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Why do Brexiteers hate the rule of law? watch

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    It has astonished me to see the reaction of the press and leave voters to the three high court judges.
    The Daily Mail criticised one for being 'openly gay' and called the three judges 'enemies of the people'
    The Daily Telegraph was much the same (minus the gay slur)
    The Daily Express lied and accused the judges of 'blocking Brexit'.

    And in the press we have had lots of Tory MPs criticising the court's decision as they believe it was politically wrong.

    Let's get things straight:

    • The High court was asked a legal question, not a political one. It was asked what the legal process for exiting the EU was, as a matter of British constitutional law.
    • The referendum was politically binding but not legally binding. So saying that the judges made the incorrect legal decision because '17.4 million voted' leave is totally irrelevant to a court case as the referendum had no legal effect.
    • The decision does not 'block Brexit' in any way, shape or form. It simply states the correct legal process for Brexit as a matter of British law.

    It seems that a great deal of leave voters want our courts to disapply the rule of law and judge a legal case on political, rather than legal considerations.It is absolutely disgusting to see our independent judiciary labelled as 'enemies of the people' and have their credibility questioned for upholding the rule of law and making the correct legal decision.

    In our country we believe in the rule of law, that no one is above the law. Not celebrities, not politicians, not the government and not even the royal family.

    I don't know why so many hate that so much.
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    Brexiters most likely haven't even heard of the Rule of Law.

    They clearly would prefer a certain Zimbabwe of the past. :rolleyes:

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    (Original post by _Fergo)
    Brexiters most likely haven't even heard of the Rule of Law.

    They clearly would prefer a certain Zimbabwe of the past. :rolleyes:

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    Some people won't, but high level MPs and journalists most certainly would have yet they are deliberately conflating law and politics.

    I have seen several MPs argue that the court decision was wrong because '17.4 million voted to leave'. The referendum had no legal effect and cannot be taken into consideration in a court of LAW.

    It seems that they want our courts to abandon legal principles and the rule of law and instead decide a case on political considerations.
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    People hate it because they don't trust that the bureaucrats they elect are entirely representative of them and they consider these judges to be part of the 'elite establishment'.

    Ultimately the people were given power for once and they now fear that this power will not be realised.
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    Its not just people that wanted to leave that this now concerned. It basically says that there is no point voting because it means nothing. If MP's can over turn a ruling of 17 million people (which is what this is threatening, you cant deny it), what was the point of voting at all? British Law is based on individual cases, we have no constitution meaning this could have been discussed for longer before a decision was made. The issues this causes is now any vote that is held could be subject to this rule as this case can now be held to reference. It sets a little bit of a dangerous precedent as it could become that every vote that is taken would become subject to a MP vote until the "right" answer is obtained.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    People hate it because they don't trust that the bureaucrats they elect are entirely representative of them and they consider these judges to be part of the 'elite establishment'.

    Ultimately the people were given power for once and they now fear that this power will not be realised.
    Do you not feel that there is anything wrong with our independent judges being called 'enemies of the people'? That type of language is so dangerous, it wouldn't look out of place in 1930s Germany.

    The judges made a legal decision based on legal considerations. If you disagree with their judgement on a legal basis that is fair enough. But so many seem to be arguing that our judges should abandon legal principles and decide a case on its political merits.

    That is absurd.
    In Britain we have one of the oldest and best legal systems anywhere with some of the most highly qualified judges. We should protect their independence.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Some people won't, but high level MPs and journalists most certainly would have yet they are deliberately conflating law and politics.

    I have seen several MPs argue that the court decision was wrong because '17.4 million voted to leave'. The referendum had no legal effect and cannot be taken into consideration in a court of LAW.

    It seems that they want our courts to abandon legal principles and the rule of law and instead decide a case on political considerations.
    These politicians and newspapers (whilst still likely not to know much) are trying to develop a mob mentality to their citizens. It's clearly working.

    (Original post by Rakas21)
    People hate it because they don't trust that the bureaucrats they elect are entirely representative of them and they consider these judges to be part of the 'elite establishment'.

    Ultimately the people were given power for once and they now fear that this power will not be realised.
    You fool - they only reason you were given this power is because the rule of law exists. I can't believe I'm reading this crap.

    Do you aspire to live in countries like Zimbabwe or something?

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    (Original post by Samonia)
    Its not just people that wanted to leave that this now concerned. It basically says that there is no point voting because it means nothing. If MP's can over turn a ruling of 17 million people (which is what this is threatening, you cant deny it), what was the point of voting at all? British Law is based on individual cases, we have no constitution meaning this could have been discussed for longer before a decision was made. The issues this causes is now any vote that is held could be subject to this rule as this case can now be held to reference. It sets a little bit of a dangerous precedent as it could become that every vote that is taken would become subject to a MP vote until the "right" answer is obtained.

    It was a correct decision as a matter of British constituional law. You may argue that the referendum should have been legally binding and that's a fair argument. But it wasn't and the court's can't deal in 'should have been'.

    It is not up to our judges to say 'the referendum should have been legally binding so we are going to pretend it is'. It wasn't legally binding and the court therefore cannot take it into account.It's that simple.

    It doesn't block Brexit, it just ensures Brexit is carried out in the correct legal way.
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    (Original post by _Fergo)
    These politicians and newspapers (whilst still likely not to know much) are trying to develop a mob mentality to their citizens. It's clearly working.



    You fool - they only reason you were given this power is because the rule of law exists. I can't believe I'm reading this crap.

    Do you aspire to live in countries like Zimbabwe or something?

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    Honestly, seeing our judges labelled 'enemies of the people' is exactly the type of headline you would have seen in 1930s Germany. It is so, so dangerous.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Do you not feel that there is anything wrong with our independent judges being called 'enemies of the people'? That type of language is so dangerous, it wouldn't look out of place in 1930s Germany.

    The judges made a legal decision based on legal considerations. If you disagree with their judgement on a legal basis that is fair enough. But so many seem to be arguing that our judges should abandon legal principles and decide a case on its political merits.

    That is absurd.
    In Britain we have one of the oldest and best legal systems anywhere with some of the most highly qualified judges. We should protect their independence.
    Generally speaking i agree with you and have a lot of respect for the legal establishment but at the same time i don't consider it a shock because i feel i understand the feelings behind this anger.

    (Original post by _Fergo)
    These politicians and newspapers (whilst still likely not to know much) are trying to develop a mob mentality to their citizens. It's clearly working.

    You fool - they only reason you were given this power is because the rule of law exists. I can't believe I'm reading this crap.

    Do you aspire to live in countries like Zimbabwe or something?

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    I never supported the referendum being given and nor do i now. I completely understand the rule of law and can only assume you have never read my posts.

    There is a difference between understanding the argument and it being my own view.
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    You seem to be forgetting these are the same people who wanted to leave the EU because if laws they generally couldn't name and because of hoovers and kettles not being powerful enough...

    A good chunk of the country are utterly mad (and I include those who think we need a second referendum in the next few years too)

    Whilst the judges were absolutely correct in their ruling we need to leave asap before things get even worse.
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    Suzanne Evans called for judges to be sacked.

    And I thought she was the sane one...
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    Because they have a self-persecution complex and have been told what to think by hysterical tabloids and short-term minded governments for years now, so it's no surprise that a bunch of them are tipping over into fanaticism. Seriously though, the front cover of the Daily Mail was one of the most sickening things I have seen in a newspaper in a very long time. I thought this cartoon in The Guardian sums up things well...

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    And after the vote came through, Remoaners demanded another referendum.

    All we've proved is that the British public are all sore losers, which should come as no surprise.

    oh britannia, britannia rule the wavesssss
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    Pompous tosser.
    I genuinely want to know your thoughts on the daily mail and the daily telegraph labelling our judges as 'enemies of the people' for making a correct legal decision.

    Do you think it's acceptable for our independent judiciary to be attacked like that because many people are not intelligent enough to understand British constitutional law?

    Genuinely that daily Mail headline would not look out of place in the 1930s. Calling people you don't like as 'enemies of the people' is so, so dangerous.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    You seem to be forgetting these are the same people who wanted to leave the EU because if laws they generally couldn't name and because of hoovers and kettles not being powerful enough...

    A good chunk of the country are utterly mad (and I include those who think we need a second referendum in the next few years too)

    Whilst the judges were absolutely correct in their ruling we need to leave asap before things get even worse.
    But it wasn't just working class poorly educated voters, it was high level Tory MPs and journalists who were criticising the judges for making a legal decision which upheld the rule of law.


    For the first time I am genuinely worried about the safety of this country. When judges are described as 'enemies of the people' for upholding the rule of law and when the woman who brought the challenge reviewed several death threats, when MPs like Jo Cox who supported free movement, are murdered.


    We should never take liberty, tolerance and openness for granted.

    The populist right wing uprising which is happening accross the world poses far more of a threat to civilisation than Islamic extremism ever has.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    But it wasn't just working class poorly educated voters, it was high level Tory MPs and journalists who were criticising the judges for making a legal decision which upheld the rule of law.
    They were the i es comparing the EU to the third reich.

    For the first time I am genuinely worried about the safety of this country. When judges are described as 'enemies of the people' for upholding the rule of law and when the woman who brought the challenge reviewed several death threats, when MPs like Jo Cox who supported free movemen, are murdered.
    Strongly agree.

    The populist right wing uprising which is happening accross the world poses far more of a threat to civilisation than Islamic extremism ever has.
    Strongly disagree.
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    Liz Truss needs to explain why she has stayed quiet, despite her obligations as Lord Chancellor.

    Then she should resign.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    They were the i es comparing the EU to the third reich.



    Strongly agree.



    Strongly disagree.
    The difference is that I think Islamic Extremism in the western world will be restricted to isolated acts of terror.

    Right wing populism however will sweep all before it, making us a far less tolerant, open and liberal society. It will normalise and potentially legalise the politics of scapegoating, discrimination and fear.

    That to me is far more concerning.

    We should never take tolerance, liberty and openness for granted. We have seen the sheer evil that humans are capable of when they are not in place.
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    Indeed, they are doing their job, the antagonism is entirely unwarranted. And I voted to leave.
 
 
 
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