STEM students should pay higher tuition fees

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    I believe that students studying STEM subjects at university should pay higher tuition fees than non-STEM students because, on average, STEM students go on to work in highly paid jobs so are more likely to pay back student loans. Students who want to study non-STEM subjects like Media Studies, Art, Music, History, etc. should still be allowed to study those subjects, because education is vital, and people are entitled to study whatever they want. But these subjects, on average, tend to lead to lower-paid employment and often even minimum-wage work. So students end up with ridiculous debt that they can't afford to pay back over their working lives.Tuition fees for STEM students should be £9,000 a year. For non-STEM students: about £3,000 a year. STEM students get better teaching facilities and debt that they can pay back in full when they start work. Non-STEM students are left with much less debt which they might also be able to pay back in full when they go into lower-paid work. Both sides win... 😃
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    Sure, why not. As a STEM student I'll (hopefully) be going into a research role where I'll never earn enough money to start paying back my loans anyway.
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    Should your tuition fees depend on the prestige of the uni you go to then? Since clearly, by going to a better uni, you will earn more so you should pay more?

    A degree is a degree mate. Shouldn't matter what it is in - same price for all
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    Yeah this is a really bad idea and here is why.

    You are penalizing people for making sensible economic decisions and subsidizing ones that are not economical. We want to improve our work force not devalue it with such a method.

    Students should have to pay more for a degree based on how much people who do that degree statistically make. If anything it should be the opposite we should want to encourage stem subjects because they are more valuable to the economy and will help improve our country.

    If you could produce relevant numbers like Stem subjects require X amount of lecture time per week then that might be more of a case. Students paying relative to what they actually get. Eg maybe courses/universities that provide insufficient contact time cannot charge as much as others.

    We should want to encourage disciplined useful degrees and discourage mickey mouse degrees. not the reverse.

    The problem with communism is it discourages hard work which is really bad for an economy.

    Your proposal is terrible.
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    Another thing is that STEM students have 30 hour contact times while humanities have around 5 hours max. We got to standardise the price of lectures.
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    (Original post by hellomynameisr)
    A degree is a degree mate. Shouldn't matter what it is in - same price for all
    Nice sentiment, though I do wonder if basing tution fees on the following wouldn't be a bad idea:

    The ability of a person earning an average wage for someone who got an average (grade in a particular) degree to pay back student loans.

    Seems like a fairer system than just STEM students pay more, it would also give a good idea of which degrees gets people (on average) the best jobs.

    That way people would actually be paying for their degree as opposed to uni's milking us all for as much money as the government allows them to. Well actually that would still occur, but the tuition fees would better reflect the quality of the degree.
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    (Original post by hellomynameisr)
    Should your tuition fees depend on the prestige of the uni you go to then? Since clearly, by going to a better uni, you will earn more so you should pay more?

    A degree is a degree mate. Shouldn't matter what it is in - same price for all
    Yes, I do think that the more prestigious the university the higher the fees. Clearly Oxbridge should be charging more than Anglia Ruskin...
    And I'm sorry but I have to disagree with the notion that 'a degree is a degree.' That's just not the case these days. I wish that it was, but in this day and age of economic hardship more importance is placed on the practical scientific and mathematical subjects than the philosophy-type degrees...
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    (Original post by Lh030396)
    Yes, I do think that the more prestigious the university the higher the fees. Clearly Oxbridge should be charging more than Anglia Ruskin...
    And I'm sorry but I have to disagree with the notion that 'a degree is a degree.' That's just not the case these days. I wish that it was, but in this day and age of economic hardship more importance is placed on the practical scientific and mathematical subjects than the philosophy-type degrees...
    Although I agree that not all degrees are equal, for example, a maths degree compared to a gender studies degree, the same price should still be charged for both.

    Individuals are personally deciding what they want to study so why should the fee be higher for someone wanting to study maths over gender studies?

    Also, if say, Oxbridge were to charge higher fees, they would lose a lot of potential applicants simply down to the fact that really bright students under financial strains will not apply. This is something they want to avoid by increasing the number of people from different backgrounds.
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    (Original post by hellomynameisr)
    Individuals are personally deciding what they want to study so why should the fee be higher for someone wanting to study maths over gender studies?
    It isn't that it should be higher for a maths degree, but it should be lower for someone doing gender studies (I have no clue what anyone who did gender studies earns, pls don't hate. Just using it cos it was used above) because they may not earn enough to make a degree in gender studies viable.Tuition fees should be based on the average persons ability to pay back their loans for any particular degree.

    Also remember that universities are trying to make money, if someone who takes a maths degree is better able to pay back a higher tuition fee then I wouldn't say it is morally corrupt to charge them more.

    In addition it would lead to the eventual phasing out of mickey mouse degrees, because if the average person who took degree MM never earned any money because they couldn't get a job then universities would have to charge less for such a degree and eventually they would drop the course.
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    (Original post by Luke7456)
    Yeah this is a really bad idea and here is why.

    You are penalizing people for making sensible economic decisions and subsidizing ones that are not economical. We want to improve our work force not devalue it with such a method.

    Students should have to pay more for a degree based on how much people who do that degree statistically make. If anything it should be the opposite we should want to encourage stem subjects because they are more valuable to the economy and will help improve our country.

    If you could produce relevant numbers like Stem subjects require X amount of lecture time per week then that might be more of a case. Students paying relative to what they actually get. Eg maybe courses/universities that provide insufficient contact time cannot charge as much as others.

    We should want to encourage disciplined useful degrees and discourage mickey mouse degrees. not the reverse.

    The problem with communism is it discourages hard work which is really bad for an economy.

    Your proposal is terrible.
    Hahaha, that's only because you don't want to pay £9,000 a year... which is less than what fees are at the moment anyway.

    Nah, university isn't just about creating some kind of STEM master race. People can study what the hell they want, but we have to accept that some degrees are worth more money than others...
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    (Original post by hellomynameisr)
    Although I agree that not all degrees are equal, for example, a maths degree compared to a gender studies degree, the same price should still be charged for both.

    Individuals are personally deciding what they want to study so why should the fee be higher for someone wanting to study maths over gender studies?

    Also, if say, Oxbridge were to charge higher fees, they would lose a lot of potential applicants simply down to the fact that really bright students under financial strains will not apply. This is something they want to avoid by increasing the number of people from different backgrounds.
    I'm not saying that Oxbridge's fees should go up... I'm saying they should stay at what they are atm, and ex-poly fees should drop...
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    (Original post by Dannyboy2015)
    It isn't that it should be higher for a maths degree, but it should be lower for someone doing gender studies (I have no clue what anyone who did gender studies earns, pls don't hate. Just using it cos it was used above) because they may not earn enough to make a degree in gender studies viable.Tuition fees should be based on the average persons ability to pay back their loans for any particular degree.

    Also remember that universities are trying to make money, if someone who takes a maths degree is better able to pay back a higher tuition fee then I wouldn't say it is morally corrupt to charge them more.

    In addition it would lead to the eventual phasing out of mickey mouse degrees, because if the average person who took degree MM never earned any money because they couldn't get a job then universities would have to charge less for such a degree and eventually they would drop the course.
    That is true to an extent, I guess. But then again, if you are not earning a over £20k (or something like that), after graduating then the government will cut off your student debt. Would it be fair to only do that for gender study grads as opposed to maths grads as there is still a probability that a maths grad could be unemployed after uni?
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    (Original post by hellomynameisr)
    That is true to an extent, I guess. But then again, if you are not earning a over £20k (or something like that), after graduating then the government will cut off your student debt. Would it be fair to only do that for gender study grads as opposed to maths grads as there is still a probability that a maths grad could be unemployed after uni?
    Well if the maths student didn't a get a job that put them over the threshold then they wouldn't have to pay either so ye. Although if they did both earn over the threshold (at the same salary) then the maths student would be paying for longer, which could be seen as unfair. This is why I suggested adjusting the fees dependent on what the average candidate ends up earning.
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    (Original post by hellomynameisr)
    That is true to an extent, I guess. But then again, if you are not earning a over £20k (or something like that), after graduating then the government will cut off your student debt. Would it be fair to only do that for gender study grads as opposed to maths grads as there is still a probability that a maths grad could be unemployed after uni?
    If a Maths grad is unemployed after finishing uni they have done something seriously wrong...
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    (Original post by Lh030396)
    I believe that students studying STEM subjects at university should pay higher tuition fees than non-STEM students because, on average, STEM students go on to work in highly paid jobs so are more likely to pay back student loans. Students who want to study non-STEM subjects like Media Studies, Art, Music, History, etc. should still be allowed to study those subjects, because education is vital, and people are entitled to study whatever they want. But these subjects, on average, tend to lead to lower-paid employment and often even minimum-wage work. So students end up with ridiculous debt that they can't afford to pay back over their working lives.Tuition fees for STEM students should be £9,000 a year. For non-STEM students: about £3,000 a year. STEM students get better teaching facilities and debt that they can pay back in full when they start work. Non-STEM students are left with much less debt which they might also be able to pay back in full when they go into lower-paid work. Both sides win... 😃
    Many STEM students choose a 4 year course and receive a MSci/MEng/MMath as a result. It's much rarer for arts&humanities students to do an undergrad masters.

    So the 4 year STEMmers *do* pay higher fees in total.

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    (Original post by jneill)
    Many STEM students choose a 4 year course and receive a MSci/MEng/MMath as a result. It's much rarer for arts&humanities students to do an undergrad masters.

    So the 4 year STEMmers *do* pay higher fees.

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    Well, it should be significantly more than the non-STEMmers really...
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    (Original post by Lh030396)
    Well, it should be significantly more than the non-STEMmers really...
    Check the fees charged to International students for an idea of the true costs.

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    No because it might discourage some students from choosing a STEM degree, which can damage the economy if our workforce isn't prepared for the industries of the future
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    (Original post by Lh030396)
    Hahaha, that's only because you don't want to pay £9,000 a year... which is less than what fees are at the moment anyway.

    Nah, university isn't just about creating some kind of STEM master race. People can study what the hell they want, but we have to accept that some degrees are worth more money than others...
    well I was talking about the principle of the matter not actual figures sure 9k would be better then 9250. its not about a master race this isn't genetics that is another discussion all together.

    its that i am passionately opposed to this communist ideology that seems to be coming up recently. Its simple logic you get less of what you tax and more of what you subsidize.

    Stem Degrees are more rigorous and demanding and more useful to the world at large. if we charge students more for this then less useful degrees we are actively discouraging people from studying rigorous degrees and encouraging them to study degrees that have little utility and are less valuable. My position isn't a moral one it is a simple practical economic one.

    Students who study maths at Cambridge already pay a lot more then students who study theology at chester.

    They will pay that with working many many more hours rather then going out clubbing and drinking. Your idea of charging them more so it becomes just as economically sensible to do a theology degree at chester as it does to do a maths degree at Cambridge would seriously devalue our graduates making them less competitive against foreign graduates and hurting our country overall.

    This isn't so much a political/moral stand as it is a logical/rational one.

    having said that I really really despise this anti elitist left wing culture.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    Check the fees charged to International students for an idea of the true costs.

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    Yeah, but the internationals get charged a huge amount whether they study STEM or not. I'm talking about British students.
 
 
 
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