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    (Original post by Jools)
    So what do you say about the "superior" Japanese who have decided to live at earthquake hotspots, and continue to live there after catastrophic damage (Kobe, 1997)?
    Obviously they can handle it.

    (Original post by Jools)
    "Asians" = the Indian subcontinent - India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh really. In UK it's split quite heavily into two groups at opposite ends of the scale - ambitious and hardcore students (the sons of wealthy doctors, accountants and top businessmen - largely the higher castes of the Indian community and a fair few Pakistanis/Sri Lankans) and a considerable number who don't care less about education - think of the inner city Oldham/Bradford stereotypes - perhaps because their parents didn't need an education to do what they're doing (restaurants, taxi drivers, small businesses etc).
    In the USA the primary definition of "Asian" is the slitty eyed variety; in the UK, as you have noted, it's the curry type.
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    (Original post by lala)
    You've never come across any of the upper class African kids who get sent to Britain to be educated and work work work then have you? I suppose you didn't know that the term 'black' isn't usually considered a particularly useful one when analysing the reactions, attitudes etc of various ethnic groups towards education, because there are such large differences between Africans and Afro-Caribbeans (and even those are generalisations) Not so surprising I guess as these are entirely separate cultures we're talking about. Just thought I ought to clear that up for you.
    Yah, a fine African import:

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...118548,00.html

    Lest I be misunderstood, I should qualify my comments about black people – its black males who both on a collective and individual level prove themselves to be consistent failures – black females are actually very respectable, hardworking, and intelligent.
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    Do you notice any difference between Black African and Black Caribbean males?

    (Original post by Jools)
    Do you notice any difference between Black African and Black Caribbean males?
    The former have AIDS and the latter will get it later?
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    (Original post by Biggles)
    Lest I be misunderstood, I should qualify my comments about black people – its black males who both on a collective and individual level prove themselves to be consistent failures – black females are actually very respectable, hardworking, and intelligent.
    Prior till now, I've let a lot of your comments pass, as you are clearly a cantankerous and bitter individual, among other things...

    This sounds like a slavedriver discourse, I wonder what prompts you to make such outlandish claims - maybe a softspot for African women?

    But then your retort would probably be a claim to the effect that 'statistics would prove this to be the case'. The selfsame statistics which seldom point out that, perhaps, the best education system in the world (when spending per capita is factored in) is located in the Caribbean, as is the leading developing nation according to recent UN development indices - Barbados (for both).

    Reading the Western media, and deriving from it the kind of conclusions which you have, is simply not reflective of the wider picture.

    Just because your socialisation doesn't extend to successful black males, it doesn't mean that they don't exist. My wider relations include a Consultant Gynacologist, a former Senior Crown Counsel in Bermuda, an Internationally-renowned Test Cricketer, a Captain of the Barbados Army - not to mention a former Prime Minister of Trinidad et cetera et cetera. None of these black people are 'failures'. Infact, the males are, generally-speaking, more succesful than their female counterparts (largely because a lot of the females don't need to work).

    By the same token, some of the counter-argument being bandied around about black African males being a world apart from their Caribbean counterparts, is also ill-founded. The vast majority of African states do not have anything like the 99% literacy rate which a certain Windward island has had for years.

    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    Prior till now, I've let a lot of your comments pass, as you are clearly a cantankerous and bitter individual, among other things...

    This sounds like a slavedriver discourse, I wonder what prompts you to make such outlandish claims - maybe a softspot for African women?

    But then your retort would probably be a claim to the effect that 'statistics would prove this to be the case'. The selfsame statistics which seldom point out that, perhaps, the best education system in the world (when spending per capita is factored in) is located in the Caribbean, as is the leading developing nation according to recent UN development indices - Barbados (for both).

    Reading the Western media, and deriving from it the kind of conclusions which you have, is simply not reflective of the wider picture.

    Just because your socialisation doesn't extend to successful black males, it doesn't mean that they don't exist. My wider relations include a Consultant Gynacologist, a former Senior Crown Counsel in Bermuda, an Internationally-renowned Test Cricketer, a Captain of the Barbados Army - not to mention a former Prime Minister of Trinidad et cetera et cetera. None of these black people are 'failures'. Infact, the males are, generally-speaking, more succesful than their female counterparts (largely because a lot of the females don't need to work).

    By the same token, some of the counter-argument being bandied around about black African males being a world apart from their Caribbean counterparts, is also ill-founded. The vast majority of African states do not have anything like the 99% literacy rate which a certain Windward island has had for years.
    Booooorrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiing.
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    Of course, there are plenty of outstanding, intelligent, successful and ambitious black people. Though whilst for Asians I feel there's almost a half-half split between the two 'types', I feel in UK for black males the 'other' group (e.g. those who don't recognise the importance of education etc) seems more prevalent. Thoughts mobbdeeprobb?

    (Original post by Jools)
    Of course, there are plenty of outstanding, intelligent, successful and ambitious black people. Though whilst for Asians I feel there's almost a half-half split between the two 'types', I feel in UK for black males the 'other' group (e.g. those who don't recognise the importance of education etc) seems more prevalent. Thoughts mobbdeeprobb?
    Racist! : rolls eyes
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    (Original post by Biggles)
    Booooorrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiing.
    I suppose shedding light on the positive, high-achievement aspects of black society is rather tedious (or at least the Western media would like to think so).

    Armed robbery, drugs trafficking and inner city struggle are so much more mediaworthy, but that's just not my experience.
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    (Original post by Biggles)
    Racist! : rolls eyes
    Would you class yourself as "racist"? You meet the definition perfectly, i.e. believing that certain races are superior to others. I don't think any one race is superior - all have strong merits and strong weaknesses, though I do think there are distinct differences based on race.

    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    I suppose shedding light on the positive, high-achievement aspects of black society is rather tedious (or at least the Western media would like to think so).

    Armed robbery, drugs trafficking and inner city struggle are so much more mediaworthy, but that's just not my experience.
    Look, I have decided that black males are failures (but am prepared to have a "softspot" for black women due to their excellent blow-j'bs and fuller lips\bum) and no amount of inconvenient empirical evidence to the contrary will change that.
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    (Original post by Biggles)
    (but am prepared to have a "softspot" for black women due to their excellent blow-j'bs and fuller lips\bum)
    The words of experience?

    (Original post by Jools)
    Would you class yourself as "racist"? You meet the definition perfectly, i.e. believing that certain races are superior to others. I don't think any one race is superior - all have strong merits and strong weaknesses, though I do think there are distinct differences based on race.
    If I said that I am a racist, I would be misleading. And if I said that I am not racist, I would also be misleading. I do view races as being different from each other and thus better\lesser relative to each other by various measurements. But I do not hate people or discriminate against them. So I really can’t fall into the simplistic dualism of “racist\non-racist” – I’m beyond such rhetorical categories. I suppose one could call me a realist.

    (Original post by Jools)
    The words of experience?
    You might very well think that but I could not possibly comment.
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    Where I differ to you is that I don't think one race is superior to another just because their culture is deemed more sophisticated or because they are generally considered more intelligent/ambitious.

    (Original post by Jools)
    Where I differ to you is that I don't think one race is superior to another just because their culture is deemed more sophisticated or because they are generally considered more intelligent/ambitious.
    By their fruits...
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    (Original post by Jools)
    Of course, there are plenty of outstanding, intelligent, successful and ambitious black people. Though whilst for Asians I feel there's almost a half-half split between the two 'types', I feel in UK for black males the 'other' group (e.g. those who don't recognise the importance of education etc) seems more prevalent. Thoughts mobbdeeprobb?
    Personally, I wouldn't make a substantive comment without substantiating it, although I see what you are alluding to.

    Yes - in the UK, there would appear to be a degenerate, anti-edification culture, prevalent amongst an alarming number of black males. But then we have to dissect the term 'black'. Most people in this country are, quite often, referring to Jamaican-born blacks - as they are by far the predominant denomination of black Caribbean people(s).

    I firmly believe that black underachievement is very much a British affliction. Somewhere in the transition between traditional, Caribbean values (which promote education to the hilt) and the British education system - something is lost on several black males. Instead of academic stridence, several black males adopt an urban persona - with little interest in education, and a desire for instant gratification.

    However, I feel that large elements of British society have an expectation (from teachers to potential employers) that black males will conform to some of the degenerate traits named earlier - whereas this is not nearly as often the case for Asian (particularly Indian and Oriental) males.

    I feel that a lot of black males, especially British-born, are caught in a 'cultural No Man's Land' - trying desperately to forge a sense of identity, in a society which is overly hostile towards them. This, in my view, has spurred the evolution of a counter-culture - which pays little attention to social mores and, crucially, the views of the older generation. And all the while, this is taking place in a society which is overly hostile towards blacks and black achievement.

    In my view this accounts for the fact that Jamaicans currently contribute 35% of the British prison population.

    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    I firmly believe that black underachievement is very much a British affliction.
    No, it's an afflication on us, not on them.

    And take a look at America and Africa. Total failure.
 
 
 
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