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    (Original post by StudentBusiness12)
    I don't appreciate the personal remarks you keep throwing in oswy. This is a debate not a training ground for your ego.
    Since you are keen to debate would you like to answer my earlier question and explain what you meant by "true English people"?
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    (Original post by Oswy)
    Is that your way of admitting you enjoy the occasional curry or pizza? lol
    Surely you only need a relatively limited number of immigrants in order to enjoy all the world's cuisine? Enough to run enough restaurants. I think most people on here who oppose immigration, only oppose what they see as excessive numbers, not all immigration or living in a multi-ethnic, multi-cultural society.
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    I think you'll find that living in a multi-cultural society is exactly what a lot of these guys are opposed to... They want to live in some kind of fifties 'utopia' where everybody is white...
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    (Original post by alasdair_R)
    I think you'll find that living in a multi-cultural society is exactly what a lot of these guys are opposed to... They want to live in some kind of fifties 'utopia' where everybody is white...
    Which members of TSR are you referring to?
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    The guys in this thread arguing against multi-culturalism are precisely that - against multi-culturalism. That's who I'm referring to.

    You're going to pull the usual TSR trick and appeal to pedantry, demanding names and quotes, but it's late and I can't be arsed...
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    (Original post by alasdair_R)
    The guys in this thread arguing against multi-culturalism are precisely that - against multi-culturalism. That's who I'm referring to.

    You're going to pull the usual TSR trick and appeal to pedantry, demanding names and quotes, but it's late and I can't be arsed...
    I'm personally opposed to some of the excesses of multi-culturalism. Does that mean I want to live in a fifties utopia of WASPs only to which I will not be allowed to enter?
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    (Original post by gas_panic!)
    I love it how you've somehow managed to extrapolate that i am wrapped up in a BNP ideology from simply asking what multiculturism offers the average Brit in the street. Classic lefty trick. Anyway sunshine, i'll freely admit i like food from all around the globe, why wouldn't i want to? What i struggle to see is what else all these wonderful foreign cultures give me. Maybe you can start by listing the things it offers you, that way you could at least give me a sort of answer instead of trying to be a smart alec.
    I've already answered your question but because you can't attack it you're pretending that nothing happened. You can take what you want from other cultures according to your interests; food, fashion, music, art, religion, family values, community spirit, different perspectives on life, politics and philosophy. Your line of questioning assumes that others have to provide you with something - but what, exactly, do you provide me with?

    Time and again I've made it clear that we have lived in a multicultural society for, at least, centuries. Wherever there is diversity there is multiculturalism and certainly all modern societies carry cultural diversity, regardless of whether or not it is ethnic diversity. The problem is that too many posters believe the BNP pseudo-history which presents a past England (or Britain) as if some kind of country village utopia where everyone knew their place and loved one another, singing hymns and ringing church-bells; but this is a fascist fantasy. But I digress. Aside from a false view of past societies as if they were monocultural paradises, what is offered as criticism of 'multiculturalism' is also too often a cloak for criticism of 'multi-ethnicity'; i.e. criticism of dark faces and 'foreign' religion.

    Anyway it's good to hear you like food from all around the globe, a step towards recognising that new and 'foreign' experiences are neither good nor bad of themselves, but have values by virtue of their content. And, if you do live in an area where there's a local Mela I seriously suggest you attend, they are fun!
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    (Original post by Agamemnon)
    Surely you only need a relatively limited number of immigrants in order to enjoy all the world's cuisine? Enough to run enough restaurants. I think most people on here who oppose immigration, only oppose what they see as excessive numbers, not all immigration or living in a multi-ethnic, multi-cultural society.
    You might think that most people here oppose immigration on the basis of numbers, but the actual posts suggest otherwise - read them. I don't have a problem with people arguing about the economic and social implications that might arise from large influxes of people on the basis of numbers but the people I'm arguing with are quite clearly unhappy with (as they understand it) 'multiculturalism'. Not withstanding that the vegetarian teenage lesbian Goth which lives down the street represents cultural diversity irrispective of her skin colour or ethnic heritages.

    * obviously, if it turns out we're all vegetarian teenage lesbian Goths in here then I'll retract that example
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    The 'British' culture people speak of has adapted to include bits of other cultures that made their presence in Britain. That is what always happens and what will happen. The only problem is you get some ignorant people that try fighting this change when it is pretty much inevitable. In a few generations, (as long as Britain does not turn into a fascist state - rule by Islamists or the BNP) this should happen
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    I challenge you to try and find even 1 English person in Bradford.
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    (Original post by StudentBusiness12)
    I challenge you to try and find even 1 English person in Bradford.
    You've obviously never been to Bradford!
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    (Original post by StudentBusiness12)
    I challenge you to try and find even 1 English person in Bradford.
    Could you define the "true English people" that you spoke of earlier please?
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    Someone English, who's family have being so for many generations.
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    (Original post by StudentBusiness12)
    Someone English, who's family have being so for many generations.
    How many generations? And does that exclude anyone who has say one grandparent who was not English?
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    (Original post by StudentBusiness12)
    Someone English, who's family have being so for many generations.
    What about the descendents of the Hugeunots that came here in the late 17th Century from France - are they English? Or French?
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    (Original post by StudentBusiness12)
    Someone English, who's family have being so for many generations.
    Just another thought (feel free to answer my other two outstanding questions when you get time - or an answer):

    The Royal Family don't count as English, then. Right? :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Oswy)
    It was no more a meaningful question than my response: What can an 'indigenous' southerner offer an 'indigenous' northerner?

    In both cases it's a matter of what an individual brings and what an individual finds interesting or useful. There's no rules that one person's culture must be rewarding or useful to all others.

    And, I notice that you still aren't answering the food question - too wrapped up in your BNP ideology to admit you eat pizzza?
    For God's sake, why do you have to continually ruin perfectly good posts with insults at the end? It really isn't required.
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    As long as the people have been here long enough to accept the culture I couldn't care less where they were from, for example i know a guy who's Indian by blood and colour who's families being here for generations, but i class him as English as he doesn't exercise foreign beliefs in an attempt to squash the native ones. I mentioned generations as to say that most immigrants recently, especially of eastern decent are coming trying to force their views into the country. For example, the recent Islamic cleric who's going round Scotland preaching Islam at every place of eduction, giving people at the school no choice as but to listen to Islam, those who do not wish too. Yes this is a Scottish example, but the same bending of culture occurs everywhere from eastern immigrants. If people have been here for many generations and accept things the way they are then fine.
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    (Original post by alasdair_R)
    His point is that cultures and people have mixed for millenia - it's nothing new, and it's a perfectly good and natural process.
    Except when it is decided British working class culture is in some way inferior and barbaric and needs replacing quick sharp...

    We're all beer-swilling violent thugs us. We need 'cultural re-education'. In fact sod it, replace us with Poles and Nigerians!
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    (Original post by StudentBusiness12)
    As long as the people have been here long enough to accept the culture I couldn't care less where they were from, for example i know a guy who's Indian by blood and colour who's families being here for generations, but i class him as English as he doesn't exercise foreign beliefs in an attempt to squash the native ones. I mentioned generations as to say that most immigrants recently, especially of eastern decent are coming trying to force their views into the country. For example, the recent Islamic cleric who's going round Scotland preaching Islam at every place of eduction, giving people at the school no choice as but to listen to Islam, those who do not wish too. Yes this is a Scottish example, but the same bending of culture occurs everywhere from eastern immigrants. If people have been here for many generations and accept things the way they are then fine.
    A quick backtrack there

    So people are only allowed to come to Britain if they leave their own culture and beliefs at home?

    So tell me - do you ever have a Christmas tree in your house?
 
 
 
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