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    And I do agree with you that fundementalism can be a front, but that itself only partly excuses religion.
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    (Original post by john !!)
    And I do agree with you that fundementalism can be a front, but that itself only partly excuses religion.
    But why is religion "guilty" anymore than anti-globalisation is guilty. Or any more than animal rights is guilty. All these causes or beliefs have resulted in actions that are wrong and evil. What's special about religion that it can be guilty but the other beliefs not?
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    (Original post by john !!)
    So where are the extremist buddhists?
    Sri Lanka and Burma, primarily.
    Where is the atheist blowing up a church?
    All over Russia up until 1991, for starters.
    Granted it can happen, but then, there is no atheism book that we all subscribe to that can be misinterpreted.
    You don't need a book to have a generally-accepted core of beliefs. And those can then very easily be stretched into extreme forms by those with their own agenda, just as with any other credo. Consider that the US count of Communist (ie inherently atheist) terrorist groups is second only to that of Islamist terrorist groups.
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    (Original post by john !!)
    And I do agree with you that fundementalism can be a front, but that itself only partly excuses religion.
    "Partly" is all I'm asking for. I'm not trying to argue that religion is entirely blameless in all things.
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    (Original post by Mensan1)
    Why was he unreasonable in The root of all evil?
    He (quite rightly) went around denouncing some religious people for their unwavering attitudes and their unshakeable belief in the 'rightness' of their religious ideology, but then whenever he was talking he did exactly the same thing: he was totally unwilling to accept that he and his beliefs may be wrong, and semed to be just as narrow-minded as some he interveiwed.

    And he kept implying that because 'religion' has caused terrible things, religion itself must be wrong and we must we get rid of it. Surely scientific discoveries have led to terrible things (eg: splitting the atom led to the stomic weapon), but you wouldn't use it as an argument for abolishing science, would you? Is there not some logical inconsistency here?

    I'll definately watch the docu. tonight, though.
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    (Original post by geetar)
    I'll definitely watch the docu. tonight, though.
    Having participated extensively in this thread, I can't really not watch it
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    I'm looking forward to the comments after the programme describing him as a fundamentalist.

    I'll never forget Carl's comment.
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    (Original post by Phillip)
    I'm looking forward to the comments after the programme describing him as a fundamentalist.

    I'll never forget Carl's comment.
    Which was?
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    Which was?
    Richard Dawkins is just as much a Religious extremist as Osama Bin Laden.

    A comment he did not retract either.
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    Richard Dawkins is incredible. The astrologer guy in the former half of the show came off so bad lol.
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    oh ffs im misisng it. i cant even get a good reception, its all going so wrong.
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    You aren't missing much mate.
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    Well, it's just finished.

    And brilliant it was too.
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    To be honest, I’ve got a fair amount of respect for Dawkins. Fair enough, he has to water down arguments for the public and that generally destroys the nuance that makes great theories great theories, but i think people have got into the habit of just saying 'oh, heres that Dawkins :rolleyes:' and just dismissing him.

    Like his show next week, Its quite worrying really that 'alternative' medicine is actually becoming serious.

    I agree Dawkins could get a lot more done if he was less absolutist and more people would be willing to buy what he’s saying, but that's more a presentational problem that wouldn’t exactly need major changes in what he’s saying. I’m personally down with the points he made at the end of the show, people are getting lazy again and believing in post modern bull****.

    Feel free to do a roll eyes at me, but at its core a lot of what Dawkins is on about, even if he presents it in an overly absolutist manner, its reasonable, its not 'extreme' at all.

    As I say, I was initially surprised Dawkins got so popular, I thought society had got to the stage where the pretty superficial arguments he bangs out whenever he does a talk about organised religion being a bit dodgy were what most people sort of bought now. Obviously not.


    I know its easy to be arrogant and lazy and say ‘but you don’t get it’ or ‘he’s too superficial’, but that’s no reason to dismiss him. If people cant defend superficial arguments put to them reasonably then their own beliefs are hardily in much shape.
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    Yes showing loads of nut jobs (granted only saw last 35 minutes) and making snide remarks about God in between is brilliant. No bigotry here.
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    what do you expect for an hour long TV show?
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    (Original post by Sithius)
    Yes showing loads of nut jobs (granted only saw last 35 minutes) and making snide remarks about God in between is brilliant. No bigotry here.
    At last, we have the childish "bigot" "fundamentalist" comments. Keep 'em coming.
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    (Original post by Phillip)
    At last, we have the childish "bigot" "fundamentalist" comments. Keep 'em coming.
    Wow, irony? I thought you claimed to be rational?
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    (Original post by Sithius)
    Wow, irony? I thought you claimed to be rational?
    Didn't know reason cannot involve irony...

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    (Original post by phawkins1988)
    "Religion is the root of all evil (or at least, very bad)"
    "Why?"
    "Here are some fundamentalists!"

    ...
    Have you actualy watched the root of all evil? He reasoned his using of 'fundamentalists' like the President and huge Churches in the US, and silly disputes over walls and temples to make it quite clear that 'fundamentalism', a term you leisurely throw around at every opportunity, is actually far more significant than you would like people to think. If 'fundamentalists' happen to be the most powerful people in religion (e.g. the pope, the US President, Universities) then why the hell shouldn't he use that to make his point?

    When we've got popes condemning the use of condoms and US Presidents who are totally screwed by faith, it is perfectly reasonable to expect a little criticism every now and then! Religion gets an easy ride, especially in the US- the very fact that the lesser-educated people of faith have created such an enormous evangelical shit-storm around Dawkins is very telling indeed, many people are clearly terrified of criticism - which is understandable. If you really had 'faith', which I doubt you have personally, then why would you give a toss what Dawkins has to say?

    And for the record - Dawkins has said countless times that he despised the name of the programme, but channel 4 insisted on it. I'm pretty sure when it aired in other countries (canada?) it had a completely different name.

    Agh, and I can't believe I have just missed this programme!!
 
 
 
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