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    Perhaps a poll is in order

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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    Not "duty" in the sense of "obligation", no. More of a moral "ought".Quite. But at the moment we don't have enough money in our own pockets to afford such charity, because the State takes too much of it (sorry, this is horribly simplistic); so the only place it can come from - at least on a meaningful scale - is the government.
    Wrong on both counts.

    1. Moral "oughts" ARE duties.

    2. In the UK, the average person spends 6% of their income on groceries. The vast, vast majority of people in the UK can afford to give to charity. We just don't because we don't give a ****.
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    And that's supposed to make me change my stance?

    Partly I'm arguing for the sake of seeing where it leads, and partly my point is that as a developed country Britain has a duty of charity to the world's unfortunate. We don't have a sufficiently Capitalised system for that charity to be able to come out of the private pocket, so it must come out of the coffers of the State. Or we could just be selfish little isolationists like the US used to be, I suppose.
    I agree. Regardless, if you read the bloody thing they aren't so much 'being fast-tracked' as getting the same treatment as everyone else. I think we as a claimed civilised nation owe a duty of care to those within our borders. If you read they are not getting the same treatment, they are charged for many things we are not. Oh, they do get some help with forms, perhaps that is because their circumstances are different? What kind of country could we claim to be if we turned seriously injured people away from hospitals on the grounds 'they're foreign'. Not good enough. I don't extrapolate that as owing 'a duty of care' to the WORLD's unfortunate, as I'm not sure how less than 1% of the world populace can be taxed to pay for it :p:.

    I suppose happybob, you would wish to see children denied NHS treatment as they have not 'put in a penny'?

    EDIT - HC1, isn't that an NHS dentistry application form? E.g., it doesn't matter if they get fast-tracked, their aren't any NHS dentists left :p:.
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    HC1 is a means tested thing to determine what services you need to pay for. Basically, it's about whether you get a free eye test or not, based on income.
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    (Original post by dogtanian)
    HC1 is a means tested thing to determine what services you need to pay for. Basically, it's about whether you get a free eye test or not, based on income.
    Thought I'd heard of it somewhere. I once filled one in for glasses.

    So basically the OP is blowing hot air. It's not like people are dying for the benefit of asylum seekers. In fact it makes sense considering asylum seekers probably wouldn't have had access to these things in their original country and wouldn't have any money to even buy them now with the hope of getting their money back later on.
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    Exactly. It just means their application for it might possibly be processed before mine is. It'll still happen, and I can't imagine the difference being great enough for anyone to even notice.

    unless you want to, I dunno, say get oh so outraged, and misrepresent it as them dirty foreigners going in first for minor surgery while babies and the elderly are suffering in squalor by neglecting to mention that this sensational revelation really is as banal and of such little consequence as a form to fill in.
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    Excuse me for not wrapping myself in the flag, donning a white hood and contacting my local effigy maker (whom, incidentally, I have on speed dial) but these are the reasons I couldn't care less:

    1) This a fast tracking of forms to the assessment process, not within it.
    2) The forms being fast tracked (HC1) are applications for HC2 certificates, which confirm one's eligibility for support with health care costs.
    i) HC2 forms are automatically supplied to those that the support services know qualify. i.e. if you've filled out a tax form or benefit application, you're not involved in this process.
    ii)Those asylum seekers supported by the National Asylum Support Service (NASS) have already been dealt with.

    Given that our war veteran will already have his HC2 and so will our poor single mother or brave unemployed coal miner, that net tax payers and all those with >£16000 in property or assets won't be eligible and that those that have become poor since their latest tax return - but feel compelled to selectively apply for this benefit but not others that would automatically grant this one - don't really deserve much sympathy, those lines of complaint are redundant. Given that asylum seekers generally arrive in this country with little or nothing and that students have already leeched net tens of thousands of pounds out of society in order to personally profit, the 'contribution' line is also out. Essentially we have the forms of asylum seekers arriving for consideration slightly faster than those of the students that make up almost the entirety of the 'fast-tracked over'.

    So, basically, what you're asking me is 'am I inclined to give a flying **** that the applications of well qualified students arrive slightly later than the applications of the destitute'? The answer, given that I don't support the NHS triaging by passport, is NO.
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    your all mad. its a national health service, for "us", not "them". We do not owe the world free healthcare.
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    (Original post by City bound)
    Excuse me for not wrapping myself in the flag, donning a white hood and contacting my local effigy maker (whom, incidentally, I have on speed dial)
    Why do you have to boil this down to such silliness?
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    You mean that once they get here, if they fall and break their leg, you wouldn't want the NHS to help them? Harsh..

    Even people who are ill when they get here, it's surely in everyone's interest to help them out. Particularly if they're, like, contageous.. Besides, I'm just not hard hearted enough to want to leave them dying in the streets.



    Assylum seekers are going to be allowed health care. Face it. That doesn't change the subject put forward by the OP in such a sensationalist way. Fact is, the OP's point is, well, tosh.
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    (Original post by dogtanian)
    You mean that once they get here, if they fall and break their leg, you wouldn't want the NHS to help them? Harsh..

    Even people who are ill when they get here, it's surely in everyone's interest to help them out. Particularly if they're, like, contageous..
    If they're like contagious they shouldn't like be like let in. What kind of crap is the country importing these days? In the US immigrants are screaned for certain diseases. If you have HIV you can **** off back where you came from. Quite rightly so.
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    Even relatively minor, but still contageous, immigrants? Do they have to **** off back?

    HIV is, funnily enough, not the only disease that can be passed on.
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    (Original post by dogtanian)
    Even relatively minor, but still contageous, immigrants? Do they have to **** off back?

    HIV is, funnily enough, not the only disease that can be passed on.
    Yes I know.:rolleyes:
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    Well why make such an obtuse comment about HIV sufferers when it's near enough irrelevant?


    If you can't be bothered to do it properly, I'd save yerself the bother and not do it at all.
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    What is the function of a State Health Service? To help those in need of health care.
    vital piece left out. the function should be to care for citizens of the state.
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    seems to be in this country if you're a complete basket case sponger you get welcomed in with open arms.

    ****ING LIBERAL SCUM.
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    (Original post by technik)
    vital piece left out. the function should be to care for citizens of the state.
    That's not true.
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    (Original post by Zebedee)
    your all mad. its a national health service, for "us", not "them". We do not owe the world free healthcare.
    Who's "them" and who's "us"? Of course it's not for the entire world, but those who are live here are entitled to its services.
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    (Original post by Zebedee)
    your all mad. its a national health service, for "us", not "them". We do not owe the world free healthcare.
    Indeed. If 'us' = 'those within the arbitrarily defined borders of the UK' and 'them' = 'those outside said borders'. Why should asylum seekers be denied access to the NHS? If their application is successful they enter and will get it anyway, if it's not successful they leave and don't use it. However, whilst they're in limbo, why deny it?
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    (Original post by Gilliwoo)
    Who's "them" and who's "us"? Of course it's not for the entire world, but those who are live here are entitled to its services.
    more liberal ****e.

    again, vital information omitted.

    those who LEGALLY live here should be entitled. not any ******* who came half way across the world in the belly of a cargo ship
 
 
 
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