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Chances with German Abitur
Hi!
I have finished my secondary school education this year in Germany by achieving an overall score of 1,1 (which is, in reference to the university of sussex, AAA but I do not know whether this is a valid comparison or not). According to LSE and Oxbridge, such a score is sufficient to apply - in theory. But what about my real chances? Does anyone know any admitted Germans with equal scores? My examination subjects were History and English as majors (=5 hours per week) and maths and social science as minors (=3 hours per week). I would probably try to go for joint degrees such as Government and Economics.
The second issue: Living costs. The LSE states that 1 000 pounds are needed monthly (in London) so that the total amount of living costs per academic year should be around 9000 pounds for an undergraduate program. In light of these figures, financing would be very tough for me. Do you think that it is possible not to spend more than about 850 pounds (and still live without suffering too much :-) )? Assuming that accomodation will be around 320 pounds, I cannot believe that 680 pounds are required for food and so on. In addition, I am aware of the fact that there are not too many scholarships for undergrads and gaining one of these is highly competitive. Thus, the costs might be a serious point for my decision. But, however, getting into the program is maybe way too difficult.
Looking forward to your answers.
Tobi
I have finished my secondary school education this year in Germany by achieving an overall score of 1,1 (which is, in reference to the university of sussex, AAA but I do not know whether this is a valid comparison or not). According to LSE and Oxbridge, such a score is sufficient to apply - in theory. But what about my real chances? Does anyone know any admitted Germans with equal scores? My examination subjects were History and English as majors (=5 hours per week) and maths and social science as minors (=3 hours per week). I would probably try to go for joint degrees such as Government and Economics.
The second issue: Living costs. The LSE states that 1 000 pounds are needed monthly (in London) so that the total amount of living costs per academic year should be around 9000 pounds for an undergraduate program. In light of these figures, financing would be very tough for me. Do you think that it is possible not to spend more than about 850 pounds (and still live without suffering too much :-) )? Assuming that accomodation will be around 320 pounds, I cannot believe that 680 pounds are required for food and so on. In addition, I am aware of the fact that there are not too many scholarships for undergrads and gaining one of these is highly competitive. Thus, the costs might be a serious point for my decision. But, however, getting into the program is maybe way too difficult.
Looking forward to your answers.
Tobi
680/4 = 170. Wow, thats some serious alcohol consumption. I would say that 850 would be more than enough and excluding travel (flights home) and excessive drinking, I think you could cut it more
About your examination system, I would contact the university departments admissions tutors before applying.
About your examination system, I would contact the university departments admissions tutors before applying.
Reply 3
tobeC15
OP
Hi!
Thanks for your answers.
I am reliefed to hear that 1000 pounds seems to be too much per month. Anyway I will have to find channels for financing in case I would be offered a place.
The average score of 1,0 is the maximum, 4,0 the lowest grade you can achieve in the German Abitur. Hence, I think that I have at least the formal chance for an application.
But I'm still wondering if it is not better to apply at postgraduate level since the costs should not be that extreme by then.
Nevertheless: You people in Britain can be thankful for your excellent institutions. Searching for employable AND academic degrees can be frustrating over here.
Thanks for your answers.
I am reliefed to hear that 1000 pounds seems to be too much per month. Anyway I will have to find channels for financing in case I would be offered a place.
The average score of 1,0 is the maximum, 4,0 the lowest grade you can achieve in the German Abitur. Hence, I think that I have at least the formal chance for an application.
But I'm still wondering if it is not better to apply at postgraduate level since the costs should not be that extreme by then.
Nevertheless: You people in Britain can be thankful for your excellent institutions. Searching for employable AND academic degrees can be frustrating over here.
Reply 5
tobeC15
You people in Britain can be thankful for your excellent institutions. Searching for employable AND academic degrees can be frustrating over here.
True, but we have to pay through the nose for them, with most of us in thousands of pounds in debt after graduating. Isn't uni in Germany free? Or at least much cheaper?
welshleprechaun
True, but we have to pay through the nose for them, with most of us in thousands of pounds in debt after graduating. Isn't uni in Germany free? Or at least much cheaper?
That has got to be one of the most narrow minded comments I have heard in a while. Please, give me the pleasure of explaining your reasoning.
Reply 8
tobeC15
OP
Hi!
I think the fees I would have to pay are the same UK students need to pay as the unis always refer to the students as "Home/EU".
You are right, studying in UK is quite expansive while it is muich cheaper here (about 1000 pounds per year). But, considering that you can opt for the leading universities in the world the fees are - in my opinion - relatively low. In addition, there is a great chance of getting a well-payed job after graduation from top unis. In case you attend a quite weak uni ( I don't know which one can be called so in UK) you're paying relatively high fees. However, the chances you later on have, strongly correlate with your performance at school. In Germany, this is just hardly the case as there is nothing equal to Oxbridge or LSE. Reputation plays a minor role.
There is one more question: For Cambridge and Oxford, British students have to send in "written schoolwork" after having applied. What kind of school works are these and what do international students have to send?
I think the fees I would have to pay are the same UK students need to pay as the unis always refer to the students as "Home/EU".
You are right, studying in UK is quite expansive while it is muich cheaper here (about 1000 pounds per year). But, considering that you can opt for the leading universities in the world the fees are - in my opinion - relatively low. In addition, there is a great chance of getting a well-payed job after graduation from top unis. In case you attend a quite weak uni ( I don't know which one can be called so in UK) you're paying relatively high fees. However, the chances you later on have, strongly correlate with your performance at school. In Germany, this is just hardly the case as there is nothing equal to Oxbridge or LSE. Reputation plays a minor role.
There is one more question: For Cambridge and Oxford, British students have to send in "written schoolwork" after having applied. What kind of school works are these and what do international students have to send?
Reply 9
For Oxford you have to send in 2 pieces of written work, no matter where you're from. They can either be written under timed conditions (exams/klausuren) or as graded coursework. Make sure to explain under what circumstances yours were done.
Oh, and of course you'll have to translate them if they're in German.
good luck
edit: They should also be related to whatever subject you are applying for.
Oh, and of course you'll have to translate them if they're in German.
good luck
edit: They should also be related to whatever subject you are applying for.
Reply 10
Schajin
They should also be related to whatever subject you are applying for.
Only if you've studied that subject in school, or HAVE essays related to the subject. What exactly you have to send varies.
And OP: email the unis asking what the average offer is for Abitur. 1,1 seems pretty high so I expect you'll have as good a chance as anyone who meets the entry requirements of getting a place.
Reply 11
tobeC15
OP
Thanks for the answers again.
I think that sending in written test papers ("Klausuren") which are to be done within 4 or even 5 hours might be good because topics such as ethics, (economic and social) globalization and politics are covered by most test papers in my subjects.
Will I receive instructions by the university about what to send in?
So, can the course of application be stated as follows?
1. I will have to apply with UCAS only by typing in my marks (or will I have to send a legalised copy of my high school diploma?)
2. After that, I will have to send in my written work (?)
3. I will get information about whether I can take part in the pre-interview test.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
I want to thank you for your efforts at helping me.
Tobi
I think that sending in written test papers ("Klausuren") which are to be done within 4 or even 5 hours might be good because topics such as ethics, (economic and social) globalization and politics are covered by most test papers in my subjects.
Will I receive instructions by the university about what to send in?
So, can the course of application be stated as follows?
1. I will have to apply with UCAS only by typing in my marks (or will I have to send a legalised copy of my high school diploma?)
2. After that, I will have to send in my written work (?)
3. I will get information about whether I can take part in the pre-interview test.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
I want to thank you for your efforts at helping me.
Tobi
Reply 12
tobeC15
Thanks for the answers again.
I think that sending in written test papers ("Klausuren") which are to be done within 4 or even 5 hours might be good because topics such as ethics, (economic and social) globalization and politics are covered by most test papers in my subjects.
Will I receive instructions by the university about what to send in?
So, can the course of application be stated as follows?
1. I will have to apply with UCAS only by typing in my marks (or will I have to send a legalised copy of my high school diploma?)
2. After that, I will have to send in my written work (?)
3. I will get information about whether I can take part in the pre-interview test.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
I want to thank you for your efforts at helping me.
Tobi
I think that sending in written test papers ("Klausuren") which are to be done within 4 or even 5 hours might be good because topics such as ethics, (economic and social) globalization and politics are covered by most test papers in my subjects.
Will I receive instructions by the university about what to send in?
So, can the course of application be stated as follows?
1. I will have to apply with UCAS only by typing in my marks (or will I have to send a legalised copy of my high school diploma?)
2. After that, I will have to send in my written work (?)
3. I will get information about whether I can take part in the pre-interview test.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
I want to thank you for your efforts at helping me.
Tobi
I think if your essays are only in German, it might be best to write new ones in English rather than translating them - Oxford (my experience is only with Oxford; don't know about Cambridge!) will suggest appropriate essay titles that you can write especially if you ask.
Yes, once you've applied you'll receive a letter telling you what you need to send and the deadline (usually around a month after the application deadline?), though it will say in the prospectus/website as well what you need to send. After that you'll get asked to interview (or rejected!), and if there is a written test required that will take place on the interview days.
I think you only have to send off a certified copy of your qualifications once you've been made an unconditional offer.
1) Will I receive instructions by the university about what to send in?
It should be available on the Collge's website. Normally, you chose what to send in.
2) I will have to apply with UCAS only by typing in my marks (or will I have to send a legalised copy of my high school diploma?)
With UCAS you need to simply type your marks; however, Oxford will ask you to send the official certificate if an offer is made.
3) After that, I will have to send in my written work (?)
You need to send it in by the 10th of November. I would send it around the same time as the OAF.
4) I will get information about whether I can take part in the pre-interview test.
You have to take the test this year. Normally, it will be in your school or at the British Council. Contact admissions for information.
It should be available on the Collge's website. Normally, you chose what to send in.
2) I will have to apply with UCAS only by typing in my marks (or will I have to send a legalised copy of my high school diploma?)
With UCAS you need to simply type your marks; however, Oxford will ask you to send the official certificate if an offer is made.
3) After that, I will have to send in my written work (?)
You need to send it in by the 10th of November. I would send it around the same time as the OAF.
4) I will get information about whether I can take part in the pre-interview test.
You have to take the test this year. Normally, it will be in your school or at the British Council. Contact admissions for information.
Reply 14
As an EU student, you can get a fee loan but no student loan. Rent outside London at around 320-350/month sounds fair, in London you're looking at 400-450/month. If you have food around 20/week and travel at 15/week (London; Oxford is easily accessible on foot/by bike) that would leave you with around £50 a week spending money in London and £75 outside London before you hit the £850 mark.
You could try financing part of that by getting a part-time job (that's what I did as an undergrad). It would also be worth checking if your parents still receive Kindergeld for you (child benefit) - my parents did as I was under 27 when I went to a British uni and that almost covered my rent (I studied in the North of England where a room could be had for £200 a month - happy days!)
Apart from that you could try the DAAD but I doubt they have a lot of money for those wanting to do their entire degree outside Germany. Maybe Oxford has scholarships that you could apply for as a German citizen? A 1.1 Abitur is bloody good and should make you a competitive candidate. And I agree with a previous poster on writing samples for Oxford - just email them and ask what you could send them.
And finally: have you got any extracurriculars that you could talk about in the UCAS statement? Some German schools don't have lots of after school clubs - did you get involved in anything at school (sports, school newspaper, photo club etc.) or in your spare time?
You could try financing part of that by getting a part-time job (that's what I did as an undergrad). It would also be worth checking if your parents still receive Kindergeld for you (child benefit) - my parents did as I was under 27 when I went to a British uni and that almost covered my rent (I studied in the North of England where a room could be had for £200 a month - happy days!)
Apart from that you could try the DAAD but I doubt they have a lot of money for those wanting to do their entire degree outside Germany. Maybe Oxford has scholarships that you could apply for as a German citizen? A 1.1 Abitur is bloody good and should make you a competitive candidate. And I agree with a previous poster on writing samples for Oxford - just email them and ask what you could send them.
And finally: have you got any extracurriculars that you could talk about in the UCAS statement? Some German schools don't have lots of after school clubs - did you get involved in anything at school (sports, school newspaper, photo club etc.) or in your spare time?
Reply 15
Oh, and are going to postpone your military/social service, or do it before you start uni?
Reply 16
tobeC15
OP
Hi!
I have some extracurricular activities and no, I do not have to to military/ social service.
So, you suggest to send an e-mail directly to the admissions offices of the Unis?
@Varecia: Please check your pm :-)
T.
I have some extracurricular activities and no, I do not have to to military/ social service.
So, you suggest to send an e-mail directly to the admissions offices of the Unis?
@Varecia: Please check your pm :-)
T.
Reply 17
So, you suggest to send an e-mail directly to the admissions offices of the Unis?
That is what I did to ask about my chances with the Austrian Reifeprüfungszeugnis. (To your information I attend an HTL which might sound familiar to you... at least, you could have heard of it.) I wrote directly to in my case a Cambridge admissions office and I got a very kind answer full to the brim with useful information.
Long story short: They are quite open-minded and will just tell you to apply. I attend a very unusual type of school which can not be directly compared to anything in the UK and everything I had to do for a "yes, do it" was to explain what I did in maths at school... so you're chances with 1.1 are as high as everybody's.
Walter
Varecia
Apart from that you could try the DAAD but I doubt they have a lot of money for those wanting to do their entire degree outside Germany.
You're right, they don't. The DAAD only pays for exchange programmes (ERASMUS and the like). Auslandsbafög won't be an option either, as you need to have spent at least one year at a German university.
Maybe Oxford has scholarships that you could apply for as a German citizen?
I'm afraid not.
His best option would probably be to try for German scholarships (Studienstiftung des deutschen Volkes etc.), although most of them will only pay for a year abroad, but not for an entire degree done in the UK.
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