Previous employer holding P45 due to overpayment of wages Watch

Rae18
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I started working for the uni I graduated from on August 1st. There were a LOT of issues with the job. I was having idealisations of driving my car into a wall just to avoid work and was on the verge of a panic attack every day of my last week there. Long story short, I resigned on the 27th August due to health reasons.

As a result, I got paid for the full month and as such, I owe the uni overpaid wages which I'm perfectly happy to pay back, providing they are CORRECT. By my calculations, I owe 3 days which comes out at £134.64. However, the department I worked in are trying to claim I owe £286 because they're saying I resigned on the 22nd. I did not - I was in work on the 22nd. I was off sick from the 23rd to the 26th due to anxiety but did not intend to leave during those absences and hence I left two voicemails on my managers phone saying I would not be in due to sickness. I was off sick until Friday 26th and it was only on Saturday morning after having a serious discussion with my therapist the day before that I realised I could not face going back in on Monday. I emailed my line manager that same day (27th August) stating my anxiety as the reason for my absences and that I was hence resigning as a result of my health issues. The department are claiming to have no record of either the voicemails or the email and are hence taking my resignation from the 22nd.I sent the email from my work account which I cannot access to prove anything as it has since been purged/locked.

As a result, they are refusing to give me my P45. I have spoken to both HR and Payroll and they are saying that as soon as I pay back the overpayment, they will release my P45 but they will not give it me until I have paid them back.

My new job, which I started on 3rd October, only pays £600 a month. I'm a carer so I can only work part time. HMRC now thinks I'm working two jobs due to lack of P45 sent, and as such they have taken £120 out of me in tax, leaving me with only £484 in wages this month.

As a result, I CANNOT afford to pay the £286 (or £134 even) UNTIL my uni release my P45 and I can get my full wages. Even with my full wages, I'll struggle to pay that much in one go but I literally can't afford it at all other wise. I've told them this. I asked about a repayment option and they said they'd really prefer it in one go and would not release my P45 until full payment has been received anyway. What this means is I will lose £120 of my wages every month until I have paid my uni the overpaid wages back. I CANNOT manage on that and cannot pay the overpayment back UNTIL I get my full wages. Effectively, we're in a stalemate because they won't give me my P45 until I've paid back the overpayment, and I can't pay back the overpayment until they give me my P45. The uni either can't understand that or don't care. Losing £120 unexpectedly has REALLY ****ed me over this month as I've had to go over 8 weeks without money as it is and had to survive on my last wages from my uni that I got back in August. £900 doesn't last 8+ weeks when you have rent, petrol, and other stuff to pay. On top of that, my mother is now suffering financially as I can't afford to pay my full keep to her - she is on a very low income and I have to contribute significantly to household expenses. I'm absolutely livid that the university is keeping my P45 like this and forcing me into a serious financial difficulty over a couple hundred quid when they've received THOUSANDS off me as a student (and I don't mean just tuition fees, but all the money I spend on branded uni clothing, coffee, snacks, meals, stationery, printing, miscellanous uni stuff etc. The uni got MORE than their fair share from me).

I phoned HMRC hoping they'd have some advice but all I got told was "there's not much we can do. I'll make a note of it".

Advice? And apologies for the length. I'm pretty livid as you can probably tell.
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claireestelle
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(Original post by Rae18)
I started working for the uni I graduated from on August 1st. There were a LOT of issues with the job. I was having idealisations of driving my car into a wall just to avoid work and was on the verge of a panic attack every day of my last week there. Long story short, I resigned on the 27th August due to health reasons.

As a result, I got paid for the full month and as such, I owe the uni overpaid wages which I'm perfectly happy to pay back, providing they are CORRECT. By my calculations, I owe 3 days which comes out at £134.64. However, the department I worked in are trying to claim I owe £286 because they're saying I resigned on the 22nd. I did not - I was in work on the 22nd. I was off sick from the 23rd to the 26th due to anxiety but did not intend to leave during those absences and hence I left two voicemails on my managers phone saying I would not be in due to sickness. I was off sick until Friday 26th and it was only on Saturday morning after having a serious discussion with my therapist the day before that I realised I could not face going back in on Monday. I emailed my line manager that same day (27th August) stating my anxiety as the reason for my absences and that I was hence resigning as a result of my health issues. The department are claiming to have no record of either the voicemails or the email and are hence taking my resignation from the 22nd.I sent the email from my work account which I cannot access to prove anything as it has since been purged/locked.

As a result, they are refusing to give me my P45. I have spoken to both HR and Payroll and they are saying that as soon as I pay back the overpayment, they will release my P45 but they will not give it me until I have paid them back.

My new job, which I started on 3rd October, only pays £600 a month. I'm a carer so I can only work part time. HMRC now thinks I'm working two jobs due to lack of P45 sent, and as such they have taken £120 out of me in tax, leaving me with only £484 in wages this month.

As a result, I CANNOT afford to pay the £286 (or £134 even) UNTIL my uni release my P45 and I can get my full wages. Even with my full wages, I'll struggle to pay that much in one go but I literally can't afford it at all other wise. I've told them this. I asked about a repayment option and they said they'd really prefer it in one go and would not release my P45 until full payment has been received anyway. What this means is I will lose £120 of my wages every month until I have paid my uni the overpaid wages back. I CANNOT manage on that and cannot pay the overpayment back UNTIL I get my full wages. Effectively, we're in a stalemate because they won't give me my P45 until I've paid back the overpayment, and I can't pay back the overpayment until they give me my P45. The uni either can't understand that or don't care. Losing £120 unexpectedly has REALLY ****ed me over this month as I've had to go over 8 weeks without money as it is and had to survive on my last wages from my uni that I got back in August. £900 doesn't last 8+ weeks when you have rent, petrol, and other stuff to pay. On top of that, my mother is now suffering financially as I can't afford to pay my full keep to her - she is on a very low income and I have to contribute significantly to household expenses. I'm absolutely livid that the university is keeping my P45 like this and forcing me into a serious financial difficulty over a couple hundred quid when they've received THOUSANDS off me as a student (and I don't mean just tuition fees, but all the money I spend on branded uni clothing, coffee, snacks, meals, stationery, printing, miscellanous uni stuff etc. The uni got MORE than their fair share from me).

I phoned HMRC hoping they'd have some advice but all I got told was "there's not much we can do. I'll make a note of it".

Advice? And apologies for the length. I'm pretty livid as you can probably tell.
Will your current employer fill in a new starter checklist for you instead? (You can do those when you dont have a P45).
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Rae18
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(Original post by claireestelle)
Will your current employer fill in a new starter checklist for you instead? (You can do those when you dont have a P45).
She already has but it doesn't override a P45, all it says is you've started a new job, doesn't say if you've left your old one. I had HMRC confirm to me that without a P45, I'm essentially working two jobs as far as they're concerned so I need my P45 specifically.
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claireestelle
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(Original post by Rae18)
She already has but it doesn't override a P45, all it says is you've started a new job, doesn't say if you've left your old one. I had HMRC confirm to me that without a P45, I'm essentially working two jobs as far as they're concerned so I need my P45 specifically.
That's ridiculous, HMRC didnt need my p45 when i switched jobs. Do you have a graduate overdraft or anything like that to appease them by giving them back the overpayment?
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Rae18
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(Original post by claireestelle)
That's ridiculous, HMRC didnt need my p45 when i switched jobs. Do you have a graduate overdraft or anything like that to appease them by giving them back the overpayment?
That's odd. According to both them and my line manager, I'm working two jobs in theory and hence why I've been taxed. I don't have a graduate overdraft
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claireestelle
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(Original post by Rae18)
That's odd. According to both them and my line manager, I'm working two jobs in theory and hence why I've been taxed. I don't have a graduate overdraft
As you work part time at the moment, are you getting carers allowance and any kind of income support you could be eligible for?
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moonkatt
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(Original post by Rae18)
That's odd. According to both them and my line manager, I'm working two jobs in theory and hence why I've been taxed. I don't have a graduate overdraft
A new starter notification can be used by HMRC in lieu of them receiving the employer's and employee's part of a P45 when starting a new job as you make a declaration n the paperwork that it is your only or main job. The tax office can put you on a non cumulative tax coding so you don't get hammered on a BR coding, which can then be amended once they receive your P45.

It might be worth talking to your old employer and seeing if they'll come to an agreement with you for paying off their overpayment in instalments if you can't afford it in one go, they might refuse, but it's worth trying.
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Rae18
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(Original post by claireestelle)
As you work part time at the moment, are you getting carers allowance and any kind of income support you could be eligible for?
I'm not eligible for carer's allowance as I earn "too much", apparently. You can only earn up to a maximum of £110 a week to be eligible, if you earn more, like I do, you don't get a penny. It's ridiculous really given how much it could be costing the government to provide care for my mother if I wasn't sacrificing my own social, romantic and work life to do so, grr - but that's another story lol.

Just looked into Income Support now and I don't meet the criteria because I work 20 hours a week and to be eligible you have to work below 16 hours (along with meeting 4 other criteria as well!)
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Emma:-)
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(Original post by Rae18)
That's odd. According to both them and my line manager, I'm working two jobs in theory and hence why I've been taxed. I don't have a graduate overdraft
Cant you speak to the CAB and see what they say about it?
Id try and speak to HMRC again. I would have thought they could have still took the old one off the system themselves. It might just be me but ive found some staff more helpful than others (the unhelpful ones being the minority).
The upside is that you should get any overpaid tax back at the end of the tax year if its still not sorted by then.
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Rae18
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(Original post by Emma:-))
Cant you speak to the CAB and see what they say about it?
Id try and speak to HMRC again. I would have thought they could have still took the old one off the system themselves. It might just be me but ive found some staff more helpful than others (the unhelpful ones being the minority).
The upside is that you should get any overpaid tax back at the end of the tax year if its still not sorted by then.
Yeah I'm going to ring CAB on Monday. Only issue is, where I live, they only have morning slots. I work until 11:30 am and my nearest CAB office is about a 30 minute drive away so I wouldn't be able to get there without taking a day off. I can't take any annual leave currently and I don't get sick pay so, frustratingly, to see a CAB advisor I'd have to lose a day's wages. The whole situation is ****ed, if you'll excuse my language.
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Reality Check
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You've received some good advice about this. I would be inclined to come to an agreement about the overpayment as quickly as possible, as resolving that and getting the P45 is probably the quickest and easiest way to resolve this. Have you spoken to someone higher up than just payroll about this extra day's work thing? I doesn't sound terribly complicated to come to an agreement, so long as you're talking to the right people at the University.
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Emma:-)
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(Original post by Rae18)
Yeah I'm going to ring CAB on Monday. Only issue is, where I live, they only have morning slots. I work until 11:30 am and my nearest CAB office is about a 30 minute drive away so I wouldn't be able to get there without taking a day off. I can't take any annual leave currently and I don't get sick pay so, frustratingly, to see a CAB advisor I'd have to lose a day's wages. The whole situation is ****ed, if you'll excuse my language.
Id also still phone hmrc again and see if you can get anywhere with it.
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Rae18
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(Original post by Reality Check)
You've received some good advice about this. I would be inclined to come to an agreement about the overpayment as quickly as possible, as resolving that and getting the P45 is probably the quickest and easiest way to resolve this. Have you spoken to someone higher up than just payroll about this extra day's work thing? I doesn't sound terribly complicated to come to an agreement, so long as you're talking to the right people at the University.
I've honestly tried, they're just not budging. The closest I've gotten to sorting it is by taking it to the payroll manager who, fair play to her, has been extremely understanding and is currently trying to see if she can get it reduced to the £134 I mentioned by counting the 23rd-26th as sick days (which they damn well were. I'm so angry that the department is claiming to have not received 3 separate messages telling them I was sick/resigning due to sickness)

And I agree it shouldn't be too complicated, it's just that the uni are insisting on keeping my P45. I might try phoning HMRC again because I wasn't particularly satisfied with the previous guy I got. He didn't seem at all bothered about trying to help.
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Rae18
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(Original post by moonkatt)
A new starter notification can be used by HMRC in lieu of them receiving the employer's and employee's part of a P45 when starting a new job as you make a declaration n the paperwork that it is your only or main job. The tax office can put you on a non cumulative tax coding so you don't get hammered on a BR coding, which can then be amended once they receive your P45.
Can they?! That's bloody weird because I filled in a P46/New Starter and stated it was my only job so why are HMRC taxing me then?! They confirmed to me on the phone that they're taking it as if I'm working two jobs because of no P45...? So is this the fault of HMRC then?
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Emma:-)
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(Original post by Rae18)
I've honestly tried, they're just not budging. The closest I've gotten to sorting it is by taking it to the payroll manager who, fair play to her, has been extremely understanding and is currently trying to see if she can get it reduced to the £134 I mentioned by counting the 23rd-26th as sick days (which they damn well were. I'm so angry that the department is claiming to have not received 3 separate messages telling them I was sick/resigning due to sickness)

And I agree it shouldn't be too complicated, it's just that the uni are insisting on keeping my P45. I might try phoning HMRC again because I wasn't particularly satisfied with the previous guy I got. He didn't seem at all bothered about trying to help.
Id deffo try this.
Ive had it before where the odd person ive dealt with hasnt seemed particularly great. Then ive had the others where nothings been too much trouble and they have been great. And trust me ive had to phone a lot of times (long story).
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Rae18
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Yeah I will give them another ring. I'm sure there must be something they can do.
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moonkatt
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(Original post by Rae18)
Can they?! That's bloody weird because I filled in a P46/New Starter and stated it was my only job so why are HMRC taxing me then?! They confirmed to me on the phone that they're taking it as if I'm working two jobs because of no P45...? So is this the fault of HMRC then?
If you ticked statement B on your new starter checklist for "this is my only job, but since 6th April 2016 I have had another job...." then you should be on the tax coding 1100L week 1/month 1.

This paperwork then counts as notification to the HMRC from your new employer that you've started employment with them and it's your main job.

Once HMRC receive your P45 and you give your copy in to your new employer your tax coding should be amended onto whatever it was before, if it's done within this year and you're on a cumulative coding you'll get back any overpayment of tax as an adjustment in your wages.
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Rae18
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(Original post by moonkatt)
If you ticked statement B on your new starter checklist for "this is my only job, but since 6th April 2016 I have had another job...." then you should be on the tax coding 1100L week 1/month 1.
Yep this is what I did. My tax code up until my current job was 1100L. Now its T01.

Once HMRC receive your P45 and you give your copy in to your new employer your tax coding should be amended onto whatever it was before, if it's done within this year and you're on a cumulative coding you'll get back any overpayment of tax as an adjustment in your wages.
which means I'll continue being taxed at the current rate of £120 a month until my uni hands over my P45?
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moonkatt
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(Original post by Rae18)
Yep this is what I did. My tax code up until my current job was 1100L. Now its T01.
Check your current employer has the correct information form your starter checklist, once that's done there's nothing else with regards to you tax coding that can be done until your old employer issues a P45 with your YTD earnings and tax.
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Reality Check
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I'd also suggest that it is you who is in a position of power in your negotiations with the University regarding the overpayment. In the grand scheme of things (for them), a £286 overpayment is small change, and it's certainly not an amount for which it would be worth starting any sort of legal proceedings to collect. I think they would take a pragmatic stand on this, and be willing to accept any sensible offer of repayment you were willing to make, as that is the easier and cheapest way for them to get their money back. As part of the settlement, you can insist that your P45 is released before you start repayments. If you stand your ground with it I imagine they will capitulate, again because it's simply easier in the end for them to do so.
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