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Why are there so many foreign doctors in the NHS?

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    This is not meant to be ****ging off foreign doctors but as they have recently increased the number of doctors they are gonna train how come they haven't done this sooner and why did they recruit so many doctors from overseas in the first place?
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    (Original post by karl pilkington)
    This is not meant to be ****ging off foreign doctors but as they have recently increased the number of doctors they are gonna train how come they haven't done this sooner and why did they recruit so many doctors from overseas in the first place?
    BMA and other doctors groups have been screaming this for years.

    Its basically because the Department of Health is run by lifelong bureaucrats and politicians who don't actually know much about healthcare and whose priorities are political, not to actually run the health service well. Its no coincidence that this announcement comes at a time when anti-immigrant sentiment is at a huge high.

    Sadly, this is at least a decade late to help with the impending crisis. The next 15 years are going to be really hard for the NHS and our reliance on foreign doctors is only going to increase, not decrease.
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    (Original post by karl pilkington)
    This is not meant to be ****ging off foreign doctors but as they have recently increased the number of doctors they are gonna train how come they haven't done this sooner and why did they recruit so many doctors from overseas in the first place?
    Because there is an increased demand for doctors and people are living longer.

    They are also planning to go 7 days, which will need even more doctors.

    They also have a retention problem in that NHS Drs are leaving or retiring in droves becayse they get better offers or emoralised about what the NHS is like to work in.

    Because of the shortfall, they have no choice but to recruit doctors and nurses from abroad. The NHS could not function without them. A lot come from the EU becayse with the single market ist easier to work here and a lot come from developing countries because the wages are more attractive. This deprives their own countries of trained medical staff.

    It take 5 years to train Dr and then they need much longer to gain the experience to become specialists. That costs money and takes planning.
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    There is a big shortage in doctors, even with the increase in number of training places there will still be a big shortage.
    You have to remember that by the time the new doctors graduate many doctors would have gone into retirement so there will still be a hole to fill.
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    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    There is a big shortage in doctors, even with the increase in number of training places there will still be a big shortage.
    You have to remember that by the time the new doctors graduate many doctors would have gone into retirement so there will still be a hole to fill.
    Well why don't they recruit even more then when you think how many people are rejected every year.
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    I did an Access to HE science course, and half the women were going into nursing, or midwifery. Plenty of people going into the healthcare professions. Medicine though, is a really tough hard degree, and takes years and years. But as (I believe) the NHS funds these degrees so no student loan debt, surprised more don't go into if there is a shortage. Maybe the entry requirements are too high (for good reason) and there's not enough smart people interested in the profession.
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    (Original post by karl pilkington)
    Well why don't they recruit even more then when you think how many people are rejected every year.
    The problem is more with retention, not with recruitment. 17/18 year olds will always be interested in going into medicine and even as a med student it's not always apparent just how messed up the system is. Training lots of new doctors but not actually addressing the reasons why they don't want to stay in the NHS or go into shortage specialties is totally pointless.
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    (Original post by karl pilkington)
    Well why don't they recruit even more then when you think how many people are rejected every year.
    Because it costs money and they dont have an unlimuted amount?
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    Cos it's expensive as balls and it takes a lot of time to train new doctors. Import them ready-made. Why can't people think of immigration as another form of trade?
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    (Original post by karl pilkington)
    This is not meant to be ****ging off foreign doctors but as they have recently increased the number of doctors they are gonna train how come they haven't done this sooner and why did they recruit so many doctors from overseas in the first place?
    Coming from a NHS background and speaking to Doctors, it is mainly to do with the 7 day working pressures, graduates from the UK finding better offers elsewhere in the world, a lack of Doctors in certain specialities hence having to recruit from abroad! Medical schools have only enough funding / resources for X number of students per year, the BMA regulate this really well unlike other professional bodies (naming no names!). I have come across Consultants from other countries (i.e. Sri Lanka) who come here starting from a Reg. position, which is a good system as they need to understand the system etc

    The rigorous process for recruiting Doctors is in place for a reason and should continue, in my opinion. Currently, there is more of a push for Pharmacists to become prescribers and to work with in GP practices (mainly to do with easing pressures out in the community which would in turn lower the Hospital admissions. But also good money saving, I bet you my bottom dollar that a locum independent prescriber's locum rate would be a1/3 of what a locum GP would get paid!

    Note: I have met some awesome abroad Doctors (as well as UK Doctors!)
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    Yeah I've noticed the push for pharmacist (who are legit medical experts) to have a more active and engaged role in community healthcare.
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    (Original post by RainbowMan)
    Cos it's expensive as balls and it takes a lot of time to train new doctors. Import them ready-made. Why can't people think of immigration as another form of trade?
    Because it's the age old Tory dilemma of striking a fine balance between encouraging free trade vs stoking anti-immigrant sentiments.
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    (Original post by 303Pharma)
    I did an Access to HE science course, and half the women were going into nursing, or midwifery. Plenty of people going into the healthcare professions. Medicine though, is a really tough hard degree, and takes years and years. But as (I believe) the NHS funds these degrees so no student loan debt, surprised more don't go into if there is a shortage. Maybe the entry requirements are too high (for good reason) and there's not enough smart people interested in the profession.
    Medicine only gets NHS funding from 5th year onwards, unlike other healthcare courses, which are fully funded, so medical students have to pay their tuition fees with loans like everyone else for the first four years.

    It also doesn't help the overall situation that the time it takes to train a doctor is longer than the duration of the average government, so it's too long-term an undertaking for it to be worth their while most of the time.
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    (Original post by 303Pharma)
    But as (I believe) the NHS funds these degrees so no student loan debt, surprised more don't go into if there is a shortage.
    All healthcare professions except doctors. Doctors have the highest student debt of any graduates - now more than £50,000 including maintenance loans.
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    (Original post by nexttime)
    All healthcare professions except doctors. Doctors have the highest student debt of any graduates - now more than £50,000 including maintenance loans.
    Yeah but at least they can earn some nice coin over their careers.
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    (Original post by 303Pharma)
    Yeah but at least they can earn some nice coin over their careers.
    Was just correcting a factual inaccuracy.

    You're right, of course, but remember that the hourly wage of a doctor does not overtake that of a newly qualified nurse until year 4. If you take two individuals, one starts med school the other starts nursing school, it will take in the region of 13 years before the doctor has earned more money (lots of variables here but an approximation), and they'll still have more debt and will have worked 33% longer paid hours in that period.

    Then after that its pretty well paid yeah. Far far less than 30 years ago but still true.
 
 
 
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