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    (Original post by JohnyJ)
    Unfortunately, its a vicious circle that can be hard to penetrate. Getting relevant work experience is extremely difficult, and because of the competition for internships etc, you need to have strong A-levels and a good university just to get that experience. Thus university reputation is important.
    You need a 2:1 to get on the grad schemes, many will reject you straight off with a 2:2 even if it is from Oxford. We have many grad schemes that require a 2:1 and a certain number of UCAS points for access, given that people from further up the hierarchy are more likely to possess these things then they are generally more likely to get on the schemes. However, for the individual I don't think it is so clear, because if you have the 2.1 and the UCAS points then your CV is going to get a look in and then it is all to do with extra experience that makes you stand out, and if you have that experience then you are in with a good chance, regardless of what name it has at the top of your degree certificate.
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    (Original post by ChemistBoy)
    You need a 2:1 to get on the grad schemes, many will reject you straight off with a 2:2 even if it is from Oxford.
    i was reading earlier if you have an unconditional offer then it doesnt matter. i read earlier that someone with a 3rd from Oxford is in FO at Credit Suisse?
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    (Original post by Bleached)
    Edit: Looking at your list of potential universities. and i mean you said people develop intelectually, would others so the difference will be proportional?
    I'm still not sure I understand your point. All I was responding to was the idea that people who get below BBB at A level will be barred from some jobs, regardless of how well they do at degree level. I'm saying that perhaps this is wrong, as people can develop intellectually at university, and that A levels shouldn't really matter after one graduates.
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    (Original post by ChemistBoy)
    You need a 2:1 to get on the grad schemes, many will reject you straight off with a 2:2 even if it is from Oxford. We have many grad schemes that require a 2:1 and a certain number of UCAS points for access, given that people from further up the hierarchy are more likely to possess these things then they are generally more likely to get on the schemes. However, for the individual I don't think it is so clear, because if you have the 2.1 and the UCAS points then your CV is going to get a look in and then it is all to do with extra experience that makes you stand out, and if you have that experience then you are in with a good chance, regardless of what name it has at the top of your degree certificate.
    This is certainly true where I work. Our graduate coordinator doesn't even look at applications from people with below a 2:1 (regardless of which institution its from) and she picks her shortlist for interview based on the essays that have to be written for the application. I can guarantee you she pays no mind to which uni people have graduated from, Oxbridge won't impress her if the essay isn't up to scratch

    Obviously, I can't speak for everywhere though - I imagine there is benefit to coming from a top 10 uni for jobs in the really big firms (where they have so many applicants fitting their criteria they have to distinguish between them one way or another) but I doubt very much it is the same for the majority.
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    (Original post by Agamemnon)
    I'm still not sure I understand your point. All I was responding to was the idea that people who get below BBB at A level will be barred from some jobs, regardless of how well they do at degree level. I'm saying that perhaps this is wrong, as people can develop intellectually at university, and that A levels shouldn't really matter after one graduates.
    They shouldn't.. I think you'll find they do though. Obviously getting a 1st in a discipline relevant to the job you are applying for will supercede your A level results but if your degree is in English and you are applying for a Finance role then they will naturally look back to A levels (even GCSEs) to figure out your aptitude for numbers.. I don't agree with the assumption that below a BBB will put you out of the running for jobs despite a good degree result though (that is just scare-mongering)
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    They shouldn't.. I think you'll find they do though. Obviously getting a 1st in a discipline relevant to the job you are applying for will supercede your A level results...
    Even that is dependent on the way companies screen applicants. If they use automated computer filtering to remove people based on A-level results then there is a good chance your application would get canned before a person even saw your degree classification.
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    You need a 2:1 to get on the grad schemes, many will reject you straight off with a 2:2 even if it is from Oxford. We have many grad schemes that require a 2:1 and a certain number of UCAS points for access, given that people from further up the hierarchy are more likely to possess these things then they are generally more likely to get on the schemes. However, for the individual I don't think it is so clear, because if you have the 2.1 and the UCAS points then your CV is going to get a look in and then it is all to do with extra experience that makes you stand out, and if you have that experience then you are in with a good chance, regardless of what name it has at the top of your degree certificate.
    Sorry, I didn't explain, my argument was based on the assumption that you received a 2.1.

    With so many 2.1s out there, companies begin to filter through other means, including university name and a-levels. I am of course talking for the highest level jobs and the biggest companies, but this in itself has a huge impact on earnings.

    The fact remains that even with a good degree from a reputable university, you are not on a level playing field when it comes to opportunities.
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    Does EVERYONE on TSR want to go into investment banking? Seriously, jobs in IB only make up a small percentage of all graduate jobs. This site doesn't half give people a warped image of how the world works.

    If going to a uni with a lot of prestige is so vital to getting a job, why aren't more people unemployed?
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    (Original post by luckysmartie)
    Does EVERYONE on TSR want to go into investment banking? Seriously, jobs in IB only make up a small percentage of all graduate jobs. This site doesn't half give people a warped image of how the world works.

    If going to a uni with a lot of prestige is so vital to getting a job, why aren't more people unemployed?
    Aha - the rare valid point ^^^

    *applause*
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    who mentioned IB?


    If going to a uni with a lot of prestige is so vital to getting a job, why aren't more people unemployed?
    It isn't about being able to get a job...in the long run. Its about the level of job you want. Sure a grad with a 2.1 from a middle ranking Uni could become a store manager or something, but why should they settle for that when they are just as qualified to work for the Foreign Office or a consultancy or accountancy firm as someone with a 2.1 from Oxford, but don't get the chance because of ingrained bias?

    This is about moving up in society and achieving your potential, and the system does make that more difficult for some.

    The fact is, if you are a really ambitious person, whatever your ambition, going to Warwick will further you chances of achieving your goals, not because the teaching is any better than Essex or UEA, but because it is perceived to be in wider society.

    This isn't a trend that is limited to IB (though it is certainly manifested there more than most sectors), but is applicable in a vast range of careers.
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    (Original post by luckysmartie)
    Does EVERYONE on TSR want to go into investment banking? Seriously, jobs in IB only make up a small percentage of all graduate jobs. This site doesn't half give people a warped image of how the world works.

    If going to a uni with a lot of prestige is so vital to getting a job, why aren't more people unemployed?
    Hi LuckySmartie,
    Its not jsut getting a job, its about getting a job that is one that pays the best in the industry. for normal grad jobs like teaching etc, i have never even looked at, purely because the pays is nothing compared to IB, and With the current situation in the market it such an interesting time to learn.
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    (Original post by Bleached)
    no offense, are you saying that because your arnt going to one? following on from what you just said, wouldnt the other people also develop?

    Edit: Looking at your list of potential universities. and i mean you said people develop intelectually, would others so the difference will be proportional?
    Ah, I understand what you mean now. You're saying that people at the top universities are just as likely to develop intellectually as well. A good point. However, I still think how one performs at degree level should be what the employer considers, not A levels.
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    (Original post by Agamemnon)
    Ah, I understand what you mean now. You're saying that people at the top universities are just as likely to develop intellectually as well. A good point. However, I still think how one performs at degree level should be what the employer considers, not A levels.
    But if two people are identical now, how would you decide who has a better "track record" if you like? thats when they start looking at a-levels right?
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    (Original post by Bleached)
    But if two people are identical now, how would you decide who has a better "track record" if you like? thats when they start looking at a-levels right?
    Shame really, because if two people are identical now then it doesn't really matter what they were like 3 or 4 years ago.. in fact the person with worse A level results is showing a better improvement curve overall. It shouldn't matter, as Agamemnon says, but sadly it seems to (sometimes - not all the time)
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    (Original post by Bleached)
    But if two people are identical now, how would you decide who has a better "track record" if you like? thats when they start looking at a-levels right?
    I don't know, when and how they're used in the employment process. The poster mentioned that you need BBB+ at A level to get a training contract for Law. I don't know how they're used in other fields.

    EDIT - I would hope that A levels are not really used in the employment process, and how well you do in your degree should be decisive. It is how you are when you graduate that should matter, not how much you have improved or not improved from your A level results (you seem to be suggesting that employers should see who has improved on their A level results?)
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    (Original post by Agamemnon)
    I don't know, when and how they're used in the employment process. The poster mentioned that you need BBB+ at A level to get a training contract for Law. I don't know how they're used in other fields.

    EDIT - I would hope that A levels are not really used in the employment process, and how well you do in your degree should be decisive. It is how you are when you graduate that should matter, not how much you have improved or not improved from your A level results (you seem to be suggesting that employers should see who has improved on their A level results?)
    Thats not how it is though im afraid those are the realities. The best grad schemes specifiy minimum A Level points as well.
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    (Original post by simon123)
    Thats not how it is though im afraid those are the realities. The best grad schemes specifiy minimum A Level points as well.
    I accept that, I'm just saying how things perhaps should be, in an ideal world.
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    (Original post by Agamemnon)
    I accept that, I'm just saying how things perhaps should be, in an ideal world.

    I dont think it should be. I worked hard to get AAAa and go to a top university. I think that should count for something. Its harder to get a 2.1 the better the university you go to. I dont get this idea that a 2.1 is equal from everywhere. I am sure that the top universitys start at a higher level as they have a higher quality of candidates.
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    I dont think it should be. I worked hard to get AAAa and go to a top university. I think that should count for something. Its harder to get a 2.1 the better the university you go to. I dont get this idea that a 2.1 is equal from everywhere. I am sure that the top universitys start at a higher level as they have a higher quality of candidates.
    Maybe if you are comparing Oxford to the University of East London or something. But taking the universities mentioned in the thread, Warwick, Essex and UEA, achieving a 2.1 at either will be equally difficult.

    Your A-levels did count for something in that it got you to a top Uni. However should they play a part in your employability post-graduation? I don't think so. (unless it is a math or language competency that is required if you don't have a related degree). Thats assessing your abilities at age 18, not your current ability.The fact is some people do take time to develop academically.

    Beyond this, A-level results can be influenced by all sorts of factors. Where you went to school is a huge influence. Those lucky enough to have the social background to go to Harrow will likely fair much better than those from a comprehensive in Hackney.

    University is really the first place where people from all over can receive a similar level of education. Therefore more emphasis should be placed on candidate's achievements at this stage rather than before.
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    I think it's all relative. With a field like Investment Banking, the hours are longer, there is seemingly increased pressure to perform well (by making money) which can have detrimental affects on someone's emotional well being, and it's the select few who "excel" in this field. If actually enjoy doing it, then good for them.

    I also think it would be more challenging to achieve a 2.1 at somewhere like Warwick than at Essex.
 
 
 
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