Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

The fall of internationalism. Watch

Announcements
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    We are witnessing or have indeed witnessed the fall of a central tenet in mainstream foreign policy- that if internationalism.

    Although it's a very broad definition to me it means that there are things that are universal in nature and that there exist good and bad things that apply to people regardless of where they happen to live. Child brides and genital mutilation is just as Abhorrent in Gaza as it is London. The regressive left and right are against this for different reasons-

    The regressive left (RL) are against this because it goes against their multiculturalist leanings (or worse, because it's a bedrock against Zionism and the US) and the regressive right (RR) are against this because it supports their notion of tribalism and tradition.

    In most recent times internationalism has been paired with a desire to stop practices which are universally wrong- namely genocide which began under Blairs intervention in Kosovo which united the RR and RL in opposition to preventing ethnic cleansing-thus among other things causing a trench if socialists (C.Hitchens in particular) to leave their erstwhile comrades in disgust.

    Yet, however much i and others demonise regressives whose absurd, disgusting, conspiratorial views are an embarrassment (bravely fighting the evil establishment in the safety of their parents basement), a large degree if not the majority of the blame is self inflicted and can also explain why the UK voted Brexit ( the EU being loosely internationalist)

    The three main internationalist spokespeople in the U.K. Today are Blair, Clegg and Osbourne, who are utterly loathed by the electorate and with good reason.

    It is hard to be an internationalist when there leaders are despised, your living standards are poor and multiculturalism has failed. This is an open goal for regressives of all hues just as it was in the 1930s.

    Whilst I dislike Nay and her rhetoric especially I think that the general tone of the Conservative party has captured the public mood. What internationalists need to do is to paint a more pragmatic vision as to what internationalism entails rather than the despicable immoral pseudo relativism encapsulated by the regressives,

    As ever- the best position is gradualism. We should look to others ethical well being abroad but we must never lose sight of being in power and what that means- improving the lives of our citizenry and listening to their concerns (by limiting immigration as much as feasibly possible unlike the RL) - though not at any cost ( e.g. Selling bombs and torture equipment to evil despots as the RR would have us do)
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    It feels like under May that we want to pull up the draw bridge, close the curtains and hope all our problems just go away.

    I have no doubt that we will reduce immigration but what i worry *about is what happens when people find out that reducing immigration doesn't increase their wages, doesn't give them better job security and doesn't solve all our problems? Who will be blamed next?

    What happens when those at the bottom find out that their lives are broadly the same after we've left the EU? And that public services continue to be stretched because they are seriously underfunded.
    *
    Already we are seeing ludicrous suggestions like halting foreign students and naming and shaming companies for hiring foreign workers.*

    I welcome May's apparent distrust of neoliberalism but I could never accept her social authoritarianism. For all Cameron's faults at least he was outward looking and recognised that global problems had global solutions and that there isn't a problem that we cannot tackle more effectively with our allies.

    We are becoming little England and it scares me.*
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    It feels like under May that we want to pull up the draw bridge, close the curtains and hope all our problems just go away.

    I have no doubt that we will reduce immigration but what i worry *about is what happens when people find out that reducing immigration doesn't increase their wages, doesn't give them better job security and doesn't solve all our problems? Who will be blamed next?

    What happens when those at the bottom find out that their lives are broadly the same after we've left the EU? And that public services continue to be stretched because they are seriously underfunded.
    *
    Already we are seeing ludicrous suggestions like halting foreign students and naming and shaming companies for hiring foreign workers.*

    I welcome May's apparent distrust of neoliberalism but I could never accept her social authoritarianism. For all Cameron's faults at least he was outward looking and recognised that global problems had global solutions and that there isn't a problem that we cannot tackle more effectively with our allies.

    We are becoming little England and it scares me.*
    Broadly agree

    As for who will we blame next we can only hope that things settle down - already we. An see ukip imploding and when Corbyn Is trashed in 2020 a generation of people will hopefully re-examine themselves, especially if they do something like canvassing. For all our talk on Mays madder side she does promise to be quite a dull PM and that coujd wel bE something we need.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    For all Cameron's faults at least he was outward looking and recognised that global problems had global solutions and that there isn't a problem that we cannot tackle more effectively with our allies.
    *
    I don't call agreeing to hold a referendum on Europe mainly to solve divisions in his party 'outward looking'. Flashman got us into a terrible mess and then waltzed away to the after-dinner speaking circuit.
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davij038)
    Broadly agree

    As for who will we blame next we can only hope that things settle down - already we. An see ukip imploding and when Corbyn Is trashed in 2020 a generation of people will hopefully re-examine themselves, especially if they do something like canvassing. For all our talk on Mays madder side she does promise to be quite a dull PM and that coujd wel bE something we need.
    I fear that when we reduce immigration and that doesn't prove to be the magic cure, that the press and UKIP will argue that the problem is they haven't reduced it enough, then they'll argue that we still have foreigners living here.

    I'm a proud internationalist. I disagree immensely with Cameron but his best line during the referendum was that 'if we leave our problems don't go away, we just have less say in how to solve them'.

    I genuinely believe that the current issues we face today are global in nature, whether that's the effect of the demise of the working class, the rise of tax dodgers, global warming, terrorism and extremism, poverty etc. All can be dealt with more effectively by working with our allies rather than closing our door and shouting 'we're not in'.*

    I don't have a massive issue with nationalism in general, but unlike Scottish nationalism, English nationalism is very inward looking, exclusionary and based on race/ethnicity. *
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Should Spain allow Catalonia to declare independence?
    Useful resources

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.