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Is "accidental penetration" rape?

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I can't find it because it's been years since I've seen the name of the case - but I was talking about this same case with my housemate (who is a third year lawyer who had said the name but now I don't remember it, as I've said) and we were reaching the exact same conclusion - if the mistake of consent was reasonable then it isn't rape - why would I make this up? but I'm not only appealing to the law - if you have sex with somebody and you sincerely believe that they are consenting, how is that rape? I swear the legal (UK) definition of rape too accounts for this?

But he doesnt believe, which part of2. The girl made it VERY clear she did not want to have sex with the man
Did you not understand. You are free to do soem research and tell us why you believe the OP's scenario does not amount to rape. I dont think a conversation you ahd with your housemate amounts to much. Just link us to some credible source which supports your point and is relevant to the scenario of the OP.

Reply 41

999tigger

Original post by TheMcSame

Slips inside but doesn't stop? Surely at least one of them would've noticed it slipped in. At that point it isn't really accidental penetration...

I mean, if it just slipped inside whatever, with those terms you have to accept that things like that can, and will happen. It's the whole part about him not stopping which makes this rape rather than accidental penetration. I find it hard to believe that neither of them would notice.

Some people are heavy sleepers, see my previous post with the links to cases of women being raped during sleep.

Reply 42

TheMcSame

Original post by 999tigger

Some people are heavy sleepers, see my previous post with the links to cases of women being raped during sleep.

Re-read the OP, the woman in this scenario isn't asleep at all...

Reply 43

sleepysnooze

Original post by 999tigger

...mate, if you ****ing *know* the details of the case I'm talking about, why are you asking me what the case is called? I'm not even referring to the OP's case, I'm talking about "accidental rape" as you might term it

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 44

sarah_j_jane

Original post by Anonymous

To make this short, I'll bullet point this situation..

1. A man and woman are in bed, kissing and such.
2. The girl made it VERY clear she did not want to have sex with the man
3. She however, agreed to him rubbing his penis on her vagina
4. They do that, but at some point, it slips inside and the man does not stop having sex...
5. The woman is unaware that it slipped inside but is informed by the man, after he ejaculates, that he did penetrate her.

IS THIS RAPE? What are your thoughts?

As if this could ever happen but:
"It slips inside" -accident
"the man does not stop"- rape
"the woman in unaware"- rape

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Reply 45

999tigger

Original post by sleepysnooze

...mate, if you ****ing *know* the details of the case I'm talking about, why are you asking me what the case is called?

I have no idea what the case is you are putting forward.

Reply 46

username1884577

How small is he for her to not realise that he's penetrated her...

Yes it's rape, he didn't stop

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 47

bones-mccoy

He definitely should have stopped once he was aware the penis was inside tbh

Seems to be a pretty clear rape case. If she didn't agree to it, he realised it had happened and didn't tell her (regardless of whether or not it was accidental) then he knowingly had sex with somebody who had not consented to it.

Incidentally, did this actually happen or do you just have a very unusual imagination? 0_0

Reply 50

999tigger

Original post by TheMcSame

Re-read the OP, the woman in this scenario isn't asleep at all...

Fair point. I was pointing to those sleep examples becayse it shows how it cna happen with women not noticing.

You just have to accpet the cenario as presented by the OP she didnt notice.

Reply 51

Nadile

Original post by porn induced coma

Yes. Because she clearly stated her boundaries. Agreeing to sexual contact is not the same as agreeing that anything goes. If I agree to vaginal penetration does not mean I agree to oral or anal penetration.

Also, it's not an accident if you carry on doing it.

Finally, I'm also pretty sure you can tell when it's in so that bit confuses me.

I assume this scenario is not factual.

Fully agree. Also perfectly explained so I'm not gonna waste time saying the same thing. The most important part here is that it's not accidental if you carry on.

So yes, as unrealistic as this scenario is, it's still rape.

Reply 52

Bootz

Sex is more than just male on female penetration. If she didn't want to have sex then why ask the guy to rub his cock on her? Just to see how close to actually doing it she can get? Some sort of twisted desire for control? Why even bother at that point, she must surely understand that sex for men usually involves the use of his penis to achieve pleasure (Again. USUALLY).

Consider that we don't know

1) why didn't she realise he was insider her?
2) did she show signs of wanting him to stop?
3) did he realise she still didn't want him to have penetrative sex. (if he slipped in and she seemed eager it could appear to him that she had quite enjoyed the little accident. Should he stop every 30 seconds to get all relevent permissions revalidated?)

It's plainly a loaded question to get a misandrist circle jerk going. ¬.¬

Reply 53

Twinpeaks

Original post by sleepysnooze

nope - you need both action and intent for rape - there are law cases in UK law where there have been people raping crying women but the men were told that the women were just being dramatic and playing hard to get (from their husbands who for whatever reason were trying to get others to have sex with their wives), and it was found therefore that, due to no intent of rape, they weren't guilty of a sexual offence

Wrong. The scenario is so embarrassingly ridiculous that I don't even know why I'm even bothering, but wrong.

The scenario explicitly says that the man "continued" penetration in the full knowledge that the woman unambiguously did not want sex. How is that not rape.

Rape doesn't just apply to the initial penetration, it can start off consensual and then lead to rape if the girl changes her mind and wants to stop, but he refuses.
So with that in mind, how is it not rape, if he started off "accidentally" penetrating the woman, but purposely continues, in the full knowledge that she does not, and did not, consent.

Reply 54

sleepysnooze

Original post by Twinpeaks

where is "continued" penetration in the case law that I referred to though? if it doesn't apply to the OP (which I didn't read all of) then...then why are you saying this about the possibility of my case law not applying? did *you* not read all of the opening post as well?

Reply 55

Twinpeaks

Original post by sleepysnooze

Who gives a **** about the case you provided?

This is the issue. You said that in the scenario the OP provided, that it was not rape in your view. You used this case of yours to back up your claim that it was not rape, right?

But perhaps it may be wise for you to actually bother to read the OP's scenario first, it would have saved you fighting for the relevance of your case example, when it simply doesn't apply here.

The OP clearly stated that the male continued penetration, knowingly. Therefore that is rape. Whether that ties in with your case is wholly irrelevant. Forget about your bloody case example.

I feel that you are arguing simply for the sake of arguing here. You are wrong, mostly because you couldn't be arsed to read the OP in the first place.

Reply 56

M14B

Homework for Philosophy and Ethics?

Reply 57

Truflais

Did she become unconscious at some point between the rubbing and the penetration? Otherwise, she would surely be aware of someone thrusting away and cumming in her.

Yes

"I dont want to have sex with you"
", but I want you to thrust your dick between my vagina"
"Oh, and if it accidentally goes in my vagina, it counts as rape and I'm calling the police".

And they say men are confusing.

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