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Are the days of 'centre ground' politics over for good? watch

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    As it says on the tin. You know, the Blair/Brown/Mandelson/Cameron/Osborne/Clegg obsession with having to be seen to be centrist. Interested to hear people's thoughts.
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    No.

    Politics goes in cycles, always has done.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    No.

    Politics goes in cycles, always has done.
    Well in response to far right movements in the 30s we got a radical left wing labour government in the 40s.
    I hope you're right!
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    The centre ground was basically a shoe in for progressivise liberalism. Which I do think now has failed crucially in the most central aspect of politics- the war of ideas, in that it has nothing to offer the dynamic forces of western civilisation and as C.Hitchens notes '- where Liberalism fails conservatism will never miss that opportunity and right now it certainly has the opportunity and for good reason.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    No.

    Politics goes in cycles, always has done.
    Soon we are going back to Athenian democracy.
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    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    Soon we are going back to Athenian democracy.
    Make Pericles great again
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    As it says on the tin. You know, the Blair/Brown/Mandelson/Cameron/Osborne/Clegg obsession with having to be seen to be centrist. Interested to hear people's thoughts.
    Cameron won to be fair so the answer is that the center can still win definitely.

    I think the more important question though is whether these centrists can get away with not tackling some of the big issues like wage growth.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    The centre ground was basically a shoe in for progressivise liberalism. Which I do think now has failed crucially in the most central aspect of politics- the war of ideas, in that it has nothing to offer the dynamic forces of western civilisation and as C.Hitchens notes '- where Liberalism fails conservatism will never miss that opportunity and right now it certainly has the opportunity and for good reason.
    Quite a lot on the Sanders left are rightfully angry. For years they have been lectured by 'moderates' about how the left needs to compromise (abandon) its principles and move to the centre to be 'electable'.

    Well they did that with Hilary Clinton. The definition of a 'centre ground' politician and she lost to someone who was anything but centrist. Sanders unlike Clinton was deeply popular and had a warmth and likeability to him and really connected with voters. He was an ordinary person, not a corporate puppet. It became obvious that working class Americans wanted to take a sledgehammer to the economic and political system that has screwed them over yet the Democrats elected someone who represented everything that those voters hated.

    Never assume that the electorate cannot be won over or persuaded by a compelling argument. The result of this election is the fault of the centre-left. The 'Blairties', the 'Clintonites', the 'moderates' who have absolutely refused to challenge the economic system which has caused the working classes so much misery. They've screamed at those on the left like Sanders and arguably Corbyn who actually realised how frustrated the working class were.

    People like Owen Jones have been saying for years and years that if the left does not stand up for the working class then the far right will, with devastating effect. That's the sad part. The rise of Trump was so predictable and so avoidable if the left had actually listened to people's concerns.

    This short video represents the arrogance and smugness of the centre left:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHkPadFK34o
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    The history of Anglo-American politics is represented by Disraeli's attack on Peel:

    "The Right Honourable Gentleman caught the Whigs bathing and walked away with their clothes. He has left them in the full enjoyment of their liberal position, and he is himself a strict conservative of their garments."

    This, of course, is the Disraeli who 20 years later enfranchised the working man
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    In order to position yourself in the center, you need to know where the center actually is. Clinton wasn't a moderate, she was a continuation of what went before, but as time moves so does the center.

    That's not saying that the center is a fixed point, Thatcher and Atlee are famous for shifting the center, and while arguments can be won, they have to be the right arguments.

    Trump won arguments, not because he had the right answers, but because he asked the right questions. He shifted the center in the USA, just as Sanders could/would have. Clinton wasn't a centrist, she was just an establishment candidate, just like Owen Smith, so it's no wonder she didn't win
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    In order to position yourself in the center, you need to know where the center actually is. Clinton wasn't a moderate, she was a continuation of what went before, but as time moves so does the center.

    That's not saying that the center is a fixed point, Thatcher and Atlee are famous for shifting the center, and while arguments can be won, they have to be the right arguments.

    Trump won arguments, not because he had the right answers, but because he asked the right questions. He shifted the center in the USA, just as Sanders could/would have. Clinton wasn't a centrist, she was just an establishment candidate, just like Owen Smith, so it's no wonder she didn't win
    I see your point. The centre shifts.
    When Blair won in 1997 people were still happy with neoliberal, globalist policies. He shifted the centre slightly with his support for welfare on top of it.

    However the Blairites and Clintonites today still maintain that centre ground is basically Tory lite- i.e neoliberalism with a bit of welfare for the poor.
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    As a 'Blairite' I bloody hope not.
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    For years now we have said that the right won the economic arguments and the left won the social arguments.

    However with the rise of the far right, who often embrace left wing, economic protectionism, that may all be about to change.

    Marine Le Pen's economics wouldn't look out of place in the Labour Party in the 1960s.
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    Mixing ideas doesn't work. Look at health for instance a fully socialist idea like the NHS works really well on the right side private health insurance works as well but when you mix them you get Obamacare which is underfunded causing insurance premiums to go up.
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    (Original post by niteninja1)
    Mixing ideas doesn't work. Look at health for instance a fully socialist idea like the NHS works really well on the right side private health insurance works as well but when you mix them you get Obamacare which is underfunded causing insurance premiums to go up.
    The Third Way?? Blair won 3 elections and Clinton won 2 with socially left and economically right leaning ideas
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    (Original post by sahil19)
    The Third Way?? Blair won 3 elections and Clinton won 2 with socially left and economically right leaning ideas
    But that works no longer, as shown by the EU ref and Trump.

    People are fed up of globalisation which has destroyed their local communities. The lefts' failure to provide any alternative whatsoever to neoliberalism has been its downfall and allowed the likes of Trump to thrive.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    But that works no longer, as shown by the EU ref and Trump.

    People are fed up of globalisation which has destroyed their local communities. The lefts' failure to provide any alternative whatsoever to neoliberalism has been its downfall and allowed the likes of Trump to thrive.
    it annoys me because brexit and trump aren't the answer..
    also the whole 'liberal elite' thing is a total myth
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    (Original post by niteninja1)
    Mixing ideas doesn't work. Look at health for instance a fully socialist idea like the NHS works really well on the right side private health insurance works as well but when you mix them you get Obamacare which is underfunded causing insurance premiums to go up.
    You'll find that a universal healthcare system is much more efficient than a private one. The UK's healthcare system is probably one of the most centrist in that we still have private healthcare available to those who want or can afford it.

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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Quite a lot on the Sanders left are rightfully angry. For years they have been lectured by 'moderates' about how the left needs to compromise (abandon) its principles and move to the centre to be 'electable'.

    Well they did that with Hilary Clinton. The definition of a 'centre ground' politician and she lost to someone who was anything but centrist. Sanders unlike Clinton was deeply popular and had a warmth and likeability to him and really connected with voters. He was an ordinary person, not a corporate puppet. It became obvious that working class Americans wanted to take a sledgehammer to the economic and political system that has screwed them over yet the Democrats elected someone who represented everything that those voters hated.

    Never assume that the electorate cannot be won over or persuaded by a compelling argument. The result of this election is the fault of the centre-left. The 'Blairties', the 'Clintonites', the 'moderates' who have absolutely refused to challenge the economic system which has caused the working classes so much misery. They've screamed at those on the left like Sanders and arguably Corbyn who actually realised how frustrated the working class were.

    People like Owen Jones have been saying for years and years that if the left does not stand up for the working class then the far right will, with devastating effect. That's the sad part. The rise of Trump was so predictable and so avoidable if the left had actually listened to people's concerns.

    This short video represents the arrogance and smugness of the centre left:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHkPadFK34o
    Its not just economically though

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30139832

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...-jeremy-corbyn

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    (Original post by sahil19)
    it annoys me because brexit and trump aren't the answer..
    also the whole 'liberal elite' thing is a total myth
    No ones saying that they are. I voted Brexit but would never vote for trump ever. In politics there is rarely ever one right answer, however there are plenty of wrong ones.

    Hilary isn't too different from Obama, she is just a bit crap. Trump is probably too stupid to be president, looks like he's gonna be in receipt of counseling from Obama, so I think its fair to say that he's one of those wrong answers.

    The centre ground is just an attempt to not make any wrong answers by not trying to make a right one. It works until people get tired of their wages stagnating and not being able to buy a house (or healthcare in the case of the USA).

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