2 years in the military for all 16 year old boys? Watch

Kolya
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#161
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#161
It would require an extraordinarily strong argument for me to be convinced that it was right that I should have taken two years out of my formal education to undertake compulsory military service. I cannot find any scrap of such an argument on this thread.
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Apagg
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#162
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(Original post by CoolSocks)
With respect, I don't think I ever claimed that Arts subjects were inferior to the sciences or that my opinions were fact.
When somebody makes a claim (that Arts are not beneficial to the economy) without backing it with actual evidence, that is presenting a prejudice as fact.
When someone advocates less of something and more of another, it may be deduced that the person believes the former to be less desirable than the latter.
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Changeling
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#163
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#163
And course material can still be used in the job in an indirect way, i.e. a History Grad might not be writing essays about 17th Century France, but the concepts they learn would benefit the decisions they make in their occupation. I'm sure you don't use all the course material from your science degree directly either. Every job requires you to make a translation from the academic raw information/skills you attained at university, to useful output. This process may seem more apparent in science degrees because well, you can still use that formula you learnt back in uni. But what you're forgetting is that little bit of memory work means nothing, what you're really using is all the concepts and theories behind the formula you learnt. As such you may not be using the remembered facts from your History Degree, but those are inconsequential for Sciences as well as Arts. The important concepts and theories you learned are what are applied, and this occurs for both science and art majors.
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CoolSocks
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#164
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(Original post by Apagg)
When somebody makes a claim (that Arts are not beneficial to the economy) without backing it with actual evidence, that is presenting a prejudice as fact.
When someone advocates less of something and more of another, it may be deduced that the person believes the former to be less desirable than the latter.
I'm sorry, I take back what I said. It was an unfounded prejudice that I am unable to back up with evidence.
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Square
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#165
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#165
Notice Feminists don't complain when being female excludes them from the possibility of National Service.
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amjw
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#166
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#166
Absolutely not.

There are many female chavs as well - although i guess in the misandristic world we currently live in people conveniently overlook that fact...

(Original post by Square)
Notice Feminists don't complain when being female excludes them from the possibility of National Service.
lol reminds me of a situation i found on the net:

'Feminist: I'm a strong, proud woman and I am independent!
Waiter: Here's the cheque
Feminist: *silence*
Man: You were saying?'
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Apagg
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#167
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#167
(Original post by Square)
Notice Feminists don't complain when being female excludes them from the possibility of National Service.
That's not entirely true, there's a fair bit of pressure from some feminists to allow greater female representation in the forces
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amjw
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#168
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#168
(Original post by Apagg)
That's not entirely true, there's a fair bit of pressure from some feminists to allow greater female representation in the forces
but there's a big difference between that and compulsary service...
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Apagg
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#169
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#169
(Original post by riux)
but there's a big difference between that and compulsary service...
Yes, but where were you expecting a clamour from feminists for compulsory service to arise? TSR? Given the lack of a national debate on this topic, the fact that TSR is non representative of the feminist movement, and that feminists have argued for greater female representation in the armed forces, your claim about feminists and the national service seems unfounded and slightly silly.
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amjw
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#170
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(Original post by Apagg)
but where were you expecting a clamour from feminists for compulsory service to arise? TSR? Given the lack of a national debate on this topic, the fact that TSR is non representative of the feminist movement
as a whole TSR doesn't represent the feminist movement - but there are feminist members

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=141525

sure it's an old thread - but members do still exist - even in dnd...

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=212367

(Original post by Apagg)
and that feminists have argued for greater female representation in the armed forces
yet again - there is a big difference between arguing for greater female representation in the armed forces and being told that they MUST take part - if the situation was the latter one, i'd imagine the feminist movement would complain...

...which is slightly hypocritical tbh - since they constantly claim to argue for 'equal rights' when we have yet to see an argument for compulsary service for females (which would fulfill their desire to be 'equal') by a feminist on this thread. and as those two links show - feminists do exist on TSR...
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Apagg
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#171
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#171
You're making the assumption that they'd be for compulsory male service and against compulsory female service, when you surely know nothing of the sort. So there's no hypocrisy at all.

This is not to mention the fact that national service is being suggested here as a remedy to the increasing level of crime committed by 16-18 year olds, and I think you'll find violent crime is still predominantly committed by males.
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amjw
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#172
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(Original post by Apagg)
You're making the assumption that they'd be for compulsory male service and against compulsory female service, when you surely know nothing of the sort. So there's no hypocrisy at all.

This is not to mention the fact that national service is being suggested here as a remedy to the increasing level of crime committed by 16-18 year olds, and I think you'll find violent crime is still predominantly committed by males.
then why should ALL 16 year old boys do military training? - and miss out on 2 years of education? these male thugs still represent a minority of males in the country yet it is being suggested that ALL 16 year old boys should do military service.

punishing the majority for the actions of the minority is never good...

and even though violent crime is predominantly commited by males - females do still commit it...yet no one has even addressed this point and made a similar proposition to send ALL 16 year old girls to military training.

and the op certainly seemed to be prejudice against men by suggesting that ALL 16 year old boys should go to military training - and completely failing to address the fact that violent crime is still commited by girls as well, albeit a lower proportion.

but ok - perhaps she's more of a radical feminist than the majority so i'll step down there...

edit: btw that's assuming the op is a girl...
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Apagg
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#173
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(Original post by riux)
then why should ALL 16 year old boys do military training? - and miss out on 2 years of education? these male thugs still represent a minority of males in the country yet it is being suggested that ALL 16 year old boys should do military service.

punishing the majority for the actions of the minority is never good...

and even though violent crime is predominantly commited by males - females do still commit it...yet no one has even addressed this point and made a similar proposition to send ALL 16 year old girls to military training.

and the op certainly seemed to be prejudice against men by suggesting that ALL 16 year old boys should go to military training - and completely failing to address the fact that violent crime is still commited by girls as well, albeit a lower proportion.

but ok - perhaps she's more of a radical feminist than the majority so i'll step down there...

edit: btw that's assuming the op is a girl...
I didn't say all 16 year old boys should. Nor did any feminist, I believe. As you note, we've no idea the gender or ideological persuasion of the OP, so speculation on that score is pointless. So stop throwing accusations around about feminists.
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Skeve
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#174
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#174
Hahahahaha what a stupid idea. Unless you limit it to just Great Britain. The thread starter did not say what country was being referred to. If you tried to make Northern Irish youths join the army, Westminster would be bombed before you know it. There will never ever be national service in the UK, until the definition of the UK is changed.
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Jossyboy45
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#175
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#175
I think national service could benefit all people. It would certainly teach many people how to cope in a difficult situation or when under pressure. Today's society is under plenty of stress: The pace of life has increased, and the competitiveness of the job and financial markets means climbing the greasy pole is more and more difficult. Perhaps national service would equip males with the right skills to be able to optmise their potentials.
Having said that, I am not sure how it would benefit these so-called 'chavs'. How many of them are given police cautions, asbos, short prison sentences in tough conditions etc etc? Yet how many actually succeed in not reoffending? How would this country - which does not have a particularly tough stance on the 'B'-grade crimes - help put such people in line? Also, from an economical point of view, the administration and tax costs would be greatly increased.
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Astor
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#176
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#176
Well over a year on, I admit my earlier opinions were off.
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UGeNe
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#177
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#177
Army should be 2 years monday to friday like in Cyprus.

2 days per week for sex, drugs and clubbing.
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Double Agent
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#178
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#178
I hate the way people suggest this sort of idea, treating the forces as some sort of prison system for the uneducated and unruly. Its full of highly trained professionals, and isnt a dumping ground for problem youths. Sort out the reasons behind the problems.
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Pocket Calculator
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#179
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#179
would be good in terms of teaching discipline, respect and whatnot. but i really don't see why people should be expected to fight for a country just because they were born in it.
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Pocket Calculator
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#180
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#180
(Original post by UGeNe)
Army should be 2 years monday to friday like in Cyprus.

2 days per week for sex, drugs and clubbing.
my university's crawling with cypriots, draft dodging is pretty much the only reason they're here.....
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