Which is better for your career - uni or an apprenticeship?
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Original post by Donkey******
The discussion is what's better for your career, degree or apprenticeship. I already have a career and as part of that I'm getting a university degree as part of it. Difference is, I'm already on the ladder, you'll be scraping around after graduation.
You appear to have taken something personally because I objected to your point of view.
Consider yourself lucky that you've had your education paid for you, rather than having to suffer the debts as many others do, even if it is in unfortunate circumstances.
You appear to have taken something personally because I objected to your point of view.
Consider yourself lucky that you've had your education paid for you, rather than having to suffer the debts as many others do, even if it is in unfortunate circumstances.
Of course I am lucky but my dad illness was terrible so I've been pretty low
your degree is called applied engineering and that isn't the same engineering degree people on your course have done?
Not really, you are with a firm and most of the time you cannot leave
Original post by samantham999
Of course I am lucky but my dad illness was terrible so I've been pretty low
your degree is called applied engineering and that isn't the same engineering degree people on your course have done?
Not really, you are with a firm and most of the time you cannot leave
your degree is called applied engineering and that isn't the same engineering degree people on your course have done?
Not really, you are with a firm and most of the time you cannot leave
Everyone gains a BEng on the course, it's all the same AEP degree, the modules are tailored to your place of work that's the whole point of it.
Original post by Donkey******
I haven't been rude in the slightest.
Apologies if your sense or privilege makes it difficult to deal with criticism. I'm sure mummy and daddy can send you some more money to help you through it.
Apologies if your sense or privilege makes it difficult to deal with criticism. I'm sure mummy and daddy can send you some more money to help you through it.
You were definitely being rude.
Original post by Donkey******
Everyone gains a BEng on the course, it's all the same AEP degree, the modules are tailored to your place of work that's the whole point of it.
so you did your a levels and joined a firm?
can you move to another firm?
doesn't an apprenticeship take longer? i mean the experience plus the years you apparently get a degree?
Original post by samantham999
so you did your a levels and joined a firm?
can you move to another firm?
doesn't an apprenticeship take longer? i mean the experience plus the years you apparently get a degree?
can you move to another firm?
doesn't an apprenticeship take longer? i mean the experience plus the years you apparently get a degree?
It's A level entry, I'd worked elsewhere before I joined, and did other things before coming back to engineering, but the current system is 6 years, 2 years to do a foundation degree and then 4 years doing the degree, but you get paid for it, and have a guaranteed job.
The new system is looking at 3 tiers, advanced, higher, degree so that if you have A -Levels, you would go straight into year 1 of the degree and then into work at the same time on the degree, with the higher including the foundation with a view to carry on to the degree.
It's a longer process, but it's less of a shock to the system, eases people who haven't worked before into what it's like to be in a job.
Original post by Donkey******
It's A level entry, I'd worked elsewhere before I joined, and did other things before coming back to engineering, but the current system is 6 years, 2 years to do a foundation degree and then 4 years doing the degree, but you get paid for it, and have a guaranteed job.
The new system is looking at 3 tiers, advanced, higher, degree so that if you have A -Levels, you would go straight into year 1 of the degree and then into work at the same time on the degree, with the higher including the foundation with a view to carry on to the degree.
It's a longer process, but it's less of a shock to the system, eases people who haven't worked before into what it's like to be in a job.
The new system is looking at 3 tiers, advanced, higher, degree so that if you have A -Levels, you would go straight into year 1 of the degree and then into work at the same time on the degree, with the higher including the foundation with a view to carry on to the degree.
It's a longer process, but it's less of a shock to the system, eases people who haven't worked before into what it's like to be in a job.
Cool, I guess its nice for some but many of us just wish to do a 3 year degree and get work and start our career from there (with the exception of med/dentistry)
Original post by samantham999
Cool, I guess its nice for some but many of us just wish to do a 3 year degree and get work and start our career from there (with the exception of med/dentistry)
But that brings us full circle, which is better for your career? After 6 years, I have 6 years industry experience, and a BEng from Warwick, and I'm already in a job, working for someone. If we both went for the same job, assuming it wasn't a graduate role, which route would be more successful?
Original post by Joinedup
Apprenticeships can send you to uni - with your fees paid 
Obv check you're not signing up to be an apprentice poundland shelf stacker if you want to be an engineer.
Obv check you're not signing up to be an apprentice poundland shelf stacker if you want to be an engineer.
I agree
Original post by Donkey******
But that brings us full circle, which is better for your career? After 6 years, I have 6 years industry experience, and a BEng from Warwick, and I'm already in a job, working for someone. If we both went for the same job, assuming it wasn't a graduate role, which route would be more successful?
Thats why uni students do internships so they get a full time offer, apprenticeships are longer anyway
Tbh, I still think going to university is better tbh and then maybe doing a masters and then working for a high ranked firm
Was there an option for you to study at lse/oxbridge/ucl?
In the end, its upto you really but the traditional route is a lot more versatile
Original post by samantham999
Thats why uni students do internships so they get a full time offer, apprenticeships are longer anyway
Tbh, I still think going to university is better tbh and then maybe doing a masters and then working for a high ranked firm
Was there an option for you to study at lse/oxbridge/ucl?
In the end, its upto you really but the traditional route is a lot more versatile
Tbh, I still think going to university is better tbh and then maybe doing a masters and then working for a high ranked firm
Was there an option for you to study at lse/oxbridge/ucl?
In the end, its upto you really but the traditional route is a lot more versatile
Again, there's potential to do your masters as part of your apprenticeship.
There was no choice of university, this apprenticeship sends you to Warwick, but you're based in the midlands and going on block release, so wouldn't make that much sense sending you to any of those universities, and besides, if you're at one of those universities you'll likely have an easier route into a career anyway.
For the majority of people the experience you'll gain and having 6 years under your belt is going to progress your career more than your degree.
Original post by Donkey******
Again, there's potential to do your masters as part of your apprenticeship.
There was no choice of university, this apprenticeship sends you to Warwick, but you're based in the midlands and going on block release, so wouldn't make that much sense sending you to any of those universities, and besides, if you're at one of those universities you'll likely have an easier route into a career anyway.
For the majority of people the experience you'll gain and having 6 years under your belt is going to progress your career more than your degree.
There was no choice of university, this apprenticeship sends you to Warwick, but you're based in the midlands and going on block release, so wouldn't make that much sense sending you to any of those universities, and besides, if you're at one of those universities you'll likely have an easier route into a career anyway.
For the majority of people the experience you'll gain and having 6 years under your belt is going to progress your career more than your degree.
When big firms hire students in their second, they are not expecting them to have any practical work experience like you do only if its very relevant to their career
tbh it doesn't make any difference but many of us dont want to do an apprenticeship as we believe the traditional route in a lot stronger and straight forward
Original post by samantham999
When big firms hire students in their second, they are not expecting them to have any practical work experience like you do only if its very relevant to their career
tbh it doesn't make any difference but many of us dont want to do an apprenticeship as we believe the traditional route in a lot stronger and straight forward
tbh it doesn't make any difference but many of us dont want to do an apprenticeship as we believe the traditional route in a lot stronger and straight forward
And the reason apprenticeships are becoming more popular is because people want to be self sufficient sooner and not have the burden of debts, or have to rely on handouts to gain an education.
As an alternative to university they work, and they're definitely growing in popularity in engineering especially. Plus they seem to feed you in at a higher grade than a traditional grad route would.
Is this not the whole point of this thread? To debate the merits of the two systems. As someone who has been down both, the apprenticeship is definitely a better way to go in terms of immediate career prospects. Once you've been in work 10 years, your degree isn't the most important thing anymore.
i think it strongly depends on what you want to do. I want to teach maths in a college (or be a lecturer, but becoming one is HARD) so i dont think apprenticeships help in teaching and/or maths in that sort of application.
Then again i'm intending on going to uni, so i havent researched anything at all to do with apprenticeships so i may be completely wrong
Then again i'm intending on going to uni, so i havent researched anything at all to do with apprenticeships so i may be completely wrong
isn't it highly dependent on the degree and the university. As an aggregate average I would assume apprenticeships thrash degrees. mainly because once you factor in the debt from a degree or outlay for it if you happen to have £60000 sitting around. not to mention the opportunity costs and loss work experience.
Factor this in with the fact that we now aim to send 50% of young people to university and this usually ends up with students that are either lazy or unable doing degrees which have to be dumbed down for them and the mickey mouse degrees etc.
However if we are talking about a stem degree from a prestigious university I doubt the same could be said. If for example you have a maths a strong maths degree from Oxbridge I highly doubt that will earn less on average then doing an apprenticeship in plumbing.
this question tends to be a bit weak though considering that there are numerous variable apprenticeships and degrees of different values.
for example I saw an apprenticeship admin assistant, this isn't the gateway into a lucrative career, However an apprenticeship accountant very may well be.
A first class honors from Cambridge in maths should definitely be a gateway into a lucrative career.
a 2:2 in media studies from anglia ruskin probably won't be.
their will be exceptions to every rule i am sure we will find a maths oxbirdge candidate working in a warehouse and Anglia ruskin graudate with 3rd class pulling in six figures etc. also I am sure some apprentership office assistant probably went on to pull in the big bucks.
However as averages go prestige of degree and quaity of apprentership speak volumes.
so it very much depends on the degree and the apprenticeship. I really think students should seriously consider if both options are viable or not. I made a list of 22 universities for maths degree. I have already decided if i fail to get the grades to get into any of these I either do an open university degree or i pack it in.
a maths degree from london metropolitan who ask for CCE for example probably will not pay for itself. I doubt I could go into a mathmatical career from that.
Factor this in with the fact that we now aim to send 50% of young people to university and this usually ends up with students that are either lazy or unable doing degrees which have to be dumbed down for them and the mickey mouse degrees etc.
However if we are talking about a stem degree from a prestigious university I doubt the same could be said. If for example you have a maths a strong maths degree from Oxbridge I highly doubt that will earn less on average then doing an apprenticeship in plumbing.
this question tends to be a bit weak though considering that there are numerous variable apprenticeships and degrees of different values.
for example I saw an apprenticeship admin assistant, this isn't the gateway into a lucrative career, However an apprenticeship accountant very may well be.
A first class honors from Cambridge in maths should definitely be a gateway into a lucrative career.
a 2:2 in media studies from anglia ruskin probably won't be.
their will be exceptions to every rule i am sure we will find a maths oxbirdge candidate working in a warehouse and Anglia ruskin graudate with 3rd class pulling in six figures etc. also I am sure some apprentership office assistant probably went on to pull in the big bucks.
However as averages go prestige of degree and quaity of apprentership speak volumes.
so it very much depends on the degree and the apprenticeship. I really think students should seriously consider if both options are viable or not. I made a list of 22 universities for maths degree. I have already decided if i fail to get the grades to get into any of these I either do an open university degree or i pack it in.
a maths degree from london metropolitan who ask for CCE for example probably will not pay for itself. I doubt I could go into a mathmatical career from that.
shiiiiitttt ^
University in my case as it's the only option into my chosen career
from googling apparently it is really close but graduates as an aggregate average just and I really do mean just. It is incredibly marginal beat apprenticeships. it was 1.8% lead. it amounts to £4 a month life time earnings difference.
http://www.independent.co.uk/student/career-planning/apprenticeships/apprentices-lifetime-earnings-more-that-university-graduates-career-planning-a7193536.html
several other articles that support this. However the salary expectation from different subjects and different caliber universities is massive. In a number of cases apprenticeships can earn upwards of 270% more then their graduate counterparts.
the gap is closing and in future it looks like it will be more economical to do apprenticeships. This is because the degrees averages are dragged down a lot by weaker universities and weaker subjects.
There is still a strong financial incentive to do a degree in a stem subject from a prestigious university.
I guess the generic advice would be if you get onto a course for a respectable subject at a respectable university it is worth it so go.
if your offered a place doing art and design at Bedfordshire university just do an apprentership or go into work instead. It is close to working at tesco as a shelf stacker.
btw this backs up my general points.
http://www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Earnings-by-Degrees-REPORT.pdf
i picked the lowest earning degree from that then looked for the worst university for the subject according to the complete university guide.
so if people want to nit pick have fun.
http://www.independent.co.uk/student/career-planning/apprenticeships/apprentices-lifetime-earnings-more-that-university-graduates-career-planning-a7193536.html
several other articles that support this. However the salary expectation from different subjects and different caliber universities is massive. In a number of cases apprenticeships can earn upwards of 270% more then their graduate counterparts.
the gap is closing and in future it looks like it will be more economical to do apprenticeships. This is because the degrees averages are dragged down a lot by weaker universities and weaker subjects.
There is still a strong financial incentive to do a degree in a stem subject from a prestigious university.
I guess the generic advice would be if you get onto a course for a respectable subject at a respectable university it is worth it so go.
if your offered a place doing art and design at Bedfordshire university just do an apprentership or go into work instead. It is close to working at tesco as a shelf stacker.
btw this backs up my general points.
http://www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Earnings-by-Degrees-REPORT.pdf
i picked the lowest earning degree from that then looked for the worst university for the subject according to the complete university guide.
so if people want to nit pick have fun.
Original post by Alisaurus Cats
A large proportion of parents now believe apprenticeships are better for their children's careers than degrees, according to this article.
With the cost of university rising, it's not just students who are noticing the strain; Some parents are 'expected to pay up to £5,372 a year' towards university costs' with the current loan structure and are now beginning to believe degrees may not be the quickest route to success.
Although apprentices initially start out with lower pay (the minimum wage is £3.30 an hour) there are many draws - including the prospect of long-term employment and an early career that starts out with far less debt than going the uni route. Which is one of the reasons why they are now looking so appealing.
I personally have a degree and think the uni experience (not necessarily the degree itself...) was one of the most valuable times in my life. Most importantly it gave me time and space to grow AND time and enough money to live off to get an internship in my final year (which started me off in my career).
I haven't got an apprenticeship but think it's a great way to start out. My boyfriend had a career change a few years ago and says looking back he wishes he had done an apprenticeship - as it would have got him where he wants to be quicker.
But which do you think is better for a career - uni degrees or apprenticeships?
With the cost of university rising, it's not just students who are noticing the strain; Some parents are 'expected to pay up to £5,372 a year' towards university costs' with the current loan structure and are now beginning to believe degrees may not be the quickest route to success.
Although apprentices initially start out with lower pay (the minimum wage is £3.30 an hour) there are many draws - including the prospect of long-term employment and an early career that starts out with far less debt than going the uni route. Which is one of the reasons why they are now looking so appealing.
I personally have a degree and think the uni experience (not necessarily the degree itself...) was one of the most valuable times in my life. Most importantly it gave me time and space to grow AND time and enough money to live off to get an internship in my final year (which started me off in my career).
I haven't got an apprenticeship but think it's a great way to start out. My boyfriend had a career change a few years ago and says looking back he wishes he had done an apprenticeship - as it would have got him where he wants to be quicker.
But which do you think is better for a career - uni degrees or apprenticeships?
To be honest I'm not surprised by this article. Literally when you apply for jobs most and nearly all job adverts require experience even when you graduate from university!
Apprenticeships are a really good idea for when you are young because you get to gain experience at the same time whereas at university you don't. Well most courses do sandwich placements but not all of them and thats a problem.
Also when you graduate from university you are automatically in debt and if you leave your full or part time job, the Student Loans Company will chase you like a mad hatter with threats to penalise you.
However getting a degree is also important as it shows you are capable of achieving something and if you move away from home to university it helps you build confidence, but university isn't everyone though.
I'm doing an apprenticeship and I'm happy because I know that it basically guarantees me a job at the end of it (And one in the NHS 
) however I can also use my apprenticeship to go to uni which I'm planning to do! Even though I could have taken another more academic route to uni (Doing another year or so in sixth form), I wanted to have actual experience working with patients first and a little break from exams. It also has helped/will help determine what kind of degree I want to do which seems to be nursing atm which itself is a very experience needed area. So imo I think both are really good as long as its what you WANT to do. I think the biggest difference in apprenticeships and degrees is that degrees are more likely to get you into a higher position in a job whilst with apprenticeships you kinda start from the bottom and have to work your way up which could take ages. For example I could probably end up being a important mental health care worker if I continued working but it would take years whilst that same amount of effort and time could be put into me getting a mental health nursing degree and to become head of a mental health department or a head nurse. And the reason for this because even though experience is really important, academics will be favoured and needed more for a higher position in any type of job.
) however I can also use my apprenticeship to go to uni which I'm planning to do! Even though I could have taken another more academic route to uni (Doing another year or so in sixth form), I wanted to have actual experience working with patients first and a little break from exams. It also has helped/will help determine what kind of degree I want to do which seems to be nursing atm which itself is a very experience needed area. So imo I think both are really good as long as its what you WANT to do. I think the biggest difference in apprenticeships and degrees is that degrees are more likely to get you into a higher position in a job whilst with apprenticeships you kinda start from the bottom and have to work your way up which could take ages. For example I could probably end up being a important mental health care worker if I continued working but it would take years whilst that same amount of effort and time could be put into me getting a mental health nursing degree and to become head of a mental health department or a head nurse. And the reason for this because even though experience is really important, academics will be favoured and needed more for a higher position in any type of job.Quick Reply
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