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Corbyn wins Labour leadership with 61.8% of vote Watch

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    It's hardly an overwhelming mandate. For someone who is so divisive, for someone who defends himself against criticism by claiming that he basically speaks for all the membership, the fact that almost 4 in 10 and 200,000 Labour members and supporters voted against him is a moral victory for Owen Smith.

    Corbyn's supporters said yesterday they expected him to get 75%. The fact that he only got 62% also means that previous Corbyn supporters must have turned against him (well, we already knew that but interesting to see the numbers).

    Watching Corbyn's speech after the result announcement was astonishing; he was lecturing the party on abuse and intimidation, saying "It's not my way, it's not the Labour way", as if he has some kind of huge moral authority on that subject, rather than having much to explain.

    For me, now, it's time for me to assess whether I can continue to stay in the party. Unless the moderates in parliament make some serious move to clip Corbyn's wings or get rid of him, I can no longer in good conscience stay in the party. The shrieking Momentum horde will of course say, "Good, go join the Conservatives you Red Tory scum". Well, if you can't win the vote of someone like me... a Labour member and former branch treasurer, a former trade union officer, someone who mostly agrees with Corbyn's ideas (if not implementation) on economic policy... then you just can't win, period. You simply can't win without people like me.
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    More of an overwhelming mandate than Brexit, especially considering that many Corbyn voters were not allowed to vote. It is a bit hypocritical of you to make blanket statements of Corbyn supporters for making abusive statements then doing the exact same thing. In my opinion all the moderates have done is undermine Labour even further and have nothing positive to show for it, if you are true moderates and dislike the way Labour is heading why not support the Liberal Democrats instead of just making sure if moderates can't have Labour nobody can?
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    It's hardly an overwhelming mandate. For someone who is so divisive, for someone who defends himself against criticism by claiming that he basically speaks for all the membership, the fact that almost 4 in 10 and 200,000 Labour members and supporters voted against him is a moral victory for Owen Smith.

    Corbyn's supporters said yesterday they expected him to get 75%. The fact that he only got 62% also means that previous Corbyn supporters must have turned against him (well, we already knew that but interesting to see the numbers).

    Watching Corbyn's speech after the result announcement was astonishing; he was lecturing the party on abuse and intimidation, saying "It's not my way, it's not the Labour way", as if he has some kind of huge moral authority on that subject, rather than having much to explain.

    For me, now, it's time for me to assess whether I can continue to stay in the party. Unless the moderates in parliament make some serious move to clip Corbyn's wings or get rid of him, I can no longer in good conscience stay in the party. The shrieking Momentum horde will of course say, "Good, go join the Conservatives you Red Tory scum". Well, if you can't win the vote of someone like me... a Labour member and former branch treasurer, a former trade union officer, someone who mostly agrees with Corbyn's ideas (if not implementation) on economic policy... then you just can't win, period. You simply can't win without people like me.
    AlexanderHam looking through your posts you seem to be the "abusive" one far more than any Corbyn supporter who replies to you. Do you do anything else with your time apart from posting "anti-Corbyn" threads? It seems like you make around an average of 5 threads a day on him.
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    This is quite heavy straw-clutching.

    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    Corbyn's supporters said yesterday they expected him to get 75%.
    No idea what random individual Corbyn supporters were saying on social media, but John McDonnell was in fact playing down expectations, saying he expected Corbyn to win but with a smaller percentage of the vote.

    The fact that he only got 62% also means that previous Corbyn supporters must have turned against him (well, we already knew that but interesting to see the numbers).
    In terms of both absolute votes, and percentage of votes, Corbyn performed better than he did a year ago. Ergo, he has gained supporters since then.

    Yes, of course there were some who supported Corbyn last year who didn't support him this time - according to the YouGov exit poll, roughly 12% of those who voted Corbyn last time voted for Smith this time. However, the same exit poll also indicated that 10% of those who voted Cooper and 25% of those who voted Burnham last year voted for Corbyn this time.
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    AlexanderHam
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    This was expected.
    I think if labour was truly serious of getting rid of Corbyn then a better candidate than Owen Smith would have stepped up to challenge him.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)


    AlexanderHam
    Every day when you shill for Corbyn, I struggle to understand how you haven't made the link between the direction of this country becoming ridiculously right-wing and the lack of credible opposition. Don't get me wrong, AlexanderHam's support of Owen Smith was totally misplaced given than he has no chance of winning an election and further to this, he's been campaigning on a platform where he presents himself as being the same as Corbyn, but not Corbyn or some other vague, uninspired nonsense.
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    (Original post by MagnetoWasRight)
    Every day when you shill for Corbyn, I struggle to understand how you haven't made the link between the direction of this country becoming ridiculously right-wing and the lack of credible opposition. Don't get me wrong, AlexanderHam's support of Owen Smith was totally misplaced given than he has no chance of winning an election and further to this, he's been campaigning on a platform where he presents himself as being the same as Corbyn, but not Corbyn or some other vague, uninspired nonsense.

    I thought the video was funny and AlexanderHam is easier to wind up than a windy thing.

    I'm no Corbyn trickster.

    Anyway the Conservatives have the centre ground. So who cares right? Mrs May gave a very labour like speech and Dan Hodge let us all know how Cameron adopted the nice cuddly centre ground. The system works. Who needs opposition?


    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    For me, now, it's time for me to assess whether I can continue to stay in the party. Unless the moderates in parliament make some serious move to clip Corbyn's wings or get rid of him, I can no longer in good conscience stay in the party. The shrieking Momentum horde will of course say, "Good, go join the Conservatives you Red Tory scum". Well, if you can't win the vote of someone like me... a Labour member and former branch treasurer, a former trade union officer, someone who mostly agrees with Corbyn's ideas (if not implementation) on economic policy... then you just can't win, period. You simply can't win without people like me.
    Can you also stop calling everyone a trot? If you mostly agree with Corbyn's ideas does that make you a Trotskyite? What are the transitional demands to the labour party should be making?
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    I thought the video was funny and AlexanderHam is easier to wind up than a windy thing :-/

    I'm no Corbyn trickster.
    The video was rather amusing and I played it through twice in fact.

    I would consider Theresa May to have been the first real Tory PM since Thatcher and there is no doubt in my mind that this has come about about in part due to the fact the Tories know they don't have to appeal to the pro-market left, because Corbyn has already vacated that area completely.
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    (Original post by MagnetoWasRight)
    The video was rather amusing and I played it through twice in fact.

    I would consider Theresa May to have been the first real Tory PM since Thatcher and there is no doubt in my mind that this has come about about in part due to the fact the Tories know they don't have to appeal to the pro-market left, because Corbyn has already vacated that area completely.
    Also who do you think I am and how much influence do you think I have? I'm not even a member of the Labour party and I have never voted for Corbyn.

    By pro-market I'm going to assume you blairite economics. Why exactly do I want May to have to appeal to the pro-market left as you put it?
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    (Original post by Scottish Person)
    More of an overwhelming mandate than Brexit, especially considering that many Corbyn voters were not allowed to vote. It is a bit hypocritical of you to make blanket statements of Corbyn supporters for making abusive statements then doing the exact same thing. In my opinion all the moderates have done is undermine Labour even further and have nothing positive to show for it, if you are true moderates and dislike the way Labour is heading why not support the Liberal Democrats instead of just making sure if moderates can't have Labour nobody can?
    An overwhelming mandate having been voted for by 62% of around 1%* of the UK population eligible to vote. And that presumably includes some Tories who paid £3 or £20 to help him.

    * I've used 45m in my calculation. See http://www.electoralcommission.org.u...-eu-referendum
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    (Original post by hollywoodbudgie)
    This was expected.
    I think if labour was truly serious of getting rid of Corbyn then a better candidate than Owen Smith would have stepped up to challenge him.
    I suspect many of the potential challengers knew that the infiltration by hard left members meant they had no chance of winning and wanted to keep their powder dry.

    Chuckus Yourmoney being a case in point when he withdrew the first time Corbyn got elected leader.
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    (Original post by viffer)
    I suspect many of the potential challengers knew that the infiltration by hard left members meant they had no chance of winning and wanted to keep their powder dry.

    Chuckus Yourmoney being a case in point when he withdrew the first time Corbyn got elected leader.
    Trying to lead Labour right now as a plausible party would be near-impossible right now. Until the virus that is Momentum is destroyed, it will continue to be so
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    (Original post by MagnetoWasRight)
    Every day when you shill for Corbyn, I struggle to understand how you haven't made the link between the direction of this country becoming ridiculously right-wing and the lack of credible opposition. Don't get me wrong, AlexanderHam's support of Owen Smith was totally misplaced given than he has no chance of winning an election and further to this, he's been campaigning on a platform where he presents himself as being the same as Corbyn, but not Corbyn or some other vague, uninspired nonsense.
    Where is the evidence for Owen Smith not being able to win an election? The polls show very clearly the opposite.

    And while Owen Smith wasn't my ideal candidate, he was the candidate that was standing. At this point anything would be better than a man who took £20,000 from a regime that lynches gay men from cranes. By failing to oppose Corbyn, by whatever means necessary, one makes a very clear statement about their moral values. Not doing anything is making a choice in favour of Corbyn.

    By the way, how did Owen Smith offer himself as being the same as Corbyn? Did you pay attention when he said he would retain Trident? That's a pretty big policy difference. There were many. On the economic issues, it's entirely natural Smith would have a left-wing platform; he is from the left of the party.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    I thought the video was funny and AlexanderHam is easier to wind up than a windy thing.
    ...

    Can you also stop calling everyone a trot?
    :lol: A bit touchy, aren't we? Do you deny there are many Momentum members who are Trots? If anything Milne is a Stalinist; he has repeatedly expressed his admiration for the mass murderer.
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    It's hardly an overwhelming mandate. For someone who is so divisive, for someone who defends himself against criticism by claiming that he basically speaks for all the membership, the fact that almost 4 in 10 and 200,000 Labour members and supporters voted against him is a moral victory for Owen Smith.

    Corbyn's supporters said yesterday they expected him to get 75%. The fact that he only got 62% also means that previous Corbyn supporters must have turned against him (well, we already knew that but interesting to see the numbers).

    Watching Corbyn's speech after the result announcement was astonishing; he was lecturing the party on abuse and intimidation, saying "It's not my way, it's not the Labour way", as if he has some kind of huge moral authority on that subject, rather than having much to explain.

    For me, now, it's time for me to assess whether I can continue to stay in the party. Unless the moderates in parliament make some serious move to clip Corbyn's wings or get rid of him, I can no longer in good conscience stay in the party. The shrieking Momentum horde will of course say, "Good, go join the Conservatives you Red Tory scum". Well, if you can't win the vote of someone like me... a Labour member and former branch treasurer, a former trade union officer, someone who mostly agrees with Corbyn's ideas (if not implementation) on economic policy... then you just can't win, period. You simply can't win without people like me.
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    (Original post by Eulers_)
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    Sorry mate, I don't interact with people who are incapable of expressing themselves in words. If you want to join the debate, feel free to make a post and I will respond if it's remotely intelligent and/or relevant.
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    Sorry mate, I don't interact with people who are incapable of expressing themselves in words. If you want to join the debate, feel free to make a post and I will respond if it's remotely intelligent and/or relevant.
    And why should anyone interact with someone who is only capable of insulting the other user when they get down to the bedrock of your argument.
    Corbyn won, with an impressive majority. Give him a chance and stop plucking feathers which are either untrue or unfair. I'm not sure what you personally have against him, but that's no excuse to go around spamming lies about how his Shadow Chancellor wanted someone dead or any other nonsense.
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    (Original post by Eulers_)
    And why should anyone interact with someone who is only capable of insulting the other user when they get down to the bedrock of your argument.
    A picture of Jezbollah with the words "You mad?" isn't even an argument, let alone getting to the bedrock of one.


    Corbyn won, with an impressive majority. Give him a chance
    We did give him a chance. He was given a whole year to get his **** together. In that time he demonstrated he was totally incapable of doing so, on many occasions; the three week reshuffle, his decision to sign up to Osborne's austerity pact, his continued association with the extremist Stop the War Coalition, his inability to get any sort of handle on the anti-semitism problem and the fact that in 9 months betwen his ascension to the leadership and the Smith challenge, he developed almost no policies at all (which is why respected economic advisors like Danny Blanchflower and Simon Wren-Lewis who agreed to serve on his council of economic advisors resigned and supported Owen Smith on the basis that Corbyn hadn't bothered to really come up with any policy in that time).

    These are valid criticisms, and they are valid reasons to want Corbyn to step down from the leadership. After Corbyn won the first time around, I hadn't supported him but after I saw his and McDonnell's first interviews, I thought, "Yeah, that's no so bad. Maybe I can get behind him". But pretty much everything he has done, and failed to do, since then has confirmed my original judgment. He is no leader, he is temperamentally unsuited to high office.

    And this is about more than just one man; Corbyn is not more important than the party. If the party goes into the next election led by Corbyn, a man who praised and supported the IRA, a man who took £20,000 from a regime that lynches gay men from cranes as payment to shill for them on TV, a man who wants to give up the Falklands Islands against the wishes of the islanders themselves, the Labour Party will be screwed. Corbyn is fundamentally unelectable, he's barely even begun to be seriously scrutinised and tested. When the general election starts, that's when the real scrutiny on his friendships and associations with fascist and anti-semites, his business deals with murderers, will come to the fore. And the British people won't like it.

    I'm not sure what you personally have against him
    Aside from the fact that he's destroying a once great party, that he is allowing a personality cult to take hold in the party, that he has created an atmosphere of abuse, vilification and threat of violence that never existed in the party before (such that Ruth Smeeth had to be taken into police protection, Yvette Cooper was threatened with beheading)... aside from his incompetence and unfitness to lead the party, and his total lack of leadership skills and ability to persuade and bring people along with him... aside from these things, I fundamentally object to his immorality. He's a man who accepted £20,000 from a regime that murders gay people, to shill for them on their propaganda network (a propaganda network that was banned in the UK for its involvement in filming the torture of a journalist). I don't see how that can be defended. It can't except with the most nauseating exhibition of moral "flexibility". He's a man who has this affectation of Saint Jeremy, he believes himself to be utterly moral and untainted, and yet he does things like taking expensive gifts from oil industry lobbyists and, as mentioned above, money from fascist murderers.

    So it works on two levels; I dislike him because he is fundamentally unlikable and hypocritical (his position on loyalty being merely one of many hypocrisies), And that simply dovetails with the fact that he is unelectable, that he will drag the Labour Party down with him, and that will hurt many people who need a Labour government to look after their interests.
 
 
 
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