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Is British politics moving away from a left-right distinction?

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    ...and towards instead a nationalist-internationalist, or working class - liberal middle class one?

    Especially given how May's speech was very left economically and right wing socially.
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    globalist vs nationalist/protectionist/localist etc.*

    *
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    ...and towards instead a nationalist-internationalist, or working class - liberal middle class one?

    Especially given how May's speech was very left economically and right wing socially.
    Potentially. Although I do not think we have an internationalist party in this country. Corbyn speaks about wanting immigration, but is often contradicted by key players in the party, there is no consensus over any of their positions yet.

    Until Labour manages to put forward a coherent policy platform it is difficult to make any solid arguments about the political landscape of the UK.
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    In parts yes.

    We seem to be moving towards a post liberal consensus
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Especially given how May's speech was very left economically
    Assuming you actually believe what she says and do not immediately dismiss it as rhetoric.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    ...and towards instead a nationalist-internationalist, or working class - liberal middle class one?

    Especially given how May's speech was very left economically and right wing socially.
    UK is becoming more socialist as the years go by, so Conservatives must keep up. You can compare Tories to Democrats in USA, thats how we are shifting comparing to the world.
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    But what does 'working class' mean, anyway? It's already been dropped from the latest sociological models - we now have amongst other the 'Precariat'. What we used to think of as the old working class hardly exists any longer - they are the 'victims' of globalisation, technological innovation and cultural change within their communities. They've been abandoned by New Labour, sneered at by Cameron and largely embraced by UKIP. Now UKIP is toast, where next for them? Which extreme group will sniff them out as an opportunity?

    There's obviously a nice clear divide between parochial, Daily Mail reading Middle England and metropolitan liberal elites (broadly May v Cameron) but it's far more nuanced than that.
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    (Original post by Reality Check)
    But what does 'working class' mean, anyway? It's already been dropped from the latest sociological models - we now have amongst other the 'Precariat'. What we used to think of as the old working class hardly exists any longer - they are the 'victims' of globalisation, technological innovation and cultural change within their communities. They've been abandoned by New Labour, sneered at by Cameron and largely embraced by UKIP. Now UKIP is toast, where next for them? Which extreme group will sniff them out as an opportunity?

    There's obviously a nice clear divide between parochial, Daily Mail reading Middle England and metropolitan liberal elites (broadly May v Cameron) but it's far more nuanced than that.
    *When May speaks of the working class she means it in the sense of people who are struggling to get by but are in work.

    A poll this year I think showed that 60% of Britons see themselves as working class even though there's nowhere near that many traditional working class jobs.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    *When May speaks of the working class she means it in the sense of people who are struggling to get by but are in work.

    A poll this year I think showed that 60% of Britains see themselves as working class even though there's nowhere near that many traditional working class jobs.
    She does, but that definition encompasses far more than the traditional working class. May has just rebranded Thatcher's target market of people who, for the first time, had a bit of money but wanted to get on further, and embellished it with a notion that the rewards of the recovery have not been equably shared. None of it is new, of course, but her presentation is interesting. She is our anti-establishment establishment PM.

    I remember that poll and it did make me laugh. It's the same notion as if you poll people as to what religion they are, and you always end up with about 60% saying Christian, yet about 1% would have actually practised any form of christianity in the form of collective worship.
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    (Original post by Reality Check)
    She does, but that definition encompasses far more than the traditional working class. May has just rebranded Thatcher's target market of people who, for the first time, had a bit of money but wanted to get on further, and embellished it with a notion that the rewards of the recovery have not been equably shared. None of it is new, of course, but her presentation is interesting. She is our anti-establishment establishment PM.

    I remember that poll and it did make me laugh. It's the same notion as if you poll people as to what religion they are, and you always end up with about 60% saying Christian, yet about 1% would have actually practised any form of christianity in the form of collective worship.
    May seems to be campaigning against herself. She had one of the most major roles in government in the last six year.*
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    May seems to be campaigning against herself. She had one of the most major roles in government in the last six year.*
    So did Boris...
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Potentially. Although I do not think we have an internationalist party in this country. Corbyn speaks about wanting immigration, but is often contradicted by key players in the party, there is no consensus over any of their positions yet.

    Until Labour manages to put forward a coherent policy platform it is difficult to make any solid arguments about the political landscape of the UK.
    Yeah, but it's not really about the political parties. There are many like me who are members of one of the Big Three who feel a great deal of affinity with the liberal, internationalist members in the other two. Often more affinity than we see with the leaders of our own parties.

    While it's really too early to judge her actions, Theresa May seems to have moved away from the liberalism and internationalism of Cameron (yes, of course, he had his shortcomings in this regard - but we're painting with a broad brush here). There are plenty of Tories who feel alienated by this. Just as many people in the Labour Party don't much like their swing to the left.

    Some of what May said in her conference speech seemed like a direct attack on us, within her own party. So too, the centrists in the Lib Dems and Labour seem fairly alienated at present. There's a split there, but it doesn't necessary follow party lines.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Yeah, but it's not really about the political parties. There are many like me who are members of one of the Big Three who feel a great deal of affinity with the liberal, internationalist members in the other two. Often more affinity than we see with the leaders of our own parties.

    While it's really too early to judge her actions, Theresa May seems to have moved away from the liberalism and internationalism of Cameron (yes, of course, he had his shortcomings in this regard - but we're painting with a broad brush here). There are plenty of Tories who feel alienated by this. Just as many people in the Labour Party don't much like their swing to the left.

    Some of what May said in her conference speech seemed like a direct attack on us, within her own party. So too, the centrists in the Lib Dems and Labour seem fairly alienated at present. There's a split there, but it doesn't necessary follow party lines.
    Agreed. It's why I made this post. For the last few decades it really has seemed a case of left v right but the referendum really seemed to change that.

    Quite a few labour and Tory MPs seemed to get on far better with one another than they did with many in their own parties. The question becomes do liberal tories like Morgan, Osborne and Soubry see more in common with the likes of Umunna, Jarvis and Clegg than they do with May? And are they willing to join forces?

    * I'm not quite sure what I'd say the dividing lines are now, but it doesn't seem simply a case of right v left, like it used to.*
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    In parts yes.

    We seem to be moving towards a post liberal consensus
    The only things I liked about Cameron and Osborne was their fairly social liberal attitudes, as well as their internationalism.

    May seems to want to pull up the drawbridge and close the curtains.*
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    ...and towards instead a nationalist-internationalist, or working class - liberal middle class one?

    Especially given how May's speech was very left economically and right wing socially.
    Hhmm maybe. We see people who consider themselves highly left-wing espousing the righteousness of the EU even though it's a corporate protection racket and right-wingers who on one hand support UKIP, who are Tories who are too Tory to be Tory, and giving their full backing to the downtrodden working person at the same time and saying that the EU corporate protection racket must be lifted from their lives as it works against them. Consider that this is both Tony Benn and Corbyn's view. *

    But who knows? Strange times we live in. Perhaps it's a growth in nuance among people as we do live in an age where information is far more readily available to all. Interesting question though, so repped.
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