Student places in Medicine to increase by 25% in 2018

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    Major news for those wanting to study medicine.

    The number of medical school places will increase by 25% in 2018 under plans to make England "self-sufficient" in training doctors.

    Mr Hunt will tell the Conservative Party conference in Birmingham on Tuesday: "We need to prepare the NHS for the future, which means doing something we have never done properly before - training enough doctors".
    Whose fault is that?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37546360

    He might want to pay attention to the fact the governments relation with junior doctors is at rock bottom and this idea does little about doctors leaving the profession in droves at the other end.

    He is making it compulsory to stay in the NHS for four years or repay the cost (I dont have a problem with), but rather than having to force them to stay by law he might be better of negotiaing and offering them an attractive working environment where they want to stay?

    They are intending to pay for it by charging foreign students more.
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    Whilst I agree with the compulsory four years in principle, it would mean an 18-year-old dedicating nine years of their life to becoming a doctor. At that age, I do not believe that everyone has the capacity to make life decisions that binding, and I can see disputes over the horizon where the rule is enforced in a draconian way to doctors in special circumstances (whatever they may be). It also causes problems with the obligation to remain in a certain working environment, putting the power over junior doctors more firmly in the government's hands. They can strike, but until they've done their four years, they cannot leave.

    In that perspective, it looks as though the government are offering an olive branch (perhaps they're worried about application figures for 2017 entry following the recent disputes), but are doing so in part to hide the introduction of this new obligation. Either way, it's an interesting and somewhat unexpected turn of events.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    They are intending to pay for it by charging foreign students more.
    That's a very odd funding stream.

    The government doesn't receive international student tuition fees the university teaching them does.

    At the moment med schools are restricted to admitting 7% or less of their intake as international....so maybe they're saying universities can take more international students to subsidise the extra UK/EU places. But that would require a HUGE expansion in international med students to properly cover the costs. Med training COSTS A LOT - that's why the fees for international students are already huge.

    Or maybe they're talking about increasing the cost for a tier 4 visa application - so all international students would pay UKVI more and that money would somehow be shifted into HEFCE (seems unlikely given that visa numbers have been declining steadily because we've had a government that was anti-immigration)

    Sounds like back of a fag packet policy that hasn't been costed or coordinated with the other government departments affected.
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    Are they going to sort the funding out for graduate students who want to do the undergraduate course, i.e. allow them full access to tuition fee loans? Or will the student support funding be channeled solely to school leavers/first degree students? No announcement so far, it seems on this detail.
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    I agree with this, we need to be training out own doctors and nurses rather than importing Europeans, we also need to achieve a surplus of junior doctors to undermine the strike attempts.
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    Maybe not demoralising doctors to the point that ~40% are considering moving abroad and more than 5000 certificates allowing doctors to practice abroad are being issued each year would be a far better strategy.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    That's a very odd funding stream.

    The government doesn't receive international student tuition fees the university teaching them does.

    At the moment med schools are restricted to admitting 7% or less of their intake as international....so maybe they're saying universities can take more international students to subsidise the extra UK/EU places. But that would require a HUGE expansion in international med students to properly cover the costs. Med training COSTS A LOT - that's why the fees for international students are already huge.

    Or maybe they're talking about increasing the cost for a tier 4 visa application - so all international students would pay UKVI more and that money would somehow be shifted into HEFCE (seems unlikely given that visa numbers have been declining steadily because we've had a government that was anti-immigration)

    Sounds like back of a fag packet policy that hasn't been costed or coordinated with the other government departments affected.
    It's a politician at a party conference. Its is also jeremey Hunt, so a massive bucket of salt. As you know the devil is in the detail and tbf it was a point raised in a VVC article so it would have to be sourced. As you point out either the numbers wouldnt add up or foreign applicants would be in for some almighty fee rises, in which case they might go elsewhere. I'd have to see the numbers of just how many international students train here, but i'd be surprised if it was 25%.

    The government is losing bigger amounts by the NHS Drs who wlak out of the system.

    The article suggested an increase from 6,000 to 7,500 students. I hadnt realised there were so many medical students.
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    (Original post by Reality Check)
    Are they going to sort the funding out for graduate students who want to do the undergraduate course, i.e. allow them full access to tuition fee loans? Or will the student support funding be channeled solely to school leavers/first degree students? No announcement so far, it seems on this detail.
    Who knows. Alwats be sceptical of anything said at party conferences its normall sketchy and menat to appeal to the party faithful. the details are all left for later. They just want the applause. Imo they will go for the cheapest way to get the required numbers.
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    (Original post by Reality Check)
    Are they going to sort the funding out for graduate students who want to do the undergraduate course, i.e. allow them full access to tuition fee loans? Or will the student support funding be channeled solely to school leavers/first degree students? No announcement so far, it seems on this detail.
    I'm wondering the same. The grad funding at the moment is dire and completely unfair. It totally put me off (because I couldn't afford to do it) so I chose an allied med 2nd degree. Would consider doing a 3rd degree in med if they sort it out and if that 25% increase has grads included.

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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    It's a politician at a party conference. Its is also jeremey Hunt, so a massive bucket of salt. As you know the devil is in the detail and tbf it was a point raised in a VVC article so it would have to be sourced. As you point out either the numbers wouldnt add up or foreign applicants would be in for some almighty fee rises, in which case they might go elsewhere. I'd have to see the numbers of just how many international students train here, but i'd be surprised if it was 25%.

    The government is losing bigger amounts by the NHS Drs who wlak out of the system.

    The article suggested an increase from 6,000 to 7,500 students. I hadnt realised there were so many medical students.
    As I say - at the moment med and dentistry are restricted to no more than 7% of their intake international.

    It's wonderful to see this this afternoon
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37549800
    "New curbs on foreign workers and students may be needed to "change the tide" of public opinion on immigration, Home Secretary Amber Rudd has said."

    :rolleyes:

    fag packet policies and no cooperation between departments.
 
 
 
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