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How has the left become associated with the elite and the right with the common man??

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    We are living in some messed up times that the left is now the mouthpiece of the 1%/elite/establishment/Global corporations and the right (conservatives/UKIP/Brexit/Trump) are now the voice of the common man.

    It's like some kind of alternate universe. How the hell did this happen?

    We need to repair the image of the left ASAP.
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    Well, the Left is being seen as a bunch of scruffy intellectuals from North London, who read Marx in coffee shops and know all of the words to the Internationale. This is, in some part, because of the increasing importance of Corbyn in the Labour movement, and the caricature he's brought with him.

    That being said, I think the biggest issue is immigration. The Left (namely Labour) is pro-immigration to its very core. The working class, on the other hand, is increasingly anti-immigration. So the party is at a crossroads. If it doesn't take a tougher stance on immigration, I can see it being in opposition for a long time. If it does take said stance, it will lose all of its current support. It's stuck between a rock and a hard place, and this makes me very sad.

    (Original post by 99_Problems)
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    Some white-van man hallucination of bankers from London being against them...
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    *adjusts flat cap and rolls up sleeves. pops cufflinks in pocket*

    ermm brothers together we can defeat the menace threatening our traditional communities. we must stand united against the millionaires opposite who send their kids to private school whilst denying ordinary folk the chance of a decent education. we in the Conservative Party will not allow these overprivileged parasites to ride roughshod over the rights of the man on the Clapham Omnibus !!
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    Because the left is ignoring the common mans concern and labelling it and them as something bad whereas the right actually acknowledges them.
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    (Original post by the bear)
    *adjusts flat cap and rolls up sleeves. pops cufflinks in pocket*

    ermm brothers together we can defeat the menace threatening our traditional communities. we must stand united against the millionaires opposite who send their kids to private school whilst denying ordinary folk the chance of a decent education. we in the Conservative Party will not allow these overprivileged parasites to ride roughshod over the rights of the man on the Clapham Omnibus !!
    You jest but the facts remain that our core base of the common person now sees more in common with the right/Brexit/UKIP than they do with the left and would rather vote conservative than vote for the left.

    Traditional leftwing parties like Labour need to decide where they side because right now they are awkwardly lumped together with global corporations/establishment and the well off. They can no longer afford to ignore issues that the average person cares about: immigration/Islam/housing/investment. This blaseness is what has allowed UKIP, Brexit and Trump to rise.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Because the left is ignoring the common mans concern and labelling it and them as something bad whereas the right actually acknowledges them.
    So low wages, insecure jobs, rising house prices, crumbling and underfunded public services, a deteriorating national health service and a social care crisis aren't peoples' concerns?

    Funny that, I seem to recall the left campaigning on all those issues.
    The difference is that while the right blames it all on immigration, the left actually looks at the real cause of such issues.
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    because the left got too comfortable in their bubble that they forgot what the common man actually believes - they took him completely for granted. they chained him along with promises of nice surprises (goodies like more welfare) but then never mentioned the bad surprises (mass migration, political correctness apparatuses, rad-fem, etc)
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    So low wages, insecure jobs, rising house prices, crumbling and underfunded public services, a deteriorating national health service and a social care crisis aren't peoples' concerns?

    Funny that, I seem to recall the left campaigning on all those issues.
    The difference is that while the right blames it all on immigration, the left actually looks at the real cause of such issues.
    Well, all those concerns of yours are directly caused by immigration.

    Low wages - foreigners are willing to work for less, pushing wages down.
    Insecure jobs - British nationals being replaced by foreigners as they are willing to work for less.
    Rising house prices - more demand for housing due to the influx of immigrants, so the prices go up.
    Underfunded public services - more government money is spent on welfare for the foreigners, leaving less for public services.
    Deteriorating national health service - hospitals and GP surgeries overcrowded due to immigrants (not that I care about the NHS, it should be abolished ASAP).

    And still the liberal left want to let foreigners in with no controls.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    So low wages, insecure jobs, rising house prices, crumbling and underfunded public services, a deteriorating national health service and a social care crisis aren't peoples' concerns?

    Funny that, I seem to recall the left campaigning on all those issues.
    The difference is that while the right blames it all on immigration, the left actually looks at the real cause of such issues.
    #ChaosKass has said what I would reply with about those points.

    You can't cause a problem fail to acknowledge it and fix it at the same time.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    #ChaosKass has said what I would reply with about those points.

    You can't cause a problem fail to acknowledge it and fix it at the same time.
    Except you blame foreigners and immigrants rather than an ideologically neoliberal government who believes in cutting public services...

    Austerity wasn't because of immigrants...
    Our governments failure to invest in housing isn't because of immigrants...
    Our governments lax policies towards businesses allowing them to treat workers like cr*p and pay them bugger all is not because of immigrants...



    This is exactly why you are a Trump supporter. You lack the ability to critically analyse issues and understand multi-layered issues. You find it far easier to simply go 'ah blame the immigrants even though there is next to no evidence that they cause all these things I say they cause'.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Except you blame foreigners and immigrants rather than an ideologically neoliberal government who believes in cutting public services...

    Austerity wasn't because of immigrants...
    Our governments failure to invest in housign isn't because of immigrants...
    Our governments lax policies towards businesses allowing them to treat workers like cr*p and pay them bugger all is not because of immigrants...

    Every problem I listed is down to a very libertarian, right wing economic approach. Of course you don't complain about that do you?
    Its a supply demand thing, you would rather bankrupt the country supplying things for people I would rather try to limit the demand by bringing in fewer people.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Its a supply demand thing, you would rather bankrupt the country supplying things for people I would rather try to limit the demand by bringing in fewer people.
    Wow.

    You do realise immigrants are a net gain on the economy? That they contribute more than they take out? That if we got rid of immigrants we would be less, not more wealthy.

    Our government has refused to build council homes for years and years, in fact in the 80s and 90s they sold most of them off, many are now in the hands of private landlords. Is that the fault of immigrants?

    Our government in the last few years has undertaken an ideologically driven austerity programme, starving public services and local authorities of money. Is that the fault of immigrants?

    Our government for years has cosied up to big corporations allowing them to treat workers like cr*p, place them on an insecure contract and pay them pittance because apparently that's good for business. Is that the fault of immigrants?


    This is why you are a Trump supporter. You lack the ability or the want to look for the REAL causes of these issues that you claim to care about. Not once have I seen you blame the poor state of our public services on a government that has cut funding to them.

    Instead, like every Trump supporter you prefer easy, simple answers rather than correct ones and you just blame immigrants.

    Once again, immigrants are a net gain on the economy, if we get rid of them we would be worse, not better off. You exmeplify why the far right is popular. Rather than seriously looking to seek the causes of societal issues, you ALWAYS go for the easy and convenient option of blaming immigrants.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Wow.

    You do realise immigrants are a net gain on the economy? That they contribute more than they take out? That if we got rid of immigrants we would be less, not more wealthy.

    Our government has refused to build council homes for years and years, in fact in the 80s and 90s they sold most of them off, many are now in the hands of private landlords. Is that the fault of immigrants?

    Our government in the last few years has undertaken an ideologically driven austerity programme, starving public services and local authorities of money. Is that the fault of immigrants?

    Our government for years has cosied up to big corporations allowing them to treat workers like cr*p, place them on an insecure contract and pay them pittance because apparently that's good for business. Is that the fault of immigrants?


    This is why you are a Trump supporter. You lack the ability or the want to look for the REAL causes of these issues that you claim to care about. Not once have I seen you blame the poor state of our public services on a government that has cut funding to them.

    Instead, like every Trump supporter you prefer easy, simple answers rather than correct ones and you just blame immigrants.

    Once again, immigrants are a net gain on the economy, if we get rid of them we would be worse, not better off. You exmeplify why the far right is popular. Rather than seriously looking to seek the causes of societal issues, you ALWAYS go for the easy and convenient option of blaming immigrants.
    Immigrants as a whole are yes but not every single immigrant is, I would stop the ones who wouldn't be from coming in, you prefer the utopian approach oh everything can be solved we will let the government do it while we accommodate everyone in the world here, you are a dreamer I am a realist that is the difference between you and me.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Immigrants as a whole are yes but not every single immigrant is, I would stop the ones who wouldn't be from coming in, you prefer the utopian approach oh everything can be solved we will let the government do it while we accommodate everyone in the world here, you are a dreamer I am a realist that is the difference between you and me.

    No you are not a realist. You are someone who likes to blame hugely complex and multi layered issues simply on immigrants because you lack the capabilities to critically analyse the real causes.

    Just answer me this, why has our government not invested in housing? Did you agree with austerity measures which hit our public services badly? Should we give more money to the NHS?


    You don't actually care about public services or ordinary peoples wages. You just use them as an excuse to attack immigrants. If you just came out and said you hate immigrants, i'd have more respect for you rather than pretending that your dislike of them is because they cause a housing crisis, low wages and starved public services - even when there is no evidence to prove it.
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    It's just the tabloid right wing media that has pushed that.

    It will be interesting to see, now the right are in the ascendancy, what it can deliver for "the common man".

    They have been told that they are going to get:
    higher wages
    greater availability of housing
    greater availability of schools
    improvements for the NHS

    Over to you Theresa May, I hope you can deliver this else the working class anger that came out against the metropolitan elite in the referendum, is going to be targeted against the Conservatives.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    No you are not a realist. You are someone who likes to blame hugely complex and multi layered issues simply on immigrants because you lack the capabilities to critically analyse the real causes.

    Just answer me this, why has our government not invested in housing? Did you agree with austerity measures which hit our public services badly? Should we give more money to the NHS?


    You don't actually care about public services or ordinary peoples wages. You just use them as an excuse to attack immigrants. If you just came out and said you ahte immigrants, i'd have more respect for you rather than pretending that your dislike of them is because they cause a housing crisis, low wages and starved public services - even when there is no evidence to prove it.
    I don't hate anyone heck I don't even dislike immigrants I just think we need a limit the idea that we can have high immigration and solve the problems you mention isn't reality, you have said that it is a multi layered issue do you accept that high immigration is a factor?

    Don't know I'm not a government advisor go ask your MP.
    To some extent yes I agree with it but that alone I don't think is enough public services need to be run better, I do not see why police need a lot of 16 plate expense bmw's for example.
    Just throwing money at the problem doesn't solve it so no, but if we can make it more efficient and cut out things that aren't necessary then I would say yes.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    I don't hate anyone heck I don't even dislike immigrants I just think we need a limit the idea that we can have high immigration and solve the problems you mention isn't reality, you have said that it is a multi layered issue do you accept that high immigration is a factor?

    Don't know I'm not a government advisor go ask your MP.
    To some extent yes I agree with it but that alone I don't think is enough public services need to be run better, I do not see why police need a lot of 16 plate expense bmw's for example.
    Just throwing money at the problem doesn't solve it so no, but if we can make it more efficient and cut out things that aren't necessary then I would say yes.
    Should our government invest more in housing?
    Should our government invest more in the NHS?
    Should our government clamp down on tax avoidance?
    Should our government invest more into public services in general?

    If your answer to any of those questions is no, then please don't pretend that you dislike immigrants because of their effects on public services and housing.


    You do realise there is very little evidence that immigrants take British peoples jobs or drive down wages?
    Please find me the evidence that they do.

    Once again you take the easy way out and blame immigration for all our problems rather than looking to the real causes.

    Please tell me why you do not blame right wing economics, of ideologically cutting down the size of the state and public projects for our problems?
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Should our government invest more in housing?
    Should our government invest more in the NHS?
    Should our government clamp down on tax avoidance?
    Should our government invest more into public services in general?

    If your answer to any of those questions is no, then please don't pretend that you dislike immigrants because of their effects on public services and housing.


    You do realise there is very little evidence that immigrants take British peoples jobs or drive down wages?
    Please find me the evidence that they do.

    Once again you take the easy way out and blame immigration for all our problems rather than looking to the real causes.

    Please tell me why you do not blame right wing economics, of ideologically cutting down the size of the state and public projects for our problems?
    Probably
    yes but money alone won't fix the problems
    Yes I have said that before
    Yes but once again money alone won't fix the problems.

    There has to be a balance something you don't seem to agree with you just want the government to spend spend spend which when the next recession comes (there will be another one no matter what route we take) we would be in a worse position.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Probably
    yes but money alone won't fix the problems
    Yes I have said that before
    Yes but once again money alone won't fix the problems.

    There has to be a balance something you don't seem to agree with you just want the government to spend spend spend which when the next recession comes (there will be another one no matter what route we take) we would be in a worse position.
    I don't want unlimited spending. I want sensible and targeted spending on fiscal multipliers that will make us money and set us up well if we encounter recession.

    For every £1 we spend on housing, our economy gains £2.50 in the long term. With interest rates being so low, we should be borrowing sensibly and investing in public infrastructure projects that will provide a long term boost to the economy.

    Also this is key, we have an ageing population which places more strain on our public services. We need more working age immigrants who pay taxes and take little from public services to help address this problem.

    My problem with you is that you claim to care about public services and the NHS and housing and wages yet you NEVER blame out government's right wing economic approach for exasperating such issues. Instead you blame immigrants who have very little effect on the aforementioned issues.


    You said the left don't talk about issues the working man face but the left talks so much amour housing, wages, cost of living, NHS, public services etc. Unlike the right though they do not lazily and incorrectly blame immigration for these issues.

    The political right only ever seems to care about public services when it comes to immigration. Yet when oh the government massively cites funding to public services they say nothing.
 
 
 
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