How many years until swathes of society stop butchering the topic of gender equality?

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    So many people for so many years fail to grasp some basic points on discrimination so lets come at this from a different angle...

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    Men on average die younger than women.

    Overall male medical research is not funded to the extent female research is.

    Men have traditionally been sent/forced into war zones where their lives are put in danger more often than women.

    In certain cases mens lives are treated as less important than womens, 'women and children first in the metaphorical sinking ship scenario'.

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    I could give it more thought and come up with better examples but that is besides the point.

    I actually label myself as someone who very strongly advocates equality in society or at least 'equality of opportunity' in the majority of situations. I have problems with equality of outcome as I feel this can actually encourage discrimination.

    So as a male who believes in equality do I want to see 'men's groups' fight for the rights of men in relation to the above causes? Well, no! Categorically and unequivocally NO! Do I want to see 'Men's groups' fight for the huge numbers of men whom experience domestic abuse? Again, absolutely not!

    I would love to see the issue of equality not being hijacked by certain groups.

    The path to a much more utopian situation in relation to equality is for certain groups to stop shouting so loudly about the rights of particular groups based on their gender, sexuality, race etc.

    Equality should be about people being afforded the same chances REGARDLESS of their gender, race, sexuality etc etc. Keeping banging the drum for only certain genders, races or people of certain sexual persuasions only highlights these differences.

    The solution is quite simply, at least IMO...

    Tolerance! Surely an approach which demonises discrimination of people based on variations which are outside their control (gender, race and sexual persuasion) would be a more fruitful endeavour. All the hype about domestic violence against women is wrong while there are also men experiencing these issues. While there are nephews, neices, fathers, mothers, lodgers, daughters, sons etc etc experiencing domestic violence. Even if women face higher amounts of domestic violence (although this point is debatable based on where you gather your statistic), tackling domestic violence against women, coming up with legislation to protect women, having public initiatives to protect women, all miss a demographic of people affected by domestic violence.

    This is would be fair enough if there were no alternatives but there are, and they are blindingly simple. Encourage all these legislative measures, initiatives to send a clear message that "DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AGAINST ANYONE IS WRONG". It doesn't matter if they are men, women or children, it is just wrong and society will not tolerate it.

    On general issues, it is such a clearer message to say discrimination against anyone, not just a particular gender (women) is wrong!

    Leaving a gender out of the equation when trying to achieve gender equality is quite simply illogical and stupid and is unlikely to be an approach which achieves equality for all.

    I even read a post by someone today saying that 1st and 2nd wave feminism actually did fight for equality but 3rd wave does not. This simply is not true! 1st and 2nd wave feminism fought for the rights of 1 group, nothing more nothing less. The majority were not fighting for everyone to have the vote, just women. There were other groups who had inferior voting rights. Even then, an individual seeking true non discriminatory equality could quite easily have fought for all groups to have the vote (blacks, certain age groups, certain types of workers/races/citizens).

    Again, I do not want 'men's groups' making sure that men do not get shafted in certain areas of society and to try and dress it up as an overall 'push for equality' so please stop doing it with feminism.

    If we really want equality and people not to be discriminated against on the basis of gender, race, sexuality etc then lets simply send out a message of 'tolerance of difference'. Accept that individuals are diverse, celebrate the differences as it means we are not all bland clones, give everyone a fair crack at the world and shun PEOPLE who are discriminatory towards other PEOPLE.

    It really isn't rocket science.
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    (Original post by Reason and Logic)
    So many people for so many years fail to grasp some basic points on discrimination so lets come at this from a different angle...

    ******************************** ****************

    Men on average die younger than women.

    Overall male medical research is not funded to the extent female research is.

    Men have traditionally been sent/forced into war zones where their lives are put in danger more often than women.

    In certain cases mens lives are treated as less important than womens, 'women and children first in the metaphorical sinking ship scenario'.

    ******************************** ******************

    I could give it more thought and come up with better examples but that is besides the point.

    I actually label myself as someone who very strongly advocates equality in society or at least 'equality of opportunity' in the majority of situations. I have problems with equality of outcome as I feel this can actually encourage discrimination.

    So as a male who believes in equality do I want to see 'men's groups' fight for the rights of men in relation to the above causes? Well, no! Categorically and unequivocally NO! Do I want to see 'Men's groups' fight for the huge numbers of men whom experience domestic abuse? Again, absolutely not!

    I would love to see the issue of equality not being hijacked by certain groups.

    The path to a much more utopian situation in relation to equality is for certain groups to stop shouting so loudly about the rights of particular groups based on their gender, sexuality, race etc.

    Equality should be about people being afforded the same chances REGARDLESS of their gender, race, sexuality etc etc. Keeping banging the drum for only certain genders, races or people of certain sexual persuasions only highlights these differences.

    The solution is quite simply, at least IMO...

    Tolerance! Surely an approach which demonises discrimination of people based on variations which are outside their control (gender, race and sexual persuasion) would be a more fruitful endeavour. All the hype about domestic violence against women is wrong while there are also men experiencing these issues. While there are nephews, neices, fathers, mothers, lodgers, daughters, sons etc etc experiencing domestic violence. Even if women face higher amounts of domestic violence (although this point is debatable based on where you gather your statistic), tackling domestic violence against women, coming up with legislation to protect women, having public initiatives to protect women, all miss a demographic of people affected by domestic violence.

    This is would be fair enough if there were no alternatives but there are, and they are blindingly simple. Encourage all these legislative measures, initiatives to send a clear message that "DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AGAINST ANYONE IS WRONG". It doesn't matter if they are men, women or children, it is just wrong and society will not tolerate it.

    On general issues, it is such a clearer message to say discrimination against anyone, not just a particular gender (women) is wrong!

    Leaving a gender out of the equation when trying to achieve gender equality is quite simply illogical and stupid and is unlikely to be an approach which achieves equality for all.

    I even read a post by someone today saying that 1st and 2nd wave feminism actually did fight for equality but 3rd wave does not. This simply is not true! 1st and 2nd wave feminism fought for the rights of 1 group, nothing more nothing less. The majority were not fighting for everyone to have the vote, just women. There were other groups who had inferior voting rights. Even then, an individual seeking true non discriminatory equality could quite easily have fought for all groups to have the vote (blacks, certain age groups, certain types of workers/races/citizens).

    Again, I do not want 'men's groups' making sure that men do not get shafted in certain areas of society and to try and dress it up as an overall 'push for equality' so please stop doing it with feminism.

    If we really want equality and people not to be discriminated against on the basis of gender, race, sexuality etc then lets simply send out a message of 'tolerance of difference'. Accept that individuals are diverse, celebrate the differences as it means we are not all bland clones, give everyone a fair crack at the world and shun PEOPLE who are discriminatory towards other PEOPLE.

    It really isn't rocket science.
    Your ideas are too logical though aren't they?

    One problem is that a lot of people are often like a herd, all following other similar people and reacting in strong defence when one of their own is attacked. Someone outside the heard? "Well it doesn't effect me...I can't relate to that person, she's a woman and I'm a man, or they have different coloured skin, there's no obvious similarity." An obvious visual thing that people can jump on and "relate to."

    But you can also say...people outside those groups are often completely indifferent to the problems of these groups as it doesn't effect them. Why should they advocate for change when it doesn't benefit them? They're the majority. So the groups have to make their voices heard loud and prominent for anyone else to actually bother to listen and take action. Often the majority won't do anything unless something shocking happens in the media.

    The overarching problem for all is indifference...and selfishness. "It doesn't effect me." This is a human problem...
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    People do like to defend their own group of friends, regardless of damage done to other groups. Collecting all human beings together as one collective group in order to fight for equal rights in a general sense cannot really work simply because the experiences and perceptions regarding inequality differ wildly and can be inherently contradictory. I spotted an example of this whilst watching Have I Got News For You, feminist comedian Sara Pascoe pointed out the studies which suggest that men and women have very little difference in their brain structure, the only studies which make mainstream news were those which fulfil pre-existing prejudices. There does appear to be some truth to her claims, but does this mean that there is no such thing as female/male brains, and if so what does that mean for the trans community? The suggestion Sara makes is pro-gender equality but, to some extent, anti-trans as it belittles their self-identity.

    It's easy to fight in your corner but when everyone does this they reject the views, experience and indeed the data presented by other groups. There are so many studies that everyone can find studies which reinforce there own views, no matter what those views may be.
 
 
 
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