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    US cannot account for 190,000 guns in Iraq: report

    Posted Wed Aug 1, 2007 8:00pm AEST

    According to an investigation carried out by the US Government Accountability Office (GOA), the US cannot account for 190,000 weapons issued to Iraqi security forces in 2004 and 2005.

    According to the July 31 report, the military "cannot fully account for about 110,000 AK-47 assault rifles, 80,000 pistols, 135,000 items of body armour and 115,000 helmets reported as issued to Iraqi forces."

    The weapons disappeared from records between June 2004 and September 2005, as the military struggled to rebuild the disbanded Iraqi forces from scratch amid mounting attacks from Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias.

    US commanders often accuse foreign powers, such as Iran, of supplying arms to illegal militias fighting in Iraq, but the report shows they cannot fully account for the hundreds thousands of weapons they brought in themselves.

    Last month, Turkey raised concerns over reports that separatist Kurdish guerrillas launching cross-border raids from northern Iraq had received US-supplied guns supposedly destined for Iraqi security forces.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...01/1994397.htm
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    Part of me simply wants to say: it's a war, what do you expect? People are too busy trying not to die to keep immaculate records of what is where.
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    (Original post by enthusiast24)
    US cannot account for 190,000 guns in Iraq: report

    Posted Wed Aug 1, 2007 8:00pm AEST

    According to an investigation carried out by the US Government Accountability Office (GOA), the US cannot account for 190,000 weapons issued to Iraqi security forces in 2004 and 2005.

    According to the July 31 report, the military "cannot fully account for about 110,000 AK-47 assault rifles, 80,000 pistols, 135,000 items of body armour and 115,000 helmets reported as issued to Iraqi forces."

    The weapons disappeared from records between June 2004 and September 2005, as the military struggled to rebuild the disbanded Iraqi forces from scratch amid mounting attacks from Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias.

    US commanders often accuse foreign powers, such as Iran, of supplying arms to illegal militias fighting in Iraq, but the report shows they cannot fully account for the hundreds thousands of weapons they brought in themselves.

    Last month, Turkey raised concerns over reports that separatist Kurdish guerrillas launching cross-border raids from northern Iraq had received US-supplied guns supposedly destined for Iraqi security forces.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...01/1994397.htm

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    How would they account for them? They issued them to the Iraqis. Seems to me that its the Iraqis that havn't got the foggiest idea what's been done with them.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    How would they account for them? They issued them to the Iraqis. Seems to me that its the Iraqis that havn't got the foggiest idea what's been done with them.
    This is also true. Giving a crapload of weaponry to a corps of men whose loyalty and competence are questionable at best is not in the Top Ten Best Ideas Ever.
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    This is also true. Giving a crapload of weaponry to a corps of men whose loyalty and competence are questionable at best is not in the Top Ten Best Ideas Ever.
    Well, that's a whole n'other story.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    How would they account for them? They issued them to the Iraqis. Seems to me that its the Iraqis that havn't got the foggiest idea what's been done with them.
    They do know. They give them to their buddies in Shi'a militias. Heck, the Iraqi government just got caught trying to buy 100,000 AK47s from the Italian mafia. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    They do know. They give them to their buddies in Shi'a militias. Heck, the Iraqi government just got caught trying to buy 100,000 AK47s from the Italian mafia. :rolleyes:
    Haha! And we're actually wasting lives and money trying to help these people? ****'em I say.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    They do know. They give them to their buddies in Shi'a militias. Heck, the Iraqi government just got caught trying to buy 100,000 AK47s from the Italian mafia. :rolleyes:
    LOL. Source? I don't disbelieve you, I'm just curious to know more.
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    US commanders often accuse foreign powers, such as Iran, of supplying arms to illegal militias fighting in Iraq, but the report shows they cannot fully account for the hundreds thousands of weapons they brought in themselves.
    This sentence left me thinking: "huh? Oh, I see."

    It's a total non-sequitor that seems to reveal a certain bias in the reporting.

    Further to the "what do you expect" reaction, I'd like to leave a "yeah..and?" reaction.
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    This sentence left me thinking: "huh? Oh, I see."

    It's a total non-sequitor that seems to reveal a certain bias in the reporting.
    Yeah, the first response is a sort of "what's that got to do with it?"
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    LOL. Source? I don't disbelieve you, I'm just curious to know more.
    http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/w...arabellum.html What a freakin joke
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    Part of me simply wants to say: it's a war, what do you expect? People are too busy trying not to die to keep immaculate records of what is where.
    Immaculate records? It's One hundred and ninety THOUSAND, not nineteen... That's probably an entire cargo ship full of guns and ammo, vanished off the face of the earth. Someone sure as hell knows where they are.
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    (Original post by Dionysus)
    Immaculate records? It's One hundred and ninety THOUSAND, not nineteen... That's probably an entire cargo ship full of guns and ammo, vanished off the face of the earth. Someone sure as hell knows where they are.
    But we don't know the context of how many guns there are.

    According to this BBC webpage there are at least 200 million guns in private posession in the US. 190,000 would be less than 0.1% of that number. So losing 190,000 may sound like a lot but it may in fact be a very small fraction.
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    I can't help feel there is something not quite right here.

    I don't believe for a second that the US government is unintentionally that lazy and lax. Secondly I can't see why it's been reported. C'mon, it wouldn't be hard to cover something like this up.

    100'000 rifles don't just go missing, even if it is a comparatively small figure.
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    (Original post by Richy_Boi)
    I can't help feel there is something not quite right here.

    I don't believe for a second that the US government is unintentionally that lazy and lax. Secondly I can't see why it's been reported. C'mon, it wouldn't be hard to cover something like this up.

    100'000 rifles don't just go missing, even if it is a comparatively small figure.
    Are you suggesting that the US intentionally misplaced 190,000 guns in order to illicitley arm the insurgency?

    You're right in seeing something "not quite right", and that is a worrying logistic organisation on behalf of one of the worlds most advanced and largest military forces.

    I agree, in war things do go missing; however, to have no causal link between supplier and reciever is a big mistake, and the very fact that there exists a whitehouse accountability committee in order to question this loss suggests a continued lapse of purpose and delivery.
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    What the hell were the Italian Mafia doing with 100,000 AKs? It's not like Italy is like Mogadishu where people just walk around with them for bant. They're hardly subtle, what were the doing with them?
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    (Original post by DanGrover)
    What the hell were the Italian Mafia doing with 100,000 AKs? It's not like Italy is like Mogadishu where people just walk around with them for bant. They're hardly subtle, what were the doing with them?
    Selling them on, obviously.

    I wonder just how many AKs exist in the world at the moment. I'm betting its high enough to make 190,000 look like a very small number.
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    But surely the Italian mafia selling Russian (or Eastern) guns to the Middle East is like Tesco selling Indian coffee to Australia? There must be more efficient - and thus cheaper - ways?
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    Selling them on, obviously.

    I wonder just how many AKs exist in the world at the moment. I'm betting its high enough to make 190,000 look like a very small number.
    There was actually a popular history written about the AK recently. If I remember the name of the author or the text, I'll post it on here.

    Is there any way to tell a US AK from any other? Stamps, prints?
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    (Original post by Catsmeat)
    There was actually a popular history written about the AK recently. If I remember the name of the author or the text, I'll post it on here.

    Is there any way to tell a US AK from any other? Stamps, prints?
    They wouldn't have been made in the US but probably shipped directly from the country of manufacture. The US will have at least the serial numbers of all the weapons, which will be stamped on them somewhere- I think it's pretty standard practise to file this off though...
 
 
 
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