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Why dors the UK have such a poor manufacturing industry compared to Japan and German Watch

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    When you think about Japanese companies Toyota Panasonic Nikon Canon Nissan Makita Hitachi. Germany companies Bosch BMW Audi etc I can think of hardly any British companies.
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    At first glance we might not own a lot of manufacturing companies but you'll realise a lot goes on if you look a little deeper.

    We don't own most of the car manufacturers that operate here but we definitely still benefit from their presence. Oxford Mini, Swindon Honda, Sunderland Nissan, and many many more. We also lead the high performance automotive industry. Most of the world's Formula One teams are based here and parts used on race cars in series from F1 to the WEC are designed and manufactured in the UK. If you want to know more about the automotive industry in particular, I'd recommend with all seriousness the last part of Top Gear S20E6, which shows pretty well that we do mak quite a lot.

    We also have engineering companies in other sectors such as Seimens and BAE systems.
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    (Original post by karl pilkington)
    When you think about Japanese companies Toyota Panasonic Nikon Canon Nissan Makita Hitachi. Germany companies Bosch BMW Audi etc I can think of hardly any British companies.
    www.britishsteel.co.uk

    'nuff said. :unimpressed:
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    (Original post by karl pilkington)
    When you think about Japanese companies Toyota Panasonic Nikon Canon Nissan Makita Hitachi. Germany companies Bosch BMW Audi etc I can think of hardly any British companies.
    Ummm, I assume you have heard of Jaguar, Mclaren, Rolls Royce, Land Rover, Bentley, Lotus, Aston Martin. If we just stick with automotice we also get AC Cars, Alexander Dennis, Ariel, Ascari, Briggs, Bristol, Caterham, Ginetta, LTI, Morgan, Noble, Optare, Plaxton, Sunbeam, TVR and Wrightbus, oh, and that's just British ones (that are still British) that had not already been given.

    But then manufacturing isn't limited to cars and machinery, heard of Cadbury, Tate & Lyle, or SAB Miller? Okay, maybe haven't heard of SAB Miller, probably have heard of what they make, probably a half decent chance you've consumed their products, same goes for Diago, probably consumed their products if you haven't consumed SAB Miller's.

    Big in the Tobacco industry too, with two of the big 5 being British, those being BAT and Imperial Tobacco, you've certainly heard of their brands.

    Maybe we should go back to heavier industry, I can't believe you have never heard of JCB. Harland and Wolff (the people that built the Titanic) are still around, although they have diversified from ship building now. I also imagine you've heard of BAE systems, one of the biggest defence contractors in the world, they are involved in building Eurofighters and F35s, they built the Astute class submarines, are building the Queen Elizabeth Class carriers, and will almost certainly be building the successor subs, and these are the people who's predecessor companies built some of our greatest aircraft: the comet, Harrier, and of course the Spitfire.

    Triumph is also still not only British, but entirely British owned, and Britain plays a major part in making Airbus aircraft, with wings being made in Wales and obviously any Rolls Royce power plants being made in the UK.

    Why stop there, GSK, second biggest pharamceutical company in the world: British, and the seventh biggest is a British-Swedish company.

    I guess you've never heard of a single one of those companies though. As for why the sector is so weak compared to Germany and Japan, part of it has actually been that the pound has been too strong for the last quarter century to have as highly competitive a sector as we once did, the other major thing is that when talking about Germany half the country is still decades behind, with the reunification of Germany West Germany got their hands on the still very industrial East Germany, in other words a major factor in Germany's large industrial sector is the Soviets being so ****.

    As for Japan, that comes from a very large tech sector, BTW, ever heard of ARM, must have, the Japanese bought it for £24bn a few months back? British (well, bar the Japanese having bought it). I would also suggest that the Japanese embrace of automation helps too. They accept that to survive with their severely ageing population they need to automate more, this is most easily done in the industrial sector. This increases output, cuts costs, and increases competitiveness. On the other hand we've had decades of unions trying to protect redundant low paying jobs which prevented somewhat this greater automation and creation of higher paying skilled jobs.

    Finally, in the post war years there was the loss of the empire, and the general attitude that the solution to all problems was nationalise and regulate, which lasted all the way through to Thatcher, and this really did not help, it severely reduced competitiveness and helped lead towards the downfall of British manufacturing. Meanwhile West Germany did the complete opposite and encouraged free enterprise.
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    ok but our motors look better
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    Opinions differ... IMO British management culture screwed up a lot of british industry involved in making consumer durables - the engineers had bright ideas as often as their counterparts anywhere else but the brit managers were just overly obsessed with cheaping out the product at the expense of reliability. eventually the brand gets damaged to the point where it's not desirable anymore.

    Lots of other factors - a fairly unique trade union culture where the most militant sounding candidates got elected to leadership because it sounded like they'd fight for a better deal... and then you end up with near continuous strikes because they were trying to bring about the downfall of capitalism.
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    It's because in the 60s rather than working hard and rebuilding our manufacturing sector, people just became lazy hippies who took LSD. And now we're behind ever since.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Ummm, I assume you have heard of Jaguar, Mclaren, Rolls Royce, Land Rover, Bentley, Lotus, Aston Martin. If we just stick with automotice we also get AC Cars, Alexander Dennis, Ariel, Ascari, Briggs, Bristol, Caterham, Ginetta, LTI, Morgan, Noble, Optare, Plaxton, Sunbeam, TVR and Wrightbus, oh, and that's just British ones (that are still British) that had not already been given.

    But then manufacturing isn't limited to cars and machinery, heard of Cadbury, Tate & Lyle, or SAB Miller? Okay, maybe haven't heard of SAB Miller, probably have heard of what they make, probably a half decent chance you've consumed their products, same goes for Diago, probably consumed their products if you haven't consumed SAB Miller's.

    Big in the Tobacco industry too, with two of the big 5 being British, those being BAT and Imperial Tobacco, you've certainly heard of their brands.

    Maybe we should go back to heavier industry, I can't believe you have never heard of JCB. Harland and Wolff (the people that built the Titanic) are still around, although they have diversified from ship building now. I also imagine you've heard of BAE systems, one of the biggest defence contractors in the world, they are involved in building Eurofighters and F35s, they built the Astute class submarines, are building the Queen Elizabeth Class carriers, and will almost certainly be building the successor subs, and these are the people who's predecessor companies built some of our greatest aircraft: the comet, Harrier, and of course the Spitfire.

    Triumph is also still not only British, but entirely British owned, and Britain plays a major part in making Airbus aircraft, with wings being made in Wales and obviously any Rolls Royce power plants being made in the UK.

    Why stop there, GSK, second biggest pharamceutical company in the world: British, and the seventh biggest is a British-Swedish company.

    I guess you've never heard of a single one of those companies though. As for why the sector is so weak compared to Germany and Japan, part of it has actually been that the pound has been too strong for the last quarter century to have as highly competitive a sector as we once did, the other major thing is that when talking about Germany half the country is still decades behind, with the reunification of Germany West Germany got their hands on the still very industrial East Germany, in other words a major factor in Germany's large industrial sector is the Soviets being so ****.

    As for Japan, that comes from a very large tech sector, BTW, ever heard of ARM, must have, the Japanese bought it for £24bn a few months back? British (well, bar the Japanese having bought it). I would also suggest that the Japanese embrace of automation helps too. They accept that to survive with their severely ageing population they need to automate more, this is most easily done in the industrial sector. This increases output, cuts costs, and increases competitiveness. On the other hand we've had decades of unions trying to protect redundant low paying jobs which prevented somewhat this greater automation and creation of higher paying skilled jobs.

    Finally, in the post war years there was the loss of the empire, and the general attitude that the solution to all problems was nationalise and regulate, which lasted all the way through to Thatcher, and this really did not help, it severely reduced competitiveness and helped lead towards the downfall of British manufacturing. Meanwhile West Germany did the complete opposite and encouraged free enterprise.
    Yo do realise that Jaguar Landrover is owned by an Indian company? Most of the other car companies you mentioned don't manufacture no where near enough volume as compared to major car manufacturers. https://news.markets/shares/toyota-r...-company-9737/ Also BAE systems doesn't count as they rely on defence contracts given by taxpayers money they don't have to compete much with other companies worldwide as the government favours them. Also tobacco doesn't count as it's a declining industry and relies on a product which kills people. GSK is a great company not really manufacturing more science/medicine. JCB and airbus are great but airbus still is a joint venture. The actual manufacturing industry is almost nonexist
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    (Original post by karl pilkington)
    Yo do realise that Jaguar Landrover is owned by an Indian company? Most of the other car companies you mentioned don't manufacture no where near enough volume as compared to major car manufacturers. https://news.markets/shares/toyota-r...-company-9737/ Also BAE systems doesn't count as they rely on defence contracts given by taxpayers money they don't have to compete much with other companies worldwide as the government favours them. Also tobacco doesn't count as it's a declining industry and relies on a product which kills people. GSK is a great company not really manufacturing more science/medicine. JCB and airbus are great but airbus still is a joint venture. The actual manufacturing industry is almost nonexist
    Right, an eighth of the economy is almost non existent. Jaguar Landrover may be owned by an Indian company, doesn't mean that it isn't a British multinational, biggest car manufacturer in the UK too with nearly half a million cars built.

    You do realise that the MoD don't even contribute a quarter of the BAE revenues, they sell more to the DoD than the MoD, and I'd you think there is no competition in defence contracting you're sorely mistaken, but hey, if 12% of GDP from a whole sector is almost nothing I guess a British company whose revenues are approximately 1% of GDP is totally irrelevant.

    It's nice to see you continue dismissing major companies for not fitting your rhetoric, over a billion people smoke, and you seem to be confusing national and international trends. While it may be true that in developed countries smoking is in decline this is not true of developing countries as people there are getting more money in their pockets, tobacco is still a growing industry not a declining one, and it's worth noting most industries produce lethal products. 15 years ago about 5.5tn **** were smoked annually, that was up almost half a trillion 5 years ago and at the end of the decade is expected to be pushing 7tn.

    I would also like to ask you how exactly you intend to take medicine without it being manufactured, please tell me you don't believe in homeopathy, believe it or not pure water does not have healing powers (although I suppose even that is kinda manufactured), or do you believe that medicine naturally grows in nature as little tablets in plastic packaging?

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    (Original post by M451)
    At first glance we might not own a lot of manufacturing companies but you'll realise a lot goes on if you look a little deeper.

    We don't own most of the car manufacturers that operate here but we definitely still benefit from their presence. Oxford Mini, Swindon Honda, Sunderland Nissan, and many many more. We also lead the high performance automotive industry. Most of the world's Formula One teams are based here and parts used on race cars in series from F1 to the WEC are designed and manufactured in the UK. If you want to know more about the automotive industry in particular, I'd recommend with all seriousness the last part of Top Gear S20E6, which shows pretty well that we do mak quite a lot.

    We also have engineering companies in other sectors such as Seimens and BAE systems.
    I think you'll find Siemens is German

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    (Original post by karl pilkington)
    When you think about Japanese companies Toyota Panasonic Nikon Canon Nissan Makita Hitachi. Germany companies Bosch BMW Audi etc I can think of hardly any British companies.
    Rolls royce?
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    The biggest British manufacturing company (in fact Anglo-Dutch) is Unilever.
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    (Original post by karl pilkington)
    When you think about Japanese companies Toyota Panasonic Nikon Canon Nissan Makita Hitachi. Germany companies Bosch BMW Audi etc I can think of hardly any British companies.
    The UK actually manufacturers a lot and runs a trade surplus with most non-EU countries. Within that we are world beating luxury cars, pharmaceuticals, aerospace, defense and telecommunications. For the future we rank only behind the US, EU, China, South Korea and Japan in terms of innovation and patents filed at an international level. We're generally regarded as fighting for third in the space sector with a couple of other European nations. Skylon (a British firm) is currently building something truly revolutionary.

    The British problem has been that over the past decades we have sold British born firms to the tune of more than £400bn, often without the restrictions on control that you see in the US for example. What this means is that we lose a lot to outsourcing since the manufacturing moves to another country in many cases.

    *It's probably worth saying that we have the second largest trade surplus in services so as much as people focus on cars over software, it's not like we don't create anything.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I think you'll find Siemens is German

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    My bad, although they definitely have a significant presence over here as well.

    (Original post by BasharAssad)
    Rolls royce?
    Now owned by BMW but still assemble all their cars here.
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    (Original post by M451)
    My bad, although they definitely have a significant presence over here as well.Now owned by BMW but still assemble all their cars here.
    not only cars but turbo fan engines for many passenger planes such as the Boeing 787
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    (Original post by BasharAssad)
    not only cars but turbo fan engines for many passenger planes such as the Boeing 787
    Yes, they're definitely one of the industry leaders for jet engines.

    I also like to think of the McLaren Group as an important company now, they do a lot more than just making cars.
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    Re UK car manufacturers not being big compared to the likes of Toyota, hardly surprising, last I checked most people want cars that are only like 10-15k new, not 50k+ new, it's the reason the likes of BMW and Mercedes aren't very high on the list either. You want to be looking at where our car manufacturers sit in the market of the mid price range cars, not the family hatch backs market.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    The British problem has been that over the past decades we have sold British born firms to the tune of more than £400bn, often without the restrictions on control that you see in the US for example.
    So you mean because we practice free enterprise and don't have the State putting restrictions on transactions in a free market.
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    So you mean because we practice free enterprise and don't have the State putting restrictions on transactions in a free market.
    Yes. I imagine that in M&A it would be hard to find a more open economy.

    I quite like the US idea which we see with Google quite well for example. That is to say that in the US you have split shares for foreign ownership and control. When Google was floated a large portion of ownership was sold however the founders retained controlling shares.

    The alternative approach from Germany (though they've eaten bits of our pie) is for government to retain the right of first refusal so that when a British firm wishes to give away equity they would be obliged to offer it to government first. I believe this is the arrangement that the German government have with Volkswagen.

    It's protectionist to some degree but if we don't want outsourcing (though there are of course merits to it for us) then we may have to take such steps.
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    Because of the widespread usage of the English language in the world, the British capitalised on light-industry and service sector, so leisure, travelling, banking, finance, consulting, information, academia and of course trading in commodities and precarious metals. The heavy industry which existed before up to 1980s was not competitive in the first place and it was cheaper to import such goods from the developing countries. The UK could not keep up with the pace of technological modernisation against Japan, the US and Germany.
 
 
 
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