This mindset involves the automatic assumption that everything is a conspiracy, and everyone in any position of authority is part of it. It involves a complete contempt for any media organisation that fails to pander to their prejudices; you see it with Corbynites attacking the Guardian for reporting anything unfavourable to Corbyn; as though "It's my right not to have my views challenged; if you print something that contradicts what I believe, then you are completely corrupt."

    It involves complete contempt for any sort of experts, and the stance that their feelings override facts; that what they read on some conspiracy website trumps the opinion of people who are qualified to know whereof they speak. It involves a total scorn of all the advances (social, economic, political, technological) that our society has made in the last 150 years in favour of a default view that everything is ****, everything is corrupt, and "everyone is against me". You also find that people who hold these views end up sympathising with those whose political aims couldn't be more different; for example, UKIP supporters feeling very positive toward Corbyn, because they perceive him as being "against the establishment" and shares their hatred of Blair. It goes to support the "horseshoe" theory of politics; that the hard left and far right have more in common with each other than with their respective centre-left and centre-right brethren.

    These people are often extremely abusive on Twitter to anyone they perceive as being part of the establishment/Zionists/Blairites/neoliberals/lizard people (delete as appropriate). Any attempt to provide an earnest, well-thought out answer actually serves to encourage them as they sense that as weakness. Any citation of facts is simply ignored or met with "Well they would say that, wouldn't they". You can see this attitude in the Smith/Corbyn debate when Smith said things that were indisputably and demonstrably true, and the Corbyn supporters groaned and heckled and did this snide sort-of laugh.

    And that laugh speaks to a major element of this; the laugh says, "Oh I know the real truth. I know how things really work. I won't fall for your establishment 'facts'". This is the mindset they have; they invariably have an extremely obnoxious mentality based on their belief that they are really clever, that they've worked out how things truly work and anyone who disagrees is either stupid, malicious or part of the conspiracy.

    Finally, this mindset involves a foundational "betrayal myth". In 1920s and 1930s Germany the far-right parties developed what was called the "stab in the back" myth. It was a narrative that said that Germany wasn't truly defeated militarily, that they were winning the war but the Jews betrayed them. "Stab in the back" myths are prevalent in many groups in many societies, but they can be particularly pernicious as people start to believe that some conspiratorial group "sold us down the river". It elevates emotion over historical inquiry. And this is precisely the myth we are seeing develop on both the hard-left and hard-right. On the Corbynite left the "stab in the back" myth is that Blair betrayed the Labour movement, that everything was great before Blair and that he turned the Labour Party into a "Tory-lite" party. On the hard right, it involves a belief that politicians "sold us down the river" on immigration, that there was some conspiracy to "dilute the white race" or something equally inane.

    Unfortunately a worldview built around a perception of betrayal, rather than a positive vision of society, becomes a poison in the body politic. For the people who believe it, their driving motivation becomes anger, embitterment and revenge. And anyone who fails to sign up to that belief, or disagrees with their methods, immediately is believed to be an accomplice to the betrayal.

    This mindset, overall (as described in the whole post), is spreading like a toxin through our society, and it has unfortunately been turbocharged by the internet which allows people to create an echo chamber of similarly-minded extremists who all egg each other on and make them feel almost like they are part of a gang (which can be, for people who have psychological or emotional problems, very appealing). I believe the backlash against these people is coming; for all their claims of populist appeal, they are in fact still on the fringe. The vast majority of ordinary non-politically inclined voters still look to moderate centre-left and centre-right ideas as the way forward. But until the judgment of the people works its magic, the problem (and the people and their poisonous ideas) will continue to fester and putrify

    KimKallstrom JamesN88 KingBradly Good bloke L i b
    You've clearly been brainwashed by the establishment controlled mainstream media.

    I rely on RT for proper news.
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    Not much to add to the OP, but I certainly agree. Being fairly involved in the Scottish referendum was where I saw it first had: independent bodies (IFS, ONS, all those other abbreviations that Liam Fox so detests) were ridiculed while random conspiracy websites were being shared tens of thousands of times across social media, encouraged by actual politicians and campaigning groups.

    The dangers are enormous, but I think it's something implicit in human beings combined with the ability to share information (or indeed disinformation) quickly. What it usually conceals are unspoken, often unacceptable, motives - where false information is simply used to justify a position arrived at for other reasons.

    I think we have to stop taking on conspiracy theories when they arise and tackle them at source. Don't waste time tackling the detail of evidence, take on the motivations that lead people to these stances: usually xenophobia, alienation, jealousy or simply the fun of feeling rebellious when you are insulated from the effects of the ludicrous ideas you support.
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    It's just an attempt to shut down any sort of criticism perfectly demonstrated by the head of Vote Leave responding to any criticism with 'well you would say that wouldn't you?'

    And of course the shared ukip and Corbynite mentality that only they genuinley represent the people as a homogenous body everyone else is either a fascist blairite Zionist or Marxist infiltrator.



    The worst thing are the god awful similes which they seem to think makes them look clever and edgy I.E. 'BLiar' , 'Fib-dems' , 'Cuckservatives' etc- just screams edgy teenager looking for attention
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    Lastly, most of these conspiracy theorists see themselves as skeptics. A proper skeptic would be as skrpticskbof conspiracy theories as they would be if the MSM.

    Of course msm wants to try and manipulate you for their own interest. But do of course do conspiracist blogs - Alex Jones isn't exactly poor is he?
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    The EU is a threat to UK's democracy. Heres why:



    ^^ Nothing but facts. No conspiracy theories.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Lastly, most of these conspiracy theorists see themselves as skeptics. A proper skeptic would be as skrpticskbof conspiracy theories as they would be if the MSM.

    Of course msm wants to try and manipulate you for their own interest. But do of course do conspiracist blogs - Alex Jones isn't exactly poor is he?
    This, 100%. Conspiracy theorists are not sceptical, they're cynical and overly so. I can understand a degree of cynicism in this world, but they are cynical to a degree where they basically reject everything and then adopt this repellent attitude that somehow their uber-cynicism means they really know what's going on, that it means that they are the truly intelligent ones.
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    bush did 9/11
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    (Original post by fksociety)
    bush did 9/11
    Every awake person knows it was an inside job by the Lizard People, in alliance with the reverse vampires, under the overall control of the Queen.

    And if you don't agree with that, you're obviously part of the conspiracy too
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    (Original post by Naveed-7)
    The EU is a threat to UK's democracy. Heres why:

    ^^ Nothing but facts. No conspiracies.
    I agree the EU is injurious to the UK's democracy. That's why I voted leave.

    That doesn't justify the pathetic conspiracy mindset held by so many people on the hard left and far right
 
 
 
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