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sloaney87
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I see no point in them, all they do is attract pedophiles, and waste alot of everyones time. Instead of wasting so much money on internet police, it would be so much easier to completely ban them. The concept of 10 year oldsbeing able to speak to complete strangers is disturbing.
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fishpaste
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How do you propose they be banned, technologically speaking?
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Dajo123
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(Original post by sloaney87)
The concept of 10 year oldsbeing able to speak to complete strangers is disturbing.
They can also do this on the way home from school.
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Llamas
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(Original post by sloaney87)
I see no point in them, all they do is attract pedophiles, and waste alot of everyones time. Instead of wasting so much money on internet police, it would be so much easier to completely ban them. The concept of 10 year oldsbeing able to speak to complete strangers is disturbing.
Err, hardly. Perhaps 1 in 100,000 users of IRC are paedophiles. Not to mention that it's be impossible to ban them, internet police do a lot more than sit in chat rooms looking for criminals. They're busy tracking the kiddie porn websites aswell.

A 10 year old can only use chat rooms if the parent lets them on the computer without any kind of oversight whatsoever.
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Muse
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(Original post by Llamas)
Err, hardly. Perhaps 1 in 100,000 users of IRC are paedophiles.
where did you get that figure from? and what about users that are not telling the truth about their identity/gender/age? 1 in 2?

(Original post by Llamas)
Not to mention that it's be impossible to ban them
children would be unlikely IMO to go out of their way to find an 'underground' chatroom if all the main providers banned their use.

(Original post by Llamas)
internet police do a lot more than sit in chat rooms looking for criminals. They're busy tracking the kiddie porn websites aswell.
and what proportion of police funding goes on 'internet police'?

(Original post by Llamas)
A 10 year old can only use chat rooms if the parent lets them on the computer without any kind of oversight whatsoever.
i agree, 90% of it should be down to parental control, not necessarily just banning the chatrooms.
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Llamas
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(Original post by timeofyourlife)
where did you get that figure from? and what about users that are not telling the truth about their identity/gender/age? 1 in 2?

children would be unlikely IMO to go out of their way to find an 'underground' chatroom if all the main providers banned their use.

and what proportion of police funding goes on 'internet police'?

i agree, 90% of it should be down to parental control, not necessarily just banning the chatrooms.
It's an abitrary figure I pulled out of thin air, and given the ridiculous premise of this thread I'm not going to waste my time trying to find any genuine figures. I doubt there would be any anyway. I suspect a huge number of people have lied about one thing or another on the internet, but that doesn't make them paedophiles.

I don't think you quite understand the technology behind chat rooms. You couldn't simply ban them. There would be no "underground chat rooms" because even if our government banned hosting or visiting them other countries wouldn't, millions of legitimate chat rooms would remain free for all to visit.

I would suspect that a tiny proportion of police funding would go on 'internet police.' From what I've read it's a fairly small team of experts working to take down paedophile networks. It'd take a lot more funding to ban chat rooms, that's for sure.

If 90% of it's down to parental control, then the other 10% should be down to teaching the child not to be completely stupid and meet strangers or give out personal details on the internet.
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NDGAARONDI
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(Original post by sloaney87)
I see no point in them, all they do is attract pedophiles, and waste alot of everyones time. Instead of wasting so much money on internet police, it would be so much easier to completely ban them. The concept of 10 year oldsbeing able to speak to complete strangers is disturbing.
10 year olds can do that on the street. So you could impose curfew orders on that note. Also there are plenty of chatrooms that are used legitimately. Incidently, the University of London uses them to teach students on their external program for distant students I believe.
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mobbdeeprob
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(Original post by sloaney87)
I see no point in them, all they do is attract pedophiles, and waste alot of everyones time. Instead of wasting so much money on internet police, it would be so much easier to completely ban them. The concept of 10 year oldsbeing able to speak to complete strangers is disturbing.
This actually sounds pretty sensible to me.

Chatrooms are more trouble than they are worth - their instantaneous, anonymous nature coupled with the fact that people often talk to those that they don't know makes them a veritable pitfall.

MSN Messenger is less dangerous, as people usually talk to close acquaintances on here, or those with whom they have built a certain trust. This isn't the case with chatrooms.

I'm sure there are ways of banning chatrooms, if China can filter 98% of the internet superhighway from reaching their citizens, then where there is a will, there's a way.

I briefly stumbled upon Yahoo chat, but was horrified by what went on in there. I never once used MSN chat - but in shutting it down, Microsoft acknowledged that it was a cesspit for paedophiles and perverts.

Close the chatrooms.
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fishpaste
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(Original post by mobbdeeprob)
This actually sounds pretty sensible to me.

Chatrooms are more trouble than they are worth - their instantaneous, anonymous nature coupled with the fact that people often talk to those that they don't know makes them a veritable pitfall.

MSN Messenger is less dangerous, as people usually talk to close acquaintances on here, or those with whom they have built a certain trust. This isn't the case with chatrooms.

I'm sure there are ways of banning chatrooms, if China can filter 98% of the internet superhighway from reaching their citizens, then where there is a will, there's a way.

I briefly stumbled upon Yahoo chat, but was horrified by what went on in there. I never once used MSN chat - but in shutting it down, Microsoft acknowledged that it was a cesspit for paedophiles and perverts.

Close the chatrooms.
AFAIK China has a policy where they choose websites that can be accessed and everything else is blocked. If the internet is to be remotely free that wouldn't work anywhere else. Also, there's still nothing in China to stop you getting an alternate internet connection. SOmebody out in the middle of the country away from the officials could surely get themselves a nice satellite subscription and access whatever the hell they want. And it really wouldn't be costly to do. Talking hundreds of dollars, nothing more.

And that's the point, the internet just is, nothing to stop me getting my own backbone, moving to some island, and running a bunch of chatrooms for anybody to use. How will a government stop me then?
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Dajo123
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(Original post by mobbdeeprob)
I'm sure there are ways of banning chatrooms, if China can filter 98% of the internet superhighway from reaching their citizens, then where there is a will, there's a way.
In China you have to have a licence to access the Internet, (you also have to have a licence to practice religion). China is one big murderous nanny state, they exert control over Internet usage with military force, just like everything else.

Surely we shouldnt be going down this road???
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mobbdeeprob
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(Original post by Dajo123)
In China you have to have a licence to access the Internet, (you also have to have a licence to practice religion). China is one big murderous nanny state, they exert control over Internet usage with military force, just like everything else.

Surely we shouldnt be going down this road???
I'm not suggesting that we should clamp down on civil liberties to anything like the extent of The People's Republic. I just think that China, as a model, demonstrates that it is possible to block (or at least hinder) access to certain material.

Call me idealist, but I believe that if the major ISPs in this country were made to block the major chat sites - we would see less paedophile activity, less abductions, less murders et cetera. A lot of this activity goes unreported, Lord knows how many children end up at the hands of chatroom paedophiles every year.
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fishpaste
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(Original post by mobbdeeprob)
Call me idealist, but I believe that if the major ISPs in this country were made to block the major chat sites - we would see less paedophile activity, less abductions, less murders et cetera. A lot of this activity goes unreported, Lord knows how many children end up at the hands of chatroom paedophiles every year.
But new sites can so easily spring up :/
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Dajo123
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(Original post by mobbdeeprob)
Call me idealist, but I believe that if the major ISPs in this country were made to block the major chat sites - we would see less paedophile activity, less abductions, less murders et cetera. A lot of this activity goes unreported, Lord knows how many children end up at the hands of chatroom paedophiles every year.

Maybe the banning should not fall on the ISP's heads but the parents?
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Llamas
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(Original post by mobbdeeprob)
I'm not suggesting that we should clamp down on civil liberties to anything like the extent of The People's Republic. I just think that China, as a model, demonstrates that it is possible to block (or at least hinder) access to certain material.

Call me idealist, but I believe that if the major ISPs in this country were made to block the major chat sites - we would see less paedophile activity, less abductions, less murders et cetera. A lot of this activity goes unreported, Lord knows how many children end up at the hands of chatroom paedophiles every year.
Honestly, you must live in a world of fear. The majority of child abuse is conducted by someone either in the child's family or is a close friend of the family. Abuse as a result of internet grooming is in the minority, and banning chat rooms would just make it even harder to track.

I'm interested to hear why you think chat rooms cause murders though?
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Dajo123
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(Original post by Llamas)
Honestly, you must live in a world of fear. The majority of child abuse is conducted by someone either in the child's family or is a close friend of the family. Abuse as a result of internet grooming is in the minority, and banning chat rooms would just make it even harder to track.
Well put!!

(Original post by mobbdeeprob)
call me idealist, but I believe that if the major ISPs in this country were made to block the major chat sites - we would see less paedophile activity, less abductions, less murders et cetera. A lot of this activity goes unreported, Lord knows how many children end up at the hands of chatroom paedophiles every year.

The words "walnut" and "sledge hammer" come to mind.
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mobbdeeprob
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(Original post by Llamas)
Honestly, you must live in a world of fear. The majority of child abuse is conducted by someone either in the child's family or is a close friend of the family. Abuse as a result of internet grooming is in the minority, and banning chat rooms would just make it even harder to track.

I'm interested to hear why you think chat rooms cause murders though?
The recent case of a teenage boy persuading another teenage boy to kill him (under the pretence of a secret service agent) took place over an internet chatroom. Children have been lured to the houses of chatroom paedophiles, molested and then murdered.
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Dajo123
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(Original post by mobbdeeprob)
The recent case of a teenage boy persuading another teenage boy to kill him (under the pretence of a secret service agent) took place over an internet chatroom. Children have been lured to the houses of chatroom paedophiles, molested and then murdered.
If chatrooms did'nt exist then these sickos would still find ways to molest children. Banning chat rooms only moves the problem elsewhere.
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mobbdeeprob
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(Original post by fishpaste)
But new sites can so easily spring up :/
The big players in this thing are the chatrooms hosted by the big providers e.g. Yahoo and, formerly, MSN.

If you are were an unwitting child, would you flit around the web for abstract sites, run and maintained by paedophiles? No, you would go on Yahoo or MSN - trusting that a chatroom operated by a major conglomerate would afford you safety and because this is the obvious place to go to.
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Dajo123
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(Original post by mobbdeeprob)
If you are were an unwitting child, would you flit around the web for abstract sites, run and maintained by paedophiles? No, you would go on Yahoo or MSN - trusting that a chatroom operated by a major conglomerate would afford you safety and because this is the obvious place to go to.
Er no, if you're an unwitting child you go anywhere your friends mention.
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Llamas
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(Original post by mobbdeeprob)
The big players in this thing are the chatrooms hosted by the big providers e.g. Yahoo and, formerly, MSN.

If you are were an unwitting child, would you flit around the web for abstract sites, run and maintained by paedophiles? No, you would go on Yahoo or MSN - trusting that a chatroom operated by a major conglomerate would afford you safety and because this is the obvious place to go to.
When I was 11 I knew how to use mIRC, how're you going to stop that?

Seriously, educating children to be careful is much easier, and much more effective.
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