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    I can't believe that after I said that I had a serious back condition and multiple other problems, they give me no points at all, it's just ridiculous, so I have depression, insomnia, spondylocostal dysostosis (a serious back condition - the other type often dies at birth), anxiety including social anxiety, ADD and back injuries.Yet i'm not seen as someone who is just fine, I won't go on a full rant, but will say that it annoys me because anyone can be an alcoholic and get points, or someone can make up they're depressed because they had a bad day, get signed off with tablets, but when someone's genuinely depressed they get doubted and told to man up, i'm not even a whimp that just makes excuses, i've genuinely been depressed for the last 2 years and notice my life crumbling because of it, even my ADD has held me back loads, i'm not stupid, even scored 132 in an IQ test, if that means anything, but never been able to get my life together, so they just choose to kick me off ESA, it's like £2000 a year and they still have a problem with that, ridiculous.

    The thing is, i don't actually fit the criteria the assessor said. But I think I kind of do, the doctor kind of assumed that i could go to the shop every when I wanted, but it doesn't take so long to get to the shop and back, I told them I've been getting my mum to pick me up for the last 2 months, mostly because my bike is broken, but i'm also having back pain, it takes me 2 hours to get out of bed, in that time my back slowly recovers enough to feel ok to get up, depression comes into it.

    I'm also surprised why insomnia isn't seen as a mental illness, if someone can't get to sleep at the right time to work the next day, and it's not a choice, is it fair to force them into early shifts? I am limited in the work I can do, at my job 2 years ago when I came down with this depression, I had to get up at 6AM, 3 hours sleep a night was messing me up, I told them it's got worse, that day going to the assessment I was up for 3 days, slightly psychotic and seeing shadows in the corner of my eye and the room was twitching, also said my heart hurts from the lack of sleep.

    What can I do now? i want to write something or go to the MP. I want to make a complaint but because they have a strict definition of who's ill and who's not, you don't qualify when you're clearly ill, my point was forcing me to work in these situations is going to make my back condition worse and is not good for me, even in the jobseekers allowance group, getting up so early being forced was really ruining me, I had sleep deprivation badly, I had to go home and make up some jobs I applied for just so I could get some rest, I wasn't bunking off.

    The ESA assessor just assumes that i'm fine though, that's what annoys me, that because I'm young i'm perfectly fit and healthy, I bet he thought I was just lazy, well bull****ingshit, some people get all the help and aren't half as ****ed as I am, they don't take people like me seriously though.

    What I could say about the back condition is that I have stopped going to the shop for now, partly due to my back killing me and partly due to my bike was ruined, i said I buy things online, but don't think he took subconsciously I don't like to walk because it hurts and when i get back home, my back hurts for the night, walking around when I was young, I always slouched, i have a curvature of the spine, so sitting up straight is also a struggle, I have to bend over a little, but too much also causes pain, hence why I like to lay down on my bed doing anything. Sitting on the sofa is bad because my back becomes damaged. I did actually sit in that chair at the ESA room, but it hurt though, will say I felt kind of bullied into sitting down. It was a very aggressive interview, like he was trying to convince me I was fine and then judge me on it, and I were to feel guilty for saying what was true, he didn't like that.

    Also didn't mention that I have actually being planning to commit suicide through this depression, I got so tired of trying in life and being lost, not having anything work out for me, just being in the **** 24/7, had lost hope, didn't want to say it in front of the social worker. Also said that I had trouble remembering half of the stuff I have, because I can't just keep a list of what's wrong with me, my ADD makes it hard for me to do that.
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    You have to appeal. But you won't get any money whilst they're doing a reconsideration.

    Unfortunately, you won't get ESA unless you meet the criteria.

    You can only appeal on the basis of law and not because you don't like the decision.
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    (Original post by Tiger Rag)
    You have to appeal. But you won't get any money whilst they're doing a reconsideration.

    Unfortunately, you won't get ESA unless you meet the criteria.

    You can only appeal on the basis of law and not because you don't like the decision.
    Thankyou, do I go on the exact ESA criteria?
    https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...stionnaire.pdf
    researchbriefings.files.parliame nt.uk/documents/CBP-7182/CBP-7182.pdf
    I apologize for the rants I've posted on here before and thankyou for your help, as you can see I've suffered a lot, putting me in care for 12 years really messed with my head, I can see that adult depression arises from it. I just don't know why they don't help help people that they know are ill and there's no adjustment made, rather than being treated like humans we are judged on strict criteria, some people are in a lot of trouble and do actually end up committing suicide, but they don't seem to care, they are just a number to them.

    And if I'm going strictly by the law of what qualifies then I probably fit the criteria for losses of consciousness, my ADD causes me to phase out all the time, I've actually rode my bike into lamposts before, posted lollies in postbox's not knowing what I was doing, being in dream world also got me sacked from proctor and gamble because it was a health and safety issue, it says on there that they make exceptions to health and safety issues, but the guy basically said that's not what we mean by consciousness, well if they want to go by a strict criteria, then I could just say I ave ADD and have consciousness problems, I am subconscious and unaware of my surroundings, too bad if he wants to interpret the criteria how he likes.I'm going to write down why I think they're wrong and what I actually meant, I said I forget things, hopefully they can take that into account, it should hopefully give me another chance to just adjust what i want to fit the criteria, I am ill though.
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    You have to score 15 points either from a single descriptor or a combination of descriptors.

    You have to send in evidence backing up why you meet the criteria. Just having a diagnosis isn't enough.

    No idea why you've linked me to an ESA50 form?
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    (Original post by Tiger Rag)
    You have to score 15 points either from a single descriptor or a combination of descriptors.

    You have to send in evidence backing up why you meet the criteria. Just having a diagnosis isn't enough.

    No idea why you've linked me to an ESA50 form?
    It depends what they consider evidence. Do you mean evidence that I have these problems or evidence that it's affected me in certain ways? I have a post on here where I've wrote how I could commit suicide, that's proof.

    Also, I could contact P&G that I need evidence that I got sacked for getting blood on the products, as I was phased out I cut my finger and leaked all over them, so it can be dangerous at times, like even nearly touched electrical equipment being doped out.I thought that they weren't so strict on criteria, my mum said, even for glasses for example you could get points, and loads apply because of depression, but nope. I thought there was somethings you could get awarded ESA from that wasn't on the criteria, but they probably changed it now, even heard alcoholics get help, but they're not on the criteria.

    Half this stuff is hard to prove though, so don't know what to do, how can you prove you have depression for example, i am signed off, and the doctor says i'm depressed, but what do they consider evidence? It's like asking people for evidence that you have a mind. Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense, can't stand it when people ask to prove that you have depression in your mind, what can you do? Like asking them to give me their thoughts, I don't even think it's possible to get a blood test to measure the lack of serotonin that comes from depression. The other month, I could really feel how much I was lacking serotonin and what it felt like getting that back again, I had a research chemical, serotonin based that really made me certain.
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    (Original post by NullDrone)
    It depends what they consider evidence. Do you mean evidence that I have these problems or evidence that it's affected me in certain ways? I have a post on here where I've wrote how I could commit suicide, that's proof.

    Also, I could contact P&G that I need evidence that I got sacked for getting blood on the products, as I was phased out I cut my finger and leaked all over them, so it can be dangerous at times, like even nearly touched electrical equipment being doped out.I thought that they weren't so strict on criteria, my mum said, even for glasses for example you could get points, and loads apply because of depression, but nope. I thought there was somethings you could get awarded ESA from that wasn't on the criteria, but they probably changed it now, even heard alcoholics get help, but they're not on the criteria.
    Your evidence has to be relevant to the criteria. Writing on here that you could commit suicide won't be proof. And it would be removed.

    Not sure what you mean by your mums comment.
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    Do you know where the new esa criteria is? I was going off that esa50 criteria, thought that was the correct version.

    Do you get it for actually saying you were planning to commit suicide? He asked me that and I thought maybe in some cases they make exceptions when people are close to taking their life, it would just mean that if people couldn't prove then they would end up dead and that's not what they want people to do (or is it? I wonder, they would probably be fine with people commiting suicide as they don't have to pay out, secretly david cameron probably wanted it, he hates us so it makes sense).
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    There's no new criteria.

    You don't get ESA just because you may commit suicide.
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    You need to ask for a mandatory reconsideration and then if that fails you need to appeal.

    Ask for a copy of the assessor's report and write down all of the things that you disagree with. Get your doctor to support everything you say, in writing. You could contact the CAB or mind and ask for help with this, they have people who are experienced at filling in these forms.

    Try and think practically and don't pay much attention to what random people tell you. Wearing glasses doesn't affect someone's ability to find work.
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    (Original post by Tiger Rag)
    There's no new criteria.

    You don't get ESA just because you may commit suicide.
    So then surely that esa50 form is the correct criteria isn't it? I just wondered why he asked me if I had considered comitting suicide, I said yes but I knew I couldn't go through with it so didn't bother as it caused me too much shame anyway, I used to actually attempt it when I was a kid but it never worked, I was never ready go through with it. Not sure why he would ask if it had nothing to do with the criteria.

    Do you know how I would prove any of this, they say they want evidence, but it depends what they consider evidence. I just don't see how you would prove half this stuff. I'm just going to slightly edit what I said in the interview from now, that he didn't bother writing what I said down and just assumed that I could ride to asda.If they're going off a strict criteria, then I should be able to fit the criteria for the consciousness part of it, he said something like we don't mean ADD, we mean like people dropping to floor, literally being knocked unconscious, but it doesn't say that, if they want to go by strict criteria then I fit that.
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    The form asks you questions. It doesn't list the criteria.

    Do you not have any GP / consultants letters?
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    What medical evidence did you supply? I noticed in a previous post you said that you haven't been diagnosed with ADD, how did you provide medical evidence to back up the symptoms that you have?

    Also, losing consciousness is a pretty straightforward criterion. Being zoned out does not count.
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    (Original post by x__justmyluck)
    What medical evidence did you supply? I noticed in a previous post you said that you haven't been diagnosed with ADD, how did you provide medical evidence to back up the symptoms that you have?
    Was going to ask this as well. Applying for disability benefits is pretty much a two-part job:

    1) Fill in the form in a way that shows that the way you're affected by your conditions fits their points criteria.
    2) Supply medical evidence supporting your claim.

    Best thing you can do is to appeal; point out where you feel the assessor made mistakes; make sure you point out where you fit their points criteria (not literally, but in a round-about way just rephrase the assessment criteria); and when you're done, get your GP to review the information and write a short letter basically saying that what you said is truthful and in agreement with your medical history and current conditions.

    If you suffer from chronic depression, have medical proof of this and have been feeling suicidal, you can point out to them that taking part in work or work related activity will make you feel stressed, and you can't cope with stress due to your anxiety so would likely become unwell and suicidal, which would mean that you would be at substantial risk of harm if you were found capable of work or work-related activity.
    This falls under the Exceptional Circumstances segment of the ESA assessment criteria, as follows:

    "You suffer from some specific disease or bodily or mental disablement and consequently there would be a substantial risk to the mental or physical health of any person if you were found not to have a limited capability for work. This risk should be linked to work you could realistically do according to your education or skills. This circumstance will not apply to you if the risk could be significantly reduced by making reasonable adjustments to your workplace or by you taking medication as prescribed."


    So, in short, if you tell them that you're likely to become suicidal as a result of being considered capable of work or work-related activity, and you have medical proof of a diagnosis of depression, you'll be place in the ESA Support group on that merit.

    If you need any more help shoot me a PM, as I've mentioned on these forums several times before I work part-time assisting people filling in forms for disability benefits
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    (Original post by WoodyMKC)
    Was going to ask this as well. Applying for disability benefits is pretty much a two-part job:

    1) Fill in the form in a way that shows that the way you're affected by your conditions fits their points criteria.
    2) Supply medical evidence supporting your claim.

    Best thing you can do is to appeal; point out where you feel the assessor made mistakes; make sure you point out where you fit their points criteria (not literally, but in a round-about way just rephrase the assessment criteria); and when you're done, get your GP to review the information and write a short letter basically saying that what you said is truthful and in agreement with your medical history and current conditions.

    If you suffer from chronic depression, have medical proof of this and have been feeling suicidal, you can point out to them that taking part in work or work related activity will make you feel stressed, and you can't cope with stress due to your anxiety so would likely become unwell and suicidal, which would mean that you would be at substantial risk of harm if you were found capable of work or work-related activity.
    This falls under the Exceptional Circumstances segment of the ESA assessment criteria, as follows:

    "You suffer from some specific disease or bodily or mental disablement and consequently there would be a substantial risk to the mental or physical health of any person if you were found not to have a limited capability for work. This risk should be linked to work you could realistically do according to your education or skills. This circumstance will not apply to you if the risk could be significantly reduced by making reasonable adjustments to your workplace or by you taking medication as prescribed."


    So, in short, if you tell them that you're likely to become suicidal as a result of being considered capable of work or work-related activity, and you have medical proof of a diagnosis of depression, you'll be place in the ESA Support group on that merit.

    If you need any more help shoot me a PM, as I've mentioned on these forums several times before I work part-time assisting people filling in forms for disability benefits
    Thankyou
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    (Original post by WoodyMKC)
    Was going to ask this as well. Applying for disability benefits is pretty much a two-part job:

    1) Fill in the form in a way that shows that the way you're affected by your conditions fits their points criteria.
    2) Supply medical evidence supporting your claim.

    Best thing you can do is to appeal; point out where you feel the assessor made mistakes; make sure you point out where you fit their points criteria (not literally, but in a round-about way just rephrase the assessment criteria); and when you're done, get your GP to review the information and write a short letter basically saying that what you said is truthful and in agreement with your medical history and current conditions.

    If you suffer from chronic depression, have medical proof of this and have been feeling suicidal, you can point out to them that taking part in work or work related activity will make you feel stressed, and you can't cope with stress due to your anxiety so would likely become unwell and suicidal, which would mean that you would be at substantial risk of harm if you were found capable of work or work-related activity.
    This falls under the Exceptional Circumstances segment of the ESA assessment criteria, as follows:

    "You suffer from some specific disease or bodily or mental disablement and consequently there would be a substantial risk to the mental or physical health of any person if you were found not to have a limited capability for work. This risk should be linked to work you could realistically do according to your education or skills. This circumstance will not apply to you if the risk could be significantly reduced by making reasonable adjustments to your workplace or by you taking medication as prescribed."


    So, in short, if you tell them that you're likely to become suicidal as a result of being considered capable of work or work-related activity, and you have medical proof of a diagnosis of depression, you'll be place in the ESA Support group on that merit.

    If you need any more help shoot me a PM, as I've mentioned on these forums several times before I work part-time assisting people filling in forms for disability benefits
    Are there any other aspects of the claim that I can get points on? I have a back condition, ADD, anxiety (including social), depression, back pain (but I realize it's muscular now).

    The point about consciousness that I was making was that if they are going by strict criteria and it's subjective, nobody can really say what is actually meant by "Lack of consciousness", being phased out I would say is a different consciousness, and literally it can be dangerous, is it up to them to decide what is meant by that?

    And the back condition I could just edit what I said that it affects me at different times, that he assumed I could ride the bike to asda, but in fact I do actually get back pain if sitting down straight too long, it's ok going to the shop as that's 10 minutes, not even that. But now I've stopped riding altogether, I did have trouble sitting down at school so that is probably written somewhere, I haven't really sat down anywhere other than at P&G since I left school, it's not for long, I want to try to say that it becomes more damaged at times, literally for me my spine so stiff in the morning, I can't get out of bed, working at the restaurant damaged it more. My back was terrible, even had to wear a support belt because the spine felt damaged, with no sleep it was worse.

    I'm not even sure the GP will support me though, even for ADD they just assumed I didn't have it and made out the guy knew me well, even though on school reports I have comments that suggest I have ADD. The back condition they don't really know of and even had to pay for the certificate as it was diagnosed years ago. The doctors know how it affects those who have it, would that be considered evidence? Before I even done all this stuff he told me not to go on trampolines, play rugby or anything too physical on the spine. Mopping floors was where my back became hell, it hasn't recovered since, not sure how to prove it though.
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    (Original post by NullDrone)
    Are there any other aspects of the claim that I can get points on? I have a back condition, ADD, anxiety (including social), depression, back pain (but I realize it's muscular now).

    The point about consciousness that I was making was that if they are going by strict criteria and it's subjective, nobody can really say what is actually meant by "Lack of consciousness", being phased out I would say is a different consciousness, and literally it can be dangerous, is it up to them to decide what is meant by that?

    And the back condition I could just edit what I said that it affects me at different times, that he assumed I could ride the bike to asda, but in fact I do actually get back pain if sitting down straight too long, it's ok going to the shop as that's 10 minutes, not even that. But now I've stopped riding altogether, I did have trouble sitting down at school so that is probably written somewhere, I haven't really sat down anywhere other than at P&G since I left school, it's not for long, I want to try to say that it becomes more damaged at times, literally for me my spine so stiff in the morning, I can't get out of bed, working at the restaurant damaged it more. My back was terrible, even had to wear a support belt because the spine felt damaged, with no sleep it was worse.
    It's a bit of a long one, but it's well worth having a browse through the Work Capability Assessment handbook (link https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...-july-2016.pdf). It's a book for the assessors and it goes into great detail about how points are scored for each question, including what counts and what doesn't count.

    Also bear in mind that you have to be able to do something safely, reliably and repeatedly to be deemed able to do something, so if doing something once then leaves you in considerable pain for the rest of the day then you technically shouldn't be deemed as able to do it - always make your assessor aware of this in any future assessments.

    Definitely take on board what I said re: your depression and anxiety as that alone should get you into the support group, but it's good to cover all bases so have a read of the handbook (this stuff starts at page 84 of 257) and see what relates to you, then include anything in your letter that you think applies and was overlooked at the assessment.
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    You're trying too hard imo. The names of your conditions don't matter. Plenty of people with your conditions are able to work. All DWP care about is whether you fit the criteria, for which you need to send in evidence for.

    You have to get a copy of the report and highlight where they've gone wrong. But as I've mentioned, you can only appeal on the basis of law and not because you don't like their decision.

    You need to go somewhere like CAB (although some will only help if they helped you fill in the form in the first place) and get some advice.
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    NullDrone Honestly mate, I think Tiger Rag hit it on the head, by the sounds of it getting across your physical health conditions in a way that fits their criteria is gonna be a hell of a job via an appeal, it'd probably need a complete re-do of your form going that route and you'd need someone helping you every step of the way which would take weeks.

    What I would suggest is to emphasise the fact that you suffer from depression and suicidal thoughts as I talked about above. Here's a link to a template for a covering letter that you can print off and take to your GP and get them to fill in for you https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...HoA1h2rNk/edit

    It's important that you get them to:

    a) Include depression and anxiety as two of your medical problems.
    b) Under the "I am of this opinion because" part, state that you would find it difficult to deal with the stress that work or work related activity would cause you due to your anxiety - you become stressed and unwell very easily, and because of your depression these circumstances would leave you feeling suicidal.
    c) Sign the form with their name and "General Practitioner to {your name}".

    If you have proof from your GP that you suffer from depression and have the tendency to become suicidal and being found capable of work or work-related activity would push you over so to speak, this is considered a risk to your health and they HAVE to put you in the support group. This is going to be the easiest and most guaranteed way to go about this if your GP can help you :top:
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    What a terrible fuss! Why would insomnia be 'a mental illness'...?!
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    (Original post by Reality Check)
    What a terrible fuss! Why would insomnia be 'a mental illness'...?!
    Out of everything i have I actually think the insomnia affects me most, there's nothing I can't stand as much as going without sleep for multiple days, try it, last time I was up at 5am thinking I was going to have a heart attack, the heart becomes tired after multiple days, it's not a mental illness but it does affect you. Lot's of people don't understand how these things affect people, but until you have it, you don't realize, when you are depressed you push people away, your life becomes hell and that's not exagerrated. I see autism for example as something not hard to put up with, only other people have to put up with it, that is however seen as a bigger problem.

    Many people like to just say "we're fine" and "man up", but that's exactly why we don't get recognized or help, if you go without a diagnosis for ADD it leads to failure, most just think it doesn't affect them, yes it does. I can't stand that would just say "get over it", well i just tell them to stfu because half the time they are clueless and haven't researched anything about disorders. Many say depression isn't an illness, but don't have a clue, then on the other side we have people who claim they are depressed if they have a bad day, so regardless, the people who genuinely have problems get booted in the nuts.

    Doctors will often make you think you're fine and that you just need to get over it, but if you actually observe it really is screwing you over.

    You would think that depression didn't do anything and people were whiners, many end up turning to drugs, committing suicide or whatever, I've lost many friends and close to losing family through this, and yes it is a fuss because that's what depression does to you, it makes you sound bad like you have a bad attitude, small things will piss you off. On this facebook group I am in, I can see many are depressed, and have met many that have turned to drugs through it, like this kid sticking needles into his arm, he probably he thinks he's "just fine" and the doctor probably says "oh well, get over it *****".
 
 
 
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