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Henry VII watch

  • View Poll Results: Was Henry VII a good leader?
    Yes
    28
    82.35%
    No
    3
    8.82%
    "Never heard of the guy. Wasn't he the fat one with loads of wives?" NO YOU IDIOT! THAT'S HENRY VIII. "Sorry! No need to get all worked up!"
    3
    8.82%

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    Good leader or bad? Why?

    From what I've read, he's very meticulous and obsessed with the financial status of the country.

    Has he been successful as king is YOUR opinion?
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    This thread, which tries to stimulate historiographical debate, is the kind of thread that should be encouraged. Unfortunately, I have no prior knowledge of Henry VII beyond the fact that he became King after the Battle of Bosworth and that he had a Lord Chancellor called John Morton. Oh, and that he wore a hat.
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    Ah Henry Tudor, Earl of Richmond. A good leader? Well, he was good at slaying his enemies and securing his throne for his successors. Comes over as a bit of a swine though. I think Richard III has been unfairly treated by history, and by Shakespeare.
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    Ruthless, Vigorous, Selective, Patient, Rational and Manipulative. An ideal leader if ever there was one, at an important transitional stage in English history. Perhaps his only great weakness was his poor relationship with his second son.
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    Or the fact that he was profoundly disliked by most of his population on the grounds that he was aviricious. And was thought to be a coward after Treaty of étaples in 1492 when rather to going to war with France and reclaiming territory he signed it officially back to the French for a monatory sum of gold. (Hmmm.. Yr 11 History!)
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    (Original post by Fillette)
    Or the fact that he was profoundly disliked by most of his population on the grounds that he was aviricious. And was thought to be a coward after Treaty of étaples in 1492 when rather to going to war with France and reclaiming territory he signed it officially back to the French for a monatory sum of gold. (Hmmm.. Yr 11 History!)
    Yes, but at the same time he realized how vitally important it was to secure his dynasty. To go to war, would be to take the risk of death and thus his dynasty. It was a risk he was never willing to take and rightly so. He was indeed a successful king in his ability to constrain the nobility through bonds and recognisances and his ability to create a web of alliances with countries abroad (e.g. France in 1492 and Spain with the Treaty of Medina Del Campo).
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    Did I hear corrrectly that Hevry VII was a little late in offering funding to Columbus to sail west and by the time word got to Columbus he had already agreed to sail for Spain?

    Things would have probably been so different had his voyage been English-funded instead of Spain-funded.

    (I'm not a history student or anything....so sory if my comments are pretty dumb :p:)
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    (Original post by Roger Kirk)
    Did I hear corrrectly that Hevry VII was a little late in offering funding to Columbus to sail west and by the time word got to Columbus he had already agreed to sail for Spain?

    Things would have probably been so different had his voyage been English-funded instead of Spain-funded.

    (I'm not a history student or anything....so sory if my comments are pretty dumb :p:)
    Yes, but he supported the Cabbots.
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    (Original post by The Anthropologist)
    Yes, but he supported the Cabbots.
    And there you've lost me, sorry
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    (Original post by Roger Kirk)
    And there you've lost me, sorry
    John and Sebastian Cabbot, navigators and explorer - so he did do something for the exploration and shipping industry.
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    (Original post by The Anthropologist)
    John and Sebastian Cabbot, navigators and explorer - so he did do something for the exploration and shipping industry.
    Obviosuly not as famously important though...even if their voyages were just as important :p:
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    (Original post by v-zero)
    Ruthless, Vigorous, Selective, Patient, Rational and Manipulative. An ideal leader if ever there was one, at an important transitional stage in English history. Perhaps his only great weakness was his poor relationship with his second son.
    I completely agree. His meticulous personality also made Henry an ideal king - especially at the time. With rebellion and deposition creeping around every corner, it was expected to have a king so shrewd and enigmatic.

    However, he was not always so ruthless in his ways. During his reign, he also gave out money to normal civilians, for random events, services and various over reasons. Does this contradict his dark and mysterious actions as king?
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    (Original post by [email protected])
    I completely agree. His meticulous personality also made Henry an ideal king - especially at the time. With rebellion and deposition creeping around every corner, it was expected to have a king so shrewd and enigmatic.

    However, he was not always so ruthless in his ways. During his reign, he also gave out money to normal civilians, for random events, services and various over reasons. Does this contradict his dark and mysterious actions as king?
    His actions of dispensing money to the public only enforces his meticulous greedy personality and his avarice. Surely this must oppose the belief of a good king.
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    Henry VII could arguably described as one of Britains best kings. He transformed Britain in a period of rebellion and economic decline. Through securing his own dynasty, he secured a stable monarchy. People mention his unpopularity and rapaciousness, yes Henry was unpopular but there was no widespread revolt against him unlike other kings such as John or Henry VI. Also, what strikes me about Henry is how well he plays the part of Machiavellis 'Prince', doing much of what Machiavelli suggests to maintain a strong kingdom.
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    He founded King's College, Cambridge didn't he? How nice of him.
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    I've always heard that he was a 'good' King, and that his main achievement was putting the nation's finances on a more stable footing.
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    he is, in my opinion, the most pragmatic, understanding and responsible monarch of the Tudor dynasty. He recognised that Britain was not in a position to be a continental superpower at the time and spend his time attempting to strengthen the crown and bolster the treasury. He wasn't hugely popular but he made the crown stable and financially buoyant and I think his reign was a great success.
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    Sorry if I sound like I'm begging or something now, but do you think it would be possible to have some evidence and statements to back up your opinions?

    I've just begun Henry VII
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    (Original post by jjpp)
    he is, in my opinion, the most pragmatic, understanding and responsible monarch of the Tudor dynasty. He recognised that Britain was not in a position to be a continental superpower at the time and spend his time attempting to strengthen the crown and bolster the treasury. He wasn't hugely popular but he made the crown stable and financially buoyant and I think his reign was a great success.
    Indeed, "financially buoyant", yet whilst some historians like S.B.Chrimes and Lockyer make note of Henry's financial grandeur (apparently leaving 240,000 pounds in plates and jewels for his son), others like Penry Williams state how such a "legend" is "certainly false" ("Tudor Regime"). Nevertheless what he did do was fence off, what can only be called, major rebellions (e.g. Cornish rebellion of 1497 and of course those of Simnel and Warbeck). Finally, but not least, he secured a dynasty that was to be in for the long haul, not through innovative, risky policies, but through creating a stable, secure and solvent monarchy. As Sir Francis Bacon reminds us, it was not until 1490 that Henry was to have the "felicity of full cofffers".
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    He took Britain into a time of great economic growth after the war the roses when Britain was a total mess leaving his predecessor Henry VIII to transform the country completely.

    He his perhaps like the guy you see in football, who makes the awsum pass to the tall guy that heads the ball in and scores the goal and effectively takes the glory - Henry VII economically set Henry VIII up to change the face of England, and that's why its always Henry VIII we remember the name off (not just because of the wives). He was a a great king, relying on loyalty and ability of all the men on his council not just friendship like previous king's had. Yes i would agree that his reign became ruthless after his wife Elizabeth of York and his son Arthur died in 1502 and 1503, but in the end he ruled very effectively.
 
 
 
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