"Libertarianism is a dangerous and selfish ideology". What are your views?

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Dajo123
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#61
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#61
(Original post by Jonatan)
Having said this I dont know that much about gun-registration and ownership in the US. All I know is that it is more lenient than over here.
Indeed, in America you can buy handguns and bullets as you shop for crisps and drinks in the supermarket.
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parvati
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#62
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#62
(Original post by Dajo123)
Would they hold true to this even if their emergency room bill came to £500,000? i think not. This would render them poor, and in their world this means fuc*ed. Libertarians sound like ideologists, all mouth no action.
Exactly. You would find no poor person a libertarian. Since the majority of the population in the world is poor, that makes libertarians a minority, albeit a rich one doing exactly what they wish while everyone else suffers. Hold on, guess that sounds remarkably like the world we live in
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Llamas
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#63
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#63
Hey guys, letting people have guns is a great idea!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...uns-usat_x.htm

States with high crime see more guns stolen
By Toni Locy, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — Guns are more likely to be stolen in states with high crime rates, large numbers of gun owners and where laws are lacking on safe storage of firearms, according to a study released Wednesday.
The report by the Americans for Gun Safety Foundation says nearly 1.7 million firearms were reported to police as stolen from January 1993 through August 2002. The number of guns stolen per year has declined, from 221,322 reported in 1993 to 138,035 in 2001, the report says.

The study says the decline in gun thefts coincides with a simultaneous drop in crime in the USA and an increase in use of gun locks and storage devices.

The group, which advocates stronger gun-storage laws, relied on numbers collected by the FBI. The numbers show that nearly 688,000 stolen firearms were recovered during the 10-year period, leaving more than 1 million missing and most likely fueling the black market for criminals.

Nearly 10% of state prison inmates incarcerated on gun crimes say the weapons they used were stolen.
You know, because most people are oh so responsible!

Libertarianism wouldn't force safe gun storage, because, you know - it's personal responsibility dude, what right does the government have to tell me how to store my guns. :rolleyes:
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Chrism
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#64
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#64
(Original post by Jonatan)
I dont think the state should be able to prohibit the people from having arms, but that doesnt mean you have to abolish all sorts of restrictions and license requirements.
This is pretty much my opinion as well.
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Weejimmie
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#65
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#65
Gun possession and death rates from guns are complicated matters. In Switzerland, every house has an automatic rifle stored in it and all the men are trained to use them, yet Switzerland has a very low murder rate from firearms compared with Britain and the USA.
One problem. as someone pointed out, is that where it is illegal to own firearms then this disarms the honest and arms the criminal. However, a noncriminal is likely to be inhibited against using a gun where the crinimal would have no compunction in doing so, so perhaps we are safer if criminals expect us to be unarmed and harmless. Furthermore, there are probably higher death rates from carelessness, accidents and common human stupidity than from deliberate attempts to kill where guns are easily available.
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mcspence
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#66
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#66
(Original post by Dajo123)
Indeed, in America you can buy handguns and bullets as you shop for crisps and drinks in the supermarket.
Ever Been to the US? not that it is hard to get a gun... but just can't go and buy one... there is a seven day waiting period and back ground check.... the gun is the registered with the manufacteror... if the gun is found in a crime the manufacteror then tells the police who bought it...
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mcspence
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#67
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#67
in the US, areas that have Concealed Carry laws... have lower crime rates. less likely to mug someone if they might be carrying a 45..... but the problem with all stats... is that it is the criminals who got their guns illegally who are committing crimes.
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Dajo123
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#68
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#68
(Original post by mcspence)
Ever Been to the US? not that it is hard to get a gun... but just can't go and buy one... there is a seven day waiting period and back ground check.... the gun is the registered with the manufacteror... if the gun is found in a crime the manufacteror then tells the police who bought it...
This is not the procedure in all US states, my friend.
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mcspence
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#69
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#69
it is, federal brady laws. now a shotgun.... you can get that while shopping for crisps... the thing is that most people have no clue how it works. The government does not regulate the registration. The manufacterors do it and will provide information ONLY when a specific serial number is provided. States in turn regulate licensing requirements and decide if they will offer concealed hand gun permit.
But the waiting period is a FEDERAL law... that means it is national for you UK'ers... also you cannot purchase ANY weapon if you are an ex convict or have a mental illness.
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Dajo123
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#70
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#70
(Original post by mcspence)
it is, federal brady laws. now a shotgun.... you can get that while shopping for crisps... the thing is that most people have no clue how it works.
Just as i said
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mcspence
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#71
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#71
I think that Americans are widely mis understood on our Gun position. First off, we do not fight to keep our hunting rifles. The underlying concept is that we got our freedom through revolution and blood. and the framers of the constitution knew that if the people didn'thave the ability to defend themselves, well lets just say absolute power corrupts absolutely. The basis is not so that we can defend ourselves from burglars, a 12 gauge shotgun could do that.... the premis is to protect us from our own government... morbid as that sounds. It is to keep the politicians honest and not sell us out to UN. Now that might not make sense.... but lets face it the Empire was never big on the colonies being able to fight back and the queen wasn't to comfortable with the common man having a vote much less a gun. History does shape the way we see things now.
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mcspence
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#72
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#72
I am beginning not to like you, kidding
the previous post was about hand guns and crisps.... those are potato chips i assume....
a hand gun and a shot gun are two entirely different things...
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Dajo123
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#73
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#73
(Original post by mcspence)
the premis is to protect us from our own government... morbid as that sounds. It is to keep the politicians honest and not sell us out to UN.
:rolleyes: You would need a VEERRRY big gun for that level of protection.
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Dajo123
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#74
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#74
(Original post by mcspence)
I am beginning not to like you, kidding
the previous post was about hand guns and crisps.... those are potato chips i assume....
a hand gun and a shot gun are two entirely different things...
I know i was winding you up
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mcspence
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#75
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#75
i am kinda dissapointed that UKers didn't get some kinda reaction.... i must be losing it...
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mcspence
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#76
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#76
i guess that i fall more under the liberaterian side..... yes i feel people should help and pay taxes.... liberaterian is not anarchy, i just think that most day to day decissions should be left to the individual. keep in mind that these large companies and evil tyrant CEOS also contribute billions of dollars each year to fund community programs and send aid where it is needed. Cokacola for example provides all the bottled water the redcross can take...along with anhieser busch at little or no cost. Microsoft Corp. bank roll the better part of washington states educational system. I get annoyed when a bunch of lazy people who are just content to blame the successfull people for all their problems get up and start *****ing cause getting an education is soooo hard... .which is another thing, ANYbody in the us can get a college education if they are willing to put the effort... there are soooo many loans and grants that are there for the taking if you will jsut get off your butt.
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Dajo123
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#77
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#77
(Original post by mcspence)
i am kinda dissapointed that UKers didn't get some kinda reaction.... i must be losing it...
I realised this, hence my piss take reaction
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mcspence
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#78
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#78
well, at least i accomplished something here....
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Jonatan
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#79
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#79
(Original post by Dajo123)
:rolleyes: You would need a VEERRRY big gun for that level of protection.
But Stallone can do it, then so can I, no ?
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Howard
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#80
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#80
[QUOTE=carldaman]I wholly agree with the idea that libertarianism is little more than the pursuit of one's own goals without a care for the needs of others. For instance, a true libertarian wouls consider tax to be theft. A libertarian friend of mine illustrated it with this story.

QUOTE]

I'm a libertarian as far as it is possible to be one and still wish to remain a member of society.

I wouldn't see taxation as "theft" but I certainly regard it as an act of confiscating one persons money and redistributing it to someone the government thinks is more worthy. With some exceptions I consider that an evil thing.

Libertarians believe in small, non interfering, non nannying governments who keep their noses out of private individuals affairs and trust those individuals will make wiser decisions about how they spend their money than they as a government can do.

Now't wrong with that.
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