Turn on thread page Beta
    • Wiki Support Team
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    Wiki Support Team
    (Original post by wtid)
    She didn't think doing a language degree entails only learning a language, but how does one expect to be able to analyse a text or whatever you do on an MML at Cambridge if you can't even write/speak/understand the language properly? And if this MML is so hard, what preparation is A-Level to be able to do it if the difficulty is such a massive step?
    A-levels aren't meant to be preparation for Cambridge MML. If A-levels were aimed at Cambridge students, imagine how many people would drop out after GCSEs. That's not a flaw of the education system, it's just inevitable. Besides, no one's meant to be able to analyse a text or whatever before they go to university; university is there to teach you to do that. It's a sharp learning curve at Cambridge, but so what?

    (Original post by wtid)
    How would she write the analysis of the book in German without knowing cases? :confused:
    Badly. But you need to remember that she's an English person doing German as a foreign language, and your girlfriend is a German person doing German as a first language. Writing an analysis of Faust isn't the sort of thing you'd do until after your first year at university - in fact, a couple of my friends said it was very difficult when they were studying it earlier this year. We're hardly talking about something basic that every A-level German student should know.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by generalebriety)
    A-levels aren't meant to be preparation for Cambridge MML. If A-levels were aimed at Cambridge students, imagine how many people would drop out after GCSEs. That's not a flaw of the education system, it's just inevitable. Besides, no one's meant to be able to analyse a text or whatever before they go to university; university is there to teach you to do that. It's a sharp learning curve at Cambridge, but so what?
    Fair enough, I guess A-Level Maths doesn't prepare you for Cambridge Maths course either. To be honest though, for German students uni isn't to teach you to analyse a text, year 10 is...

    Badly. But you need to remember that she's an English person doing German as a foreign language, and your girlfriend is a German person doing German as a first language. Writing an analysis of Faust isn't the sort of thing you'd do until after your first year at university - in fact, a couple of my friends said it was very difficult when they were studying it earlier this year. We're hardly talking about something basic that every A-level German student should know.
    I wasn't comparing an English student analysing Faust to a German analysing Faust, I was comparing an English student analysing Faust to a German student analysing Hamlet or something similar. My girlfriend wrote a 10 page analysis of Romeo and Juliet for her Abitur, could an English student write a 10 page analysis of a comparable book?
    • Wiki Support Team
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    Wiki Support Team
    (Original post by wtid)
    I wasn't comparing an English student analysing Faust to a German analysing Faust, I was comparing an English student analysing Faust to a German student analysing Hamlet or something similar. My girlfriend wrote a 10 page analysis of Romeo and Juliet for her Abitur, could an English student write a 10 page analysis of a comparable book?
    Ah, now that's not what you said earlier. :p: No, almost certainly not. But then English people typically learn German for 5-7 years and Germans typically learn English for 11 years.
    • Wiki Support Team
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    Wiki Support Team
    (Original post by wtid)
    To be honest though, for German students uni isn't to teach you to analyse a text, year 10 is...
    Erm, I'd be surprised if your girlfriend's essay was any better than any of my English GCSE essays. Abitur might teach you to read a text and write some crap about it, but it doesn't teach you to genuinely analyse a text.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by generalebriety)
    Erm, I'd be surprised if your girlfriend's essay was any better than any of my English GCSE essays. Abitur might teach you to read a text and write some crap about it, but it doesn't teach you to genuinely analyse a text.
    I guess we'll never know. Depends what you mean by "genuinely" analyse, I mean the analysis they have to do in English is to the same standard they have to do it in German, so either both are GCSE standard or the English is higher than GCSE (let's not forget you're a genius more or less so your GCSE English papers would be in the top 90th percentile no doubt :p:)

    She's not trying to sound arrogant and fine, Germans learn the language for longer, but it doesn't take away from the fact she's read both Abitur and A-Level papers and feels the A-Levels are very much easier. Also, for French she's only done it for the same time as an English student and she could do an A-Level French paper with ease, but then so may many English students too, I don't know.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    Well, talking about being behind...:cool:, Check my school out:
    The standard of teaching in my school is suppose to be ""very good/excellent" but the language department is worrying me so much that I have been trying to do extra work on my German (learning some at lunchtimes) due to the fear of getting bad grades!
    My German teacher only taught us the basic things like subordinate, relative clauses(only the nominatve ones, haven't even touched the other ones), a few tenses, some vocab, a bit on cases (literally only the nominative and accusative and tells us to not bother much about the dative becaue it's apparantly "too complicated for us at the moment" even though we are in year 11. T__T). and etc.
    We only know the perfect, present, future and a little bit on the imperfect and we haven't even been taught subjunctives, imperative, passive, adjectival endings, determiners(accusative, dative, genitive ones) and not even pluperfect! And some of those stuff are in the exams ! :eek:
    So in my opinion, none of you guys are really behind at all! :p:

    Anyways, please gnore my boring rant if you want to lol! And moving on ...
    About the German grading system, I read somewhere that even if you get above 90%, you are roughly still on a 3! That's really scary, I mean, their exams are suppose to be harder and a 90% here in the UK is like A/A*. :eek:

    EDIT:
    About foreign languages, I think the reason why others seem to have a better grasp of English than native english who are learning other languages is pressure. Englsh is such a wide-spoken language that being good at it is emphasise a lot at schools in other countries, whereas people in the UK are not really under that sort of pressure to learn them.
    Whne I was still schooling in China, I have seen other kids going to English classes and students in the years above mine were learning English literally everyday and they are always under soo much pressure from the teachers, and I am talking about people in year 3 to 4!
    Comparing the pressure here in the UK, I feel like no one is particularly under any pressure to master any foreign languages and so the pace is quite slow.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Nimbus)
    Anyways, please gnore my boring rant if you want to lol! And moving on ...
    About the German grading system, I read somewhere that even if you get above 90%, you are roughly still on a 3! That's really scary, I mean, their exams are suppose to be harder and a 90% here in the UK is like A/A*. :eek:
    A 3? Only the lower years (up to year 11) use 1-6, after that it's 15-0. 90% is equal to 14 (or 1...it goes 1+/1/1- etc.)
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by wtid)
    A 3? Only the lower years (up to year 11) use 1-6, after that it's 15-0. 90% is equal to 14 (or 1...it goes 1+/1/1- etc.)
    Oh I see and about the 90% thing, I think I read it on wikipedia actually. *searches wiki*
    Here is the link:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPA_in_Germany
    (Original post by Wikipedia)
    In Germany, students scoring more than 90% usually are in the 3 range.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Nimbus)
    Oh I see and about the 90% thing, I think I read it on wikipedia actually. *searches wiki*
    Here is the link:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPA_in_Germany
    I think that just means that a student getting 90% in a US exam would be in the 3 range in Germany, rather than 90% = 3 because that's definitely not true
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by wtid)
    I think that just means that a student getting 90% in a US exam would be in the 3 range in Germany, rather than 90% = 3 because that's definitely not true
    Oh okay. It's just the fact that a US student scoring 90% getssc an "A" whie a German student scoring more than 90% in an exam only gets a 3 kid of scares me. o__O.
    Ignore me lol, I am always scared of grade boundaries (probably because I use to be horrified by my old school's grade boundaries in China (C-80%+, B-90%+, A -95%).^^;;.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Nimbus)
    Oh okay. It's just the fact that a US student scoring 90% getssc an "A" whie a German student scoring more than 90% in an exam only gets a 3 kid of scares me. o__O.
    Ignore me lol, I am always scared of grade boundaries (probably because I use to be horrified by my old school's grade boundaries in China (C-80%+, B-90%+, A -95%).^^;;.
    I think you're still misunderstanding, I'm not sure. To me it doesn't sound like a 3 = 90%, it's that a a student capable of scoring 90% on a US exam would only get 60% on a German exam (i.e a 3). Maybe you already understood that, but just to make sure

    Anyway off to bed now, quarter to 11 here.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by wtid)
    I think you're still misunderstanding, I'm not sure. To me it doesn't sound like a 3 = 90%, it's that a a student capable of scoring 90% on a US exam would only get 60% on a German exam (i.e a 3). Maybe you already understood that, but just to make sure

    Anyway off to bed now, quarter to 11 here.
    Oops, that was really bad phrasing, sorry I meant that (but I somehow wrote "the US student" as "a German student" in germany..oops), I was trying to put it into the context of a german student. =D
    Well, good ngiht to you though!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Just to add - that was and AS paper not an A Level one and the Listening part is generally the easiest of all the different parts. Also, Romeo and Juliet is not really comparable to Faust; R&J is often studied at Year 9 level - did she do Faust when she was 13?

    You are right that in comparison German standards of English at Abitur are higher than English standards of German at A Level but it's also not that fair a comparison. Don't forget - they learn it a lot longer, are surrounded by a lot more English everyday, have a lot more pressure to do well in their Abitur and take it a year later than we do A Levels.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Trirarien)
    Just to add - that was and AS paper not an A Level one and the Listening part is generally the easiest of all the different parts. Also, Romeo and Juliet is not really comparable to Faust; R&J is often studied at Year 9 level - did she do Faust when she was 13?
    I'm not sure she's studied Faust, I only know that she's read it in her free time. Anyway we did R&J in year 10, that's 15 and I'm sure when it's studied at that level it's not the same level as Abitur, but again I'm just guessing.

    You are right that in comparison German standards of English at Abitur are higher than English standards of German at A Level but it's also not that fair a comparison. Don't forget - they learn it a lot longer, are surrounded by a lot more English everyday, have a lot more pressure to do well in their Abitur and take it a year later than we do A Levels.
    They're all fair points, but so what? Who's fault is it that we don't do a foreign language at an earlier age? Who's fault is it that we're not under as much pressure to learn a language as they are to learn English? I'd say the education system. At the end of the day, I don't think it matters if they do it longer or take abitur a year later, because both A-Levels and Abitur are the last exams before uni and are meant to prepare students, so German students are, in theory, better prepared. I'm only talking about languages here by the way, she thinks the science papers she's looked at are on a similar level.

    Of course there's something else to take into consideration which occurred to me last night; she is far and away the best English speaker in her school, probably because she loves the language and we've been together for over a year and a half in which time she's spoken to me every day in English so in that way it's not a fair comparison. Most of her classmates would have more difficulty having a conversation properly I guess, the same as in England there will be some people who aren't so good and others who excel.

    At the end of the day though, it isn't worth discussing, because I assume we can agree the English education system (solely for languages) needs to be improved and that's really the point here.
    • PS Helper
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    PS Helper
    Faust wird normalerweise wenn überhaupt als Oberstufentext gelesen, weil es als eher schwer verdaulich gilt wegen des ganzen philosophischen Krams - aus ähnlichen Gründen werden die meisten britischen Schüler wahrscheinlich mit 13 noch nicht mit Hamlet traktiert. Wir hatten Faust damals in der 12. Klasse. In der 9. liest man eher Schiller (Die Räuber, Maria Stuart, Willhelm Tell, Kabale und Liebe etc.) oder wenn schon Goethe, dann den gräßlichen Götz von Berlichingen.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    *is having her German oral soon so tries to write in German...*

    Ich weiss nicht, was man in der Oberstufe lernt, aber muss man hier Deutsche Literatur wie Goethe in A-levels studieren? Wenn ja, muss man in der A-levels einige Literatur analysieren auch, inwiefern? Und studiert die Schüler dort Deutschen Literatur auf der gleichen Stufe wie Schüler, sie in Abitur studieren in Deutschland?

    Persöonlich denke ich, dass wir nicht anderen Leute aber uns selbst beschuldigen für unse schlechter Fremdsprachekenntnisse als anderen Leute, die aus Ausland kommen sollten.
    Wir sind daran schuld, weil es unse Verantwortlichkeit ist, dass wir unse Fremdsprachekenntnisse verbessen.
    • Wiki Support Team
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    Wiki Support Team
    (Original post by Nimbus)
    Ich weiss nicht, was man in der Oberstufe lernt, aber muss man hier Deutsche Literatur wie Goethe in A-levels studieren? Wenn ja, muss man in der A-levels einige Literatur analysieren auch, inwiefern? Und studiert die Schüler dort Deutschen Literatur auf der gleichen Stufe wie Schüler, sie in Abitur studieren in Deutschland?
    Das kann man machen, muss man aber nicht - ich glaube, es kommt hauptsaechlich auf die individuelle Schule an. Goethe wuerde man aber auf keinen Fall studieren - man muss einfach nur zeigen, dass man das Buch gelesen und verstanden hat, und dass man etwas interessantes darueber schreiben kann.

    (Original post by Nimbus)
    Persöonlich denke ich, dass wir nicht anderen Leute aber uns selbst beschuldigen für unse schlechter Fremdsprachekenntnisse als anderen Leute, die aus Ausland kommen sollten.
    Wir sind daran schuld, weil es unse Verantwortlichkeit ist, dass wir unse Fremdsprachekenntnisse verbessen.
    Stimmt. Eine Fremdsprache ist nicht nur ein Schulfach.

    A small correction: 'unsere'. This seems counterintuitive, because you'd probably imagine the 'er' on 'unser' to be a masculine ending on 'uns', right? And then you just replace it with 'e'. Not so; 'unser' is a word with no endings on which means 'our', just like 'mein' doesn't have any endings and means 'my' (and doesn't take any endings when it refers to a masculine object, e.g. mein Bruder rather than *meiner Bruder). In fact, 'mein', 'dein', 'sein', 'ihr', 'euer', 'unser' and 'Ihr' all take exactly the same endings in exactly the same way*, so in the feminine it's 'meine', 'deine', 'unsere', 'ihre', etc.

    *One small exception: 'euer' drops its second 'e' whenever it takes an ending, so 'eure', 'eurem', 'euren'...
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by generalebriety)
    Das kann man machen, muss man aber nicht - ich glaube, es kommt hauptsaechlich auf die individuelle Schule an. Goethe wuerde man aber auf keinen Fall studieren - man muss einfach nur zeigen, dass man das Buch gelesen und verstanden hat, und dass man etwas interessantes darueber schreiben kann.

    Stimmt. Eine Fremdsprache ist nicht nur ein Schulfach.

    A small correction: 'unsere'. This seems counterintuitive, because you'd probably imagine the 'er' on 'unser' to be a masculine ending on 'uns', right? And then you just replace it with 'e'. Not so; 'unser' is a word with no endings on which means 'our', just like 'mein' doesn't have any endings and means 'my' (and doesn't take any endings when it refers to a masculine object, e.g. mein Bruder rather than *meiner Bruder). In fact, 'mein', 'dein', 'sein', 'ihr', 'euer', 'unser' and 'Ihr' all take exactly the same endings in exactly the same way*, so in the feminine it's 'meine', 'deine', 'unsere', 'ihre', etc.

    *One small exception: 'euer' drops its second 'e' whenever it takes an ending, so 'eure', 'eurem', 'euren'...
    Pheew!! Gott sei Dank, dass man nicht analytisches Essays schreiben muss! *tanzt*.

    Oh yeah! I thought my sentences looked funny! Thank you so much for the explanation! I still have problems with these endings.
    Okay, time for me to look at endings properly! =D *grabs book and reads*
    • Wiki Support Team
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    Wiki Support Team
    (Original post by Nimbus)
    Pheew!! Gott sei Dank, dass man nicht analytisches Essays schreiben muss! *tanzt*.
    Doch... but it's nowhere near as hard as what you might think of as analysis. The difficulty is the linguistic barrier, not the depth to which you need to study the literature.
    • Wiki Support Team
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    Wiki Support Team
    (Original post by Nimbus)
    Oh yeah! I thought my sentences looked funny! Thank you so much for the explanation! I still have problems with these endings.
    Okay, time for me to look at endings properly! =D *grabs book and reads*
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki...s_%28German%29
 
 
 
Turn on thread page Beta
Updated: December 18, 2013

University open days

  • University of Roehampton
    All departments Undergraduate
    Sat, 17 Nov '18
  • Edge Hill University
    Faculty of Health and Social Care Undergraduate
    Sat, 17 Nov '18
  • Bournemouth University
    Undergraduate Open Day Undergraduate
    Sat, 17 Nov '18
Poll
Black Friday: Yay or Nay?

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.