Can you become a GP after doing postgrad Physician Associate?

Watch
This discussion is closed.
studentshavefun
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#1
What career do you receive?
0
j_vicente
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#2
Report 3 years ago
#2
Yes and no. You will never have the tittle of General Practitioner because that is a tittle given to doctors who went to become GPs and PAs are not doctors. However, you can work in a GP setting doing exactly the same work a GP does, with the exception of prescribing (for now). Im a first year PA student and I have GP placements every few weeks. At this point, I already see patients by myself and do basic examinations to then report back to my GP and discuss the diagnosis and treatment plan. My practice is very excited with the presence of PA students and that are even advertising now a permanent position for a PA, so this person will be doing the job of a GP.
Since PAs cant specialize, you probably wont receive a title such as GP PA or anything of the sort, but in practice you would be doing the same things on a daily basis.
GP practices are one the the people most keen to see the PA profession taking on (from my experience) as they see the oportunity to have more qualified health care professional working as GPs
1
nexttime
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#3
Report 3 years ago
#3
No.
0
Democracy
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#4
Report 3 years ago
#4
(Original post by j_vicente)
Yes and no. You will never have the tittle of General Practitioner because that is a tittle given to doctors who went to become GPs and PAs are not doctors. However, you can work in a GP setting doing exactly the same work a GP does, with the exception of prescribing (for now). Im a first year PA student and I have GP placements every few weeks. At this point, I already see patients by myself and do basic examinations to then report back to my GP and discuss the diagnosis and treatment plan. My practice is very excited with the presence of PA students and that are even advertising now a permanent position for a PA, so this person will be doing the job of a GP.
Since PAs cant specialize, you probably wont receive a title such as GP PA or anything of the sort, but in practice you would be doing the same things on a daily basis.
GP practices are one the the people most keen to see the PA profession taking on (from my experience) as they see the oportunity to have more qualified health care professional working as GPs
So you don't prescribe, you don't have ultimate responsibility for the patient, and you always have someone else to pass the buck onto if things start getting a bit hairy? But apart from that, you're doing exactly the same job as a GP right?

If you're so clever after a two year course that you can "do the same things on a daily basis" as a GP, then why not have a go at the MRCGP the day you graduate from your PA degree and see how you get on?
5
Reality Check
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#5
Report 3 years ago
#5
Well you could, but that would require applying to and securing a place at medical school, doing 4/5 years then 2 years foundation training before going on to GP speciality training. There's no shortcut because of your PA training: PA and GP are very much not interchangeable.
1
j_vicente
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#6
Report 3 years ago
#6
(Original post by Democracy)
So you don't prescribe, you don't have ultimate responsibility for the patient, and you always have someone else to pass the buck onto if things start getting a bit hairy? But apart from that, you're doing exactly the same job as a GP right?

If you're so clever after a two year course that you can "do the same things on a daily basis" as a GP, then why not have a go at the MRCGP the day you graduate from your PA degree and see how you get on?
Yes, you are right, we don't prescribe yet. that will come in time when we are a regulated profession, and measures have been taken to provide PAs with the right to prescribe, but we absolutely have responsibilities towards our patients. we are liable and can be prosecuted, the reason why we need insurance in order to be able to study and work. As to "passing the buck" I have never came across a PA who wasn;t able to deal with the situation they were involved in simply because we learn to work whiting the spectrum of our practice. or course some times patients come along and you dont feel like you have enough experience to handle their case and you ask for help (which is what I think you were trying to say). That's called professional responsibility and it happens across the NHS. Or do you think Junior Doctors never ask their registrars and consultants for help? Every medical professional has a senior they can refer back to, this is how we keep patients safe
Thank you for the compliment, we are very clever people indeed! All PAs students have a previous BSc in a science relevant area and some times masters degrees before starting the 2 years of intense medicine. However, not all PAs want to act as GPs. I for example would not like that line of work. We also don't specialise, which means that even if you work in a GP practice for years, you are still as qualified to work in any area of a hospital the next day. It is a flexible profession.
Hope that cleared some doubts.
Have a nice day
1
Democracy
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#7
Report 3 years ago
#7
(Original post by j_vicente)
Yes, you are right, we don't prescribe yet. that will come in time when we are a regulated profession, and measures have been taken to provide PAs with the right to prescribe, but we absolutely have responsibilities towards our patients. we are liable and can be prosecuted, the reason why we need insurance in order to be able to study and work. As to "passing the buck" I have never came across a PA who wasn;t able to deal with the situation they were involved in simply because we learn to work whiting the spectrum of our practice. or course some times patients come along and you dont feel like you have enough experience to handle their case and you ask for help (which is what I think you were trying to say). That's called professional responsibility and it happens across the NHS. Or do you think Junior Doctors never ask their registrars and consultants for help? Every medical professional has a senior they can refer back to, this is how we keep patients safe
Thank you for the compliment, we are very clever people indeed! All PAs students have a previous BSc in a science relevant area and some times masters degrees before starting the 2 years of intense medicine. However, not all PAs want to act as GPs. I for example would not like that line of work. We also don't specialise, which means that even if you work in a GP practice for years, you are still as qualified to work in any area of a hospital the next day. It is a flexible profession.
Hope that cleared some doubts.
Have a nice day
Haha, using the royal we after 2 months of PA studies eh?

Junior doctors absolutely ask for help. But the majority have the humility and perspective to realise what their role is and the limits of their knowledge and practice.

Coming out of your PA course does not make you "basically" a GP neither does the position being advertised at your practice mean that that PA will be "doing exactly the same work as a GP". The government and the CCG running your GP practice might want you to believe that, but that's because they're trying to pull off the impossible and run 90% of the NHS via the 9% of the budget that goes to general practice, and it's mathematically impossible to do that with fully qualified actual GPs. So like all good PR men, the government have had to be very creative about the whole thing.

None of this makes you some kind of turbocharged medical genius though, so stop acting as if you're the clever one who worked out the quick way of doing "exactly the same work" as someone who completed eight more years of training and learning.
2
nexttime
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#8
Report 3 years ago
#8
(Original post by j_vicente)
Yes, you are right, we don't prescribe yet. that will come in time when we are a regulated profession, and measures have been taken to provide PAs with the right to prescribe, but we absolutely have responsibilities towards our patients. we are liable and can be prosecuted, the reason why we need insurance in order to be able to study and work. As to "passing the buck" I have never came across a PA who wasn;t able to deal with the situation they were involved in simply because we learn to work whiting the spectrum of our practice. or course some times patients come along and you dont feel like you have enough experience to handle their case and you ask for help (which is what I think you were trying to say). That's called professional responsibility and it happens across the NHS. Or do you think Junior Doctors never ask their registrars and consultants for help? Every medical professional has a senior they can refer back to, this is how we keep patients safe
Thank you for the compliment, we are very clever people indeed! All PAs students have a previous BSc in a science relevant area and some times masters degrees before starting the 2 years of intense medicine. However, not all PAs want to act as GPs. I for example would not like that line of work. We also don't specialise, which means that even if you work in a GP practice for years, you are still as qualified to work in any area of a hospital the next day. It is a flexible profession.
Hope that cleared some doubts.
Have a nice day
I actually think that PAs are going to be useful to the NHS and could save money.

But you seem to be suffering from the same delusion that most PA students seem to be suffering from. I can tell you categorically you will not "be doing the job of a GP". If you don't believe me then just wait and see. You will be assisting a GP (hence the alternative name for your position: Physicians Assistant). You might even get your own clinic, seeing the really basic stuff. But not the GP stuff. The GP having been through 5x longer training and all.
0
Bunicornaces
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#9
Report 3 years ago
#9
(Original post by j_vicente)
.
Teehee :giggle:
Boy are you going to be disappointed when you graduate from your 2-year diploma.
2
Reality Check
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#10
Report 3 years ago
#10
(Original post by j_vicente)
Yes, you are right, we don't prescribe yet. that will come in time when we are a regulated profession, and measures have been taken to provide PAs with the right to prescribe, but we absolutely have responsibilities towards our patients. we are liable and can be prosecuted, the reason why we need insurance in order to be able to study and work. As to "passing the buck" I have never came across a PA who wasn;t able to deal with the situation they were involved in simply because we learn to work whiting the spectrum of our practice. or course some times patients come along and you dont feel like you have enough experience to handle their case and you ask for help (which is what I think you were trying to say). That's called professional responsibility and it happens across the NHS. Or do you think Junior Doctors never ask their registrars and consultants for help? Every medical professional has a senior they can refer back to, this is how we keep patients safe
Thank you for the compliment, we are very clever people indeed! All PAs students have a previous BSc in a science relevant area and some times masters degrees before starting the 2 years of intense medicine. However, not all PAs want to act as GPs. I for example would not like that line of work. We also don't specialise, which means that even if you work in a GP practice for years, you are still as qualified to work in any area of a hospital the next day. It is a flexible profession.
Hope that cleared some doubts.
Have a nice day
You seem to implicitly equate the status and learning of GPs and PAs:

A GP undergoes 10 years training initial training, by securing a place at medical school by obtaining the very best grades throughout their school career and doing excellently at the UKCAT/BMAT, then competitively applying for foundation training and speciality.

A Physician's assistant does two years of training following a 'science' degree...
0
Trematoda
Badges: 4
Rep:
?
#11
Report 3 years ago
#11
Any of you actually seen what PA's are currently doing in GP practice's? Because if you were to shadow one, you'll see that GP's and PA's do very similar things, where an experienced American PA does up to 90% percent of what a GP does (expect prescribing and other task that require a PA statutory register before being allowed), so I don't see why j_vicente has to be attacked by explaining the similarity of roles. The difference is obviously that if a PA is presented with a case that goes beyond his training and knowledge will pass it to a GP, exactly like what nurses do when they visit a patient and their knowledge and training doesn't suffice. So why mock PA's?

Obviously, if you go and look what a PA does in another specialty, they will probably do only 15 to 20 % of what a fully qualified doctor does in that certain area, but that simply because the PA model doesn't specialise, and area like cardiology or neurosurgery would require years of specialisation and training in that certain area.

Said that, I don't understand why many of you seem so bitter about PA's, the majority of doctors and NHS staff that have been working with them highly appreciate what they do and understand how valuable the figure of a PA is to them. Same hostility was faced when nurses started prescribing and when HCA's were introduced.
2
Reality Check
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#12
Report 3 years ago
#12
(Original post by Trematoda)
Any of you actually seen what PA's are currently doing in GP practice's? Because if you were to shadow one, you'll see that GP's and PA's do very similar things, where an experienced American PA does up to 90% percent of what a GP does (expect prescribing and other task that require a PA statutory register before being allowed), so I don't see why j_vicente has to be attacked by explaining the similarity of roles. The difference is obviously that if a PA is presented with a case that goes beyond his training and knowledge will pass it to a GP, exactly like what nurses do when they visit a patient and their knowledge and training doesn't suffice. So why mock PA's?

Obviously, if you go and look what a PA does in another specialty, they will probably do only 15 to 20 % of what a fully qualified doctor does in that certain area, but that simply because the PA model doesn't specialise, and area like cardiology or neurosurgery would require years of specialisation and training in that certain area.

Said that, I don't understand why many of you seem so bitter about PA's, the majority of doctors and NHS staff that have been working with them highly appreciate what they do and understand how valuable the figure of a PA is to them. Same hostility was faced when nurses started prescribing and when HCA's were introduced.
GP practice's what or whom??

I think the point is that we do see some fairly bumptious posts from PAs who are keen to equate as far as possible their learning to that of a GP. This does tend, understandably, to rile those who've worked exceptionally hard for a very long time to become a GP.

I think PAs will be a vaulable addition to already stretched GP surgeries. But it is important not to in any way blur the distinction between the two.
1
Trematoda
Badges: 4
Rep:
?
#13
Report 3 years ago
#13
(Original post by Reality Check)
GP practice's what or whom??

I think the point is that we do see some fairly bumptious posts from PAs who are keen to equate as far as possible their learning to that of a GP. This does tend, understandably, to rile those who've worked exceptionally hard for a very long time to become a GP.

I think PAs will be a vaulable addition to already stretched GP surgeries. But it is important not to in any way blur the distinction between the two.
That goes without any doubt, PA can't exist without GP's and doctors, otherwise it would be no different from asking nurses or HCA to run surgeries and hospitals on their own, it's just not possible, same way PA's will always require a GP to supervise them. And of course, a recently qualified PA wouldn't be doing the same exact thing that a PA with years of experience behind them will be allowed to do in general practice or in a hospital.

I think the greatest problem with this thread reside in the question posted, as it's not clear if the poster want to become a PA in order to act as a GP (so it's mainly someone who couldn't get into medicine and decided to go for PA) or is just someone who is genuinely interested in knowing how similar are the roles of a GP and a PA in general practice.
0
Reality Check
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#14
Report 3 years ago
#14
(Original post by Trematoda)

I think the greatest problem with this thread reside in the question posted, as it's not clear if the poster want to become a PA in order to act as a GP (so it's mainly someone who couldn't get into medicine and decided to go for PA) or is just someone who is genuinely interested in knowing how similar are the roles of a GP and a PA in general practice.
I think you've hit the nail on the head, here.
0
kathryncannings
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#15
Report 2 years ago
#15
I dont see the problem with this question, the NHS is evolving and needs to evolve and the structure of the medical profession might need to change. Is it not fair to wonder if in the future that a new route to becoming a doctor or GP could be to study to become a PA, work for a number of years and gain experience and then do further study and somehow convert to a fully fledged GP. This is obviously just hypothetical but I could see it being a viable route and would entail a similar length of study as the conventional medical school route but just over a longer period of time. Just because this isn't the way it has always been done doesn't take away from the achievements who have done medical school route. For some it is not feasible to take 4/5 years out of your life and be financially supported through this period. It would also give graduates who realize later in life a better option to get into medicine as graduate entry medicine is not accessible to all!
0
kathryncannings
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#16
Report 2 years ago
#16
http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/your-pra...034834.article

Just seen this article... seems others may see it as a viable option too.
0
R Phillip
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#17
Report 2 years ago
#17
(Original post by Reality Check)
those who've worked exceptionally hard for a very long time to become a GP.
What makes you think that PA's did not work "exceptionally" hard?
They might not have studied in medical schools but they earn a Science degree, and its not easy, plus experience in healthcare, plus another 2 years of Masters in PA, completing about 6 years to finally be able to work as Associates to Physicians. Yes they dont have as much clinical experience as their Physician colleagues but they certainly do have what it takes to investigate, treat and also prescribe (which at the moment is not yet authorised). Also, if you've never worked in a surgery nor have a medicine related degree, you should avoid taking part in these conversations.
0
Yarom
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#18
Report 1 year ago
#18
As a Physician Assistant in the states, I can assure that the name has nothing to do with assisting the supervising physician. We are extenders allowing for the practice to see more patients daily. The assistant name came from the founder of PA’s who wanted to pay his new graduates and needed a title to get Duke University to pay for their work. He called them his “assistants to the physician “
0
X
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

How are you feeling ahead of results day?

Very Confident (32)
8.7%
Confident (49)
13.32%
Indifferent (53)
14.4%
Unsure (89)
24.18%
Worried (145)
39.4%

Watched Threads

View All