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Labour suspends Jackie Walker over Holocaust comments Watch

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    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...caust-comments
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    hmmm....

    I would have thought all the people devoting so much time to pointing out internal Labour antisemitism with the sincere aim of ridding the left of antisemitism (I'm sure no one has a cynical motive at all) would have something to say to this news.
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    Probably since it proves nothing. A literal nobody gets fired and somehow that proves Labour isn't anti-semitic? Also, Guardian, lmao.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    hmmm....

    I would have thought all the people devoting so much time to pointing out internal Labour antisemitism with the sincere aim of ridding the left of antisemitism (I'm sure no one has a cynical motive at all) would have something to say to this news.
    I mentioned it in another thread. But yeah, you know it's bad when you're too Momentum for Momentum.......
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    It's political correctness gone mad!
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    It's political correctness gone mad!
    Political correctness is a necessary tool. Without it the goyim would work out what we're doing!


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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    I mentioned it in another thread. But yeah, you know it's bad when you're too Momentum for Momentum.......
    Figures. Kicking out an anti-semite is further proof of Momentum's anti-Semitism lol
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Figures. Kicking out an anti-semite is further proof of Momentum's anti-Semitism lol
    The fact she was Vice-Chair in the first-place (and was allowed to continue as such even after she had said many racist things) is the telling fact in this situation.

    Anti-semites are attracted to Momentum like flies to ****. In my area, the new Momentum head honcho is a guy that we Labour people had known for years as an anti-semitic conspiracy monger. He ran for election as an independent after he found people were unwilling to follow him as some kind of prophet, and in that election made the most outrageous conspiracy accusations and racially-charged comments imaginable.

    He is an unbalanced man who believes that everyone is conspiring against him, along with various other claims about the Rothschilds and the Protocol of the Elders of Zion and suchlike. But to the local Momentum crowd, he strikes them as someone who "really knows the truth". People like him seem to do very well in Momentum, thank you very much
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Figures. Kicking out an anti-semite is further proof of Momentum's anti-Semitism lol
    Have you noticed that anti-semitism is the worst possible 'ism. What about stamping out anti-whiteness, like a Harvard professor who says that whiteness is evil?

    Are you all completely and irreversibly brainwashed to be unable to see these contradictions?


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    (Original post by Lollypop100)
    Have you noticed that anti-semitism is the worst possible 'ism.
    Who has claimed it is the "worst possible 'ism"? It's not a competition. But yes, anti-semitism is taken extremely seriously given it was in living memory that 6 million Jews were wiped out. Anti-semitism has been a resillient and persistent form of prejudice, and the Jews have suffered terribly because of it.

    It is right and proper that we take these things seriously. Don't you think it should be? Do you think anti-semitism is really a thing?

    What about stamping out anti-whiteness, like a Harvard professor who says that whiteness is evil?
    How are we responsible in this country for something that happens in America? Even if there are people who are prejudiced against white people, racist even, as a matter of practical reality, very few to no people suffer from detriments or discrimination because they happen to be white.

    But even so, has anyone accused Momentum of being prejudiced against white people? I don't see how that could be the case given it is run and owned (yes owned, it is not a party or a club association, it is a private company with one shareholder; Jon Lansman) by white men. In any case, maybe if such an accusation is made, we can deal with it but until then it just seems like whataboutery. Is there a reason you don't want anti-semitism to be dealt with?
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    Who has claimed it is the "worst possible 'ism"? It's not a competition. But yes, anti-semitism is taken extremely seriously given it was in living memory that 6 million Jews were wiped out. Anti-semitism has been a resillient and persistent form of prejudice, and the Jews have suffered terribly because of it.

    It is right and proper that we take these things seriously. Don't you think it should be? Do you think anti-semitism is really a thing?



    How are we responsible in this country for something that happens in America? Even if there are people who are prejudiced against white people, racist even, as a matter of practical reality, very few to no people suffer from detriments or discrimination because they happen to be white.

    But even so, has anyone accused Momentum of being prejudiced against white people? I don't see how that could be the case given it is run and owned (yes owned, it is not a party or a club association, it is a private company with one shareholder; Jon Lansman) by white men. In any case, maybe if such an accusation is made, we can deal with it but until then it just seems like whataboutery. Is there a reason you don't want anti-semitism to be dealt with?
    The politically correct construct itself encourages bashing white people, males, Christians, bankers etc. It is part and parcel of the way people who use this system think and talk every day.

    For example China Airlines was admonished for urging caution in Black and Asian areas of London but it is commonplace to urge females to be cautious around males. Or Donald Trump was almost banned for entering the UK by the state for slightly nationalist shaded views whereas rampant extreme Ethiopian nationalist Haile Selassie is worshiped as an iconic figure.

    The entire construct that is in people's brains is mush.


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    (Original post by Lollypop100)
    For example China Airlines was admonished for urging caution in Black and Asian areas of London but it is commonplace to urge females to be cautious around males. Or Donald Trump was almost banned for entering the UK by the state for slightly nationalist shaded views
    Donald Trump was not banned from entering the UK. Some people proposed it, but no banning order was made.

    In any case, what does any of that have to do with Momentum? The fact that there are things happening in society that you disagree with is not permission to therefore dismiss all other matters where someone isn't talking about your pet issue.

    Momentum has an anti-semitism problem. Why are you against people criticising them for that? Just because you criticise one thing doesn't mean you are therefore saying anything that isn't that thing is therefore okay. All that's happening is a criticism, people are allowed to talk about a particular subject without having "whatabout this, whatabout that" constantly thrown into it in an irrelevant manner.

    I also note you did not answer, do you think anti-semitism is real? Do you believe it is okay to be prejudiced against Jews?
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    Donald Trump was not banned from entering the UK. Some people proposed it, but no banning order was made.

    In any case, what does any of that have to do with Momentum? The fact that there are things happening in society that you disagree with is not permission to therefore dismiss all other matters where someone isn't talking about your pet issue.

    Momentum has an anti-semitism problem. Why are you against people criticising them for that? Just because you criticise one thing doesn't mean you are therefore saying anything that isn't that thing is therefore okay. All that's happening is a criticism, people are allowed to talk about a particular subject without having "whatabout this, whatabout that" constantly thrown into it in an irrelevant manner.

    I also note you did not answer, do you think anti-semitism is real? Do you believe it is okay to be prejudiced against Jews?
    I think all criticism of any individual or group is fair game.

    Political correctness says that's any and all criticism of Jews is not allowed and is not legitimate but at the same time criticism of other groups like men is not only allowed but encouraged.

    Anti-semitism is just used to mean any criticism of Jews whether correct in its content or not. The same way anti-feminist means any criticism of women / feminist whether true or not.

    Criticism of an individual or group may be ill conceived or inaccurate but it's for free and fair debate to determine this not censorship, propaganda or brainwashing causing "triggering" in people and therefore a need for a "safe space" like Labour is trying to create 😂😂😂 by throwing out people who say things the Jews don't like.

    These terms are invented as masks to stop legitimate debate and silence people according to an agenda. And it's this that is extremely sinister, not the masks they try and put on people who disagree with this censorship, propaganda and brainwashing e.g. Using Ad Hominems like "Nazi" which Labour people typically do.

    It seems most people regardless of how smart they are can't question their own brainwashing.

    This post trumps national policy used in government, civil service, mass media, education etc. because it wins the argument yet people will let faulty logic continue. That is very very shameful and this post should be immediately taken on board to reshape national policy.
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    (Original post by Lollypop100)
    Or Donald Trump was almost banned for entering the UK by the state for slightly nationalist shaded views whereas rampant extreme Ethiopian nationalist Haile Selassie is worshiped as an iconic figure.
    Sorry, apart from the few thousands Rastafaris in the country, who in the UK 'worships' Haile Selassie? Also, while many very harsh critical assessments could certainly be made of the man, "extreme Ethiopian nationalist" generally isn't one of them.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Sorry, apart from the few thousands Rastafaris in the country, who in the UK 'worships' Haile Selassie? Also, while many very harsh critical assessments could certainly be made of the man, "extreme Ethiopian nationalist" generally isn't one of them.
    Many white teenagers / trendies / liberals idolise Haile Selassie, Bob Marley, Nelson Mandela etc. who advocated for various black peoples and at the same time those same people are prejudged against anyone who advocates for white people.


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    (Original post by Lollypop100)
    Many white teenagers / trendies / liberals idolise Haile Selassie, Bob Marley, Nelson Mandela etc. who advocated for various black peoples and at the same time those same people are prejudged against anyone who advocates for white people.
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    1. No, I still don't think there are significant numbers of white people in the UK who idolise Haile Selassie, and I really don't know where you're getting this from. The closest I've seen to it is some pictures of him at Reggae/Rasta music events. He's an iconic figure in some pan-Africanist movements, sure, but those movements are overwhelmingly black.

    2. "Advocated for" is an almost meaninglessly broad and generic term. It could include wildly different viewpoints and movements.

    3. An example of 2: you characterise Mandela as "advocating for black people". Yet Mandela was actually part of an explicitly multi-racial movement against apartheid. Of Mandela's 9 co-defendants at the famous Rivonia Trial, 4 were black, 3 were white, one was mixed-race, and one an Indian South African. Yes, the majority of the ANC were black, as the majority of South Africans are black, and black people had the most to gain in terms of civil and political rights from the end of apartheid. But the movement was never just about black people, but about equality and rights.
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    (Original post by Lollypop100)
    What about stamping out anti-whiteness, like a Harvard professor who says that whiteness is evil?

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    What Harvard professor? Or is this just hypothetical?

    My bet is you're probably referring to Noel Ignatiev.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Figures. Kicking out an anti-semite is further proof of Momentum's anti-Semitism lol
    She has not been kicked out. She has been suspended until Shami Chakrabarti returns the whitewash brush to Jeremy Corbyn, who will pass it on to Momentum HQ so they can carry out an inquiry and reinstate her.
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    Who has claimed it is the "worst possible 'ism"? It's not a competition. But yes, anti-semitism is taken extremely seriously given it was in living memory that 6 million Jews were wiped out. Anti-semitism has been a resillient and persistent form of prejudice, and the Jews have suffered terribly because of it.
    It is right and proper that we take these things seriously. Don't you think it should be? Do you think anti-semitism is really a thing?
    What Jackie Walker (a Jew married to a Jew) was doing at the meeting, was trying to get the Jewish Labour Movement to clarify their definition of anti-Semitic, as it seemed to her to include people who spoke out against the actions of Israel, rather than just those who discriminate or insult Jews for their ethnicity. This is an important distinction for Momentum, as some prominent members of the Jewish Labour Movement oppose Corbyn for his support of Palestinians against oppression and attacks by Israel.
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    OK, having finally watched the video, I'm not seeing much. There was a much, much stronger case that the slave trade comments that led to her previous suspension were anti-semitic than anything she's said here.

    Walker and some others who have written pieces in her defence claim that she was responding to specific points raised by Mike Katz, the guy running the meeting (who, allegedly, was simply rehashing old discredited arguments rather than raising new ones). The video doesn't include this so I can't know for sure, but it certainly does appear that the bulk of what she said was a response to issues already raised, rather than raising them herself. The only possible exception to this are her comments about HMD, which were probably unnecessarily inflammatory and contrarian in the context. Though still, as I said, far less so than her previous comments that got her suspended last time.

    And of course, that waste of space John Mann had to weigh in to pretend he still has credibility on this topic.
 
 
 
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