Sunni sects of islam Watch

mnak
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hi. I want Islam to be united. And all theses sects are kind of divided all of us up so I just want to know everything (as much as people know) about all of the sects.
for this thread I just want to focus on the Sunni beliefs because it is the majority so I will talk about Shia belief later.
this is my knowledge of Islam Sunni sect.
I know there are 4 madhabs written by 4 pious imams, they all made mistake here and there. The sects are hanafi, maliki, shafi, hambali. they all respect and interact with one another and believe there is nothing wrong with following any of the other madhabs. Hadith wise they follow the same hadith sahi hadith being most authenic and followed on by other hadith. Sahih hadith can tell which parts of each madhab is right and wrong.
Now things like salafi, sufi, wahabi, berelvi, deobandi- I have no clue what is it is about. my knowledge from these are that they may follow a madhab, they may follow the authentic hadith e.g sahih bukhari and one which follow after etc. now I don't now why they have created different sects and why they all call each other kafir.
I want to know which sect teaching traces back to the prophet (pbuh), like for example let say for there is a deobandi imam whos teachers, teachers, teachers etc. traces back to the prophet or one of the sahabs (same thing). is there any sects which have an imam like this. if so can you say who he is.
which sects are associated with isis, Taliban, other terrorist group. I have met diobandis and they say in a darul uloom institution in bury uk and they say they follow the hanafi madhab. the thing which confuses me is why they call them self deobandis. why not hanafi. has anybody hear of darul uloom burry in uk by any chance. well I just want to know every one elses knowledge in sunni sects. jazak allah if you can be respectful of others
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hezzlington
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sounds complicated.
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habeas.corpus
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Can't understand anything you have written tbh...
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SoulfulTwist
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There are many wisdoms behind the 4 sunni sects of Islam. With regards to your post, will reply properly tomorrow. Otherwise give me a nudge.
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SoulfulTwist
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With regards to the 4 sects, one of the wisdoms is that no sunnah of the Prophet is being left out. During different stages of His life, the Prophet did different things for example raising hands in salaah/namaz/prayer. This was something done at the beginning and thereafter not done. If all were to follow the sunnah of raising the hands, then the sunnah of nor raising the hands would be left out.

Now the question will arise that why then do we not do both?
Answer... this would lead to confusion as then the question would occur as to when exactly in our life should the hands be raised etc. Also, each sect follows what they believe to be the most correct and authentic. However, in no way does this mean that the other sects are wrong. They are all correct as are following the ways of the prophet.

Do note that I am only explaining one benefit. There are many other countless wisdoms behind this.
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gr8wizard10
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sects = haram
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SoulfulTwist
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You are incorrect in saying that saheeh hadith will tell which part of the madhab is wrong. This is not the correct measure to define correct/wrongness.
The authenticity of each hadith are determined by a number of factors. If you are familiar with arabic terminology you will understand for example is the hadith marfoo' or maqtoo' muttasil or munfasil. Who are the narrators and what exactly is the chain of narration etc
Furher more, if you look in detail at all the principal rules of each madhab you will come to realise that they are all based on sahih hadeeth.
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SoulfulTwist
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All of these four sects, should ideally and do have an imam whose chain of narrations goes back to the Prophet.
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SoulfulTwist
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From these 4 sects none in my knowledge are associated to isis etc
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SoulfulTwist
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Explaining why some hanafi refer to themselves as deobandis.
During the time of he Prophet everyone who believed were called Muslim/Mu'min.
When the first fitnah (corruption? Not sure if thats the word in English) came about, then those who were on the right were referred to as 'ahle sunnah wal jama'ah' to differentiate from the others.
When there became many claimers of being from ahle sunnah wal jama'ah then within fiqh 4 groups were on the right (this is where the 4 sects came about).
Now from amongst them, whoever is on moderation is counted as correct. This would differ according to location. So for example, in India Hanafi was on moderation. To recognise them they were also called deobandis.
However, deobandis is a loose term which can be applied to all who are on moderation.
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SoulfulTwist
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To my knowledge I do know that the teaching of the deobandis (as in the first madrasah for hadith in India) can be traced back from teacher to teacher all the way to the imam, and from the imam, the hadith etc used for the rulings of the sect, all the way to the sahaba and the Prophet
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mnak
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(Original post by starfab)
You are incorrect in saying that saheeh hadith will tell which part of the madhab is wrong. This is not the correct measure to define correct/wrongness.
The authenticity of each hadith are determined by a number of factors. If you are familiar with arabic terminology you will understand for example is the hadith marfoo' or maqtoo' muttasil or munfasil. Who are the narrators and what exactly is the chain of narration etc
Furher more, if you look in detail at all the principal rules of each madhab you will come to realise that they are all based on sahih hadeeth.
are you sure because I heard someone say that imam shafi says that if you touch a women your wudhu brakes but imam hanafi says that your wudhu breaks if you sexually touched someone (intercourse). and in bukhari I heard that the prophet kissed his wife and started salah straight away without preforming wudhu.

btw this might all be false- I heard from dr zakir naik and I got confused. btw I don't trust him a lot but he sometimes may tell the truth so I just wanted to know your view point on this. thanks
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SoulfulTwist
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(Original post by mnak)
are you sure because I heard someone say that imam shafi says that if you touch a women your wudhu brakes but imam hanafi says that your wudhu breaks if you sexually touched someone (intercourse). and in bukhari I heard that the prophet kissed his wife and started salah straight away without preforming wudhu.

btw this might all be false- I heard from dr zakir naik and I got confused. btw I don't trust him a lot but he sometimes may tell the truth so I just wanted to know your view point on this. thanks
Imam shafi'ee does say that on touching a non-mahram woman wudhu breaks.
Whereas Imam Abu Hanifah says that no, wudhu does not break except when sexually touch (intercourse)
Both of these Imams have derived their masalah/rule from authentic ahadith. So, they are both correct.
This may seem confusing that how can it be correct when they are both contradictory..
You have to understand that at the time of the prophet if any question arised with regards to a ruling one would refer to the prophet. After the demise of the prophet, one would refer to his teachings/hadith.
Islam has been made easy in this sense that the prophet has said "ikhtilaafu ummati rahmatun" the differences of my ummah is a blessing.
Both of these Imams according to their knowledge acted upon what they thought to be more correct. This is known as doing qiyaas and is a part of deen.
(It is a lot more in depth than this. This is me trying to simplicate things to explain to any layman.)
For example, once the prophet said to the shahabah, do not pray asr until you reach kufa (if I am remembering correctly)
Some of the companions left late for kufa and would not be able to reach their on time before asr time ended. In this group a difference arised. One part of the group said that the prophets instruction was so that we leave early and do not waste time on the way, so we should read asr now..and they did. The other part said no, prophet said not to pray until we reach kufa and so prayed when they reached there even though the time had ended. When the prophet was informed he said both were correct as they acted on my teachings.
The reason for following only one of the four Imams is to avoid people cherry picking what to follow as this will then be following ones nafs and desires and will not be following the deen. The four imams had knowledge in every area of thedeen for example tafseer of the quran (explanation of the quran), ahadith of he prophet, seerah of the prophet etc. And they were closer to the time of the prophet too.

Personally, I'm not a fan of dr. Zakir naik. My reason for this is because he didnt learn from one of the aalim of deen instead he learnt from scholars. Therefore he does not have a sanad (chain of narrations etc) going all theway back to the prophet, like an aalim would do.

I hope this makes sense to you. It is a lot more intricate than this though.
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mnak
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(Original post by starfab)
Imam shafi'ee does say that on touching a non-mahram woman wudhu breaks.
Whereas Imam Abu Hanifah says that no, wudhu does not break except when sexually touch (intercourse)
Both of these Imams have derived their masalah/rule from authentic ahadith. So, they are both correct.
This may seem confusing that how can it be correct when they are both contradictory..
You have to understand that at the time of the prophet if any question arised with regards to a ruling one would refer to the prophet. After the demise of the prophet, one would refer to his teachings/hadith.
Islam has been made easy in this sense that the prophet has said "ikhtilaafu ummati rahmatun" the differences of my ummah is a blessing.
Both of these Imams according to their knowledge acted upon what they thought to be more correct. This is known as doing qiyaas and is a part of deen.
(It is a lot more in depth than this. This is me trying to simplicate things to explain to any layman.)
For example, once the prophet said to the shahabah, do not pray asr until you reach kufa (if I am remembering correctly)
Some of the companions left late for kufa and would not be able to reach their on time before asr time ended. In this group a difference arised. One part of the group said that the prophets instruction was so that we leave early and do not waste time on the way, so we should read asr now..and they did. The other part said no, prophet said not to pray until we reach kufa and so prayed when they reached there even though the time had ended. When the prophet was informed he said both were correct as they acted on my teachings.
The reason for following only one of the four Imams is to avoid people cherry picking what to follow as this will then be following ones nafs and desires and will not be following the deen. The four imams had knowledge in every area of thedeen for example tafseer of the quran (explanation of the quran), ahadith of he prophet, seerah of the prophet etc. And they were closer to the time of the prophet too.

Personally, I'm not a fan of dr. Zakir naik. My reason for this is because he didnt learn from one of the aalim of deen instead he learnt from scholars. Therefore he does not have a sanad (chain of narrations etc) going all theway back to the prophet, like an aalim would do.

I hope this makes sense to you. It is a lot more intricate than this though.
thanks. btw while we are the not of the four madhabs, is it true that if a person leaves the deen would be executed under sharia law. I heard that all four madhabs agree with that. also did any of the imams make mistakes. thanks. p.s you know a lot about islam, masha allah
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SoulfulTwist
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(Original post by mnak)
thanks. btw while we are the not of the four madhabs, is it true that if a person leaves the deen would be executed under sharia law. I heard that all four madhabs agree with that. also did any of the imams make mistakes. thanks. p.s you know a lot about islam, masha allah
I am not 100% sure about the Sharia law thing so will check this up, or ask a reliable person.
What do you mean by "while we are not of the four madhabs" bit?

Jazakallah. It is a passionate subject to me.
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username2052983
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(Original post by mnak)
hi. I want Islam to be united. And all theses sects are kind of divided all of us up so I just want to know everything (as much as people know) about all of the sects.
for this thread I just want to focus on the Sunni beliefs because it is the majority so I will talk about Shia belief later.
this is my knowledge of Islam Sunni sect.
I know there are 4 madhabs written by 4 pious imams, they all made mistake here and there. The sects are hanafi, maliki, shafi, hambali. they all respect and interact with one another and believe there is nothing wrong with following any of the other madhabs. Hadith wise they follow the same hadith sahi hadith being most authenic and followed on by other hadith. Sahih hadith can tell which parts of each madhab is right and wrong.
Now things like salafi, sufi, wahabi, berelvi, deobandi- I have no clue what is it is about. my knowledge from these are that they may follow a madhab, they may follow the authentic hadith e.g sahih bukhari and one which follow after etc. now I don't now why they have created different sects and why they all call each other kafir.
I want to know which sect teaching traces back to the prophet (pbuh), like for example let say for there is a deobandi imam whos teachers, teachers, teachers etc. traces back to the prophet or one of the sahabs (same thing). is there any sects which have an imam like this. if so can you say who he is.
which sects are associated with isis, Taliban, other terrorist group. I have met diobandis and they say in a darul uloom institution in bury uk and they say they follow the hanafi madhab. the thing which confuses me is why they call them self deobandis. why not hanafi. has anybody hear of darul uloom burry in uk by any chance. well I just want to know every one elses knowledge in sunni sects. jazak allah if you can be respectful of others
Deobandis and Barelvis both follow the hanafi school of thought but have a few differences- Deobandis do not celebrate Mawlid and Barelvis do (thats the only difference I know). Darul Uloom Bury is well known because of the founders and teachers who are esteemed shyookh whoh have studied in Deoband, India (If I am not mistaken). By the way,No sect is associated with extremist groups- they make their Islam up.
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mnak
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(Original post by starfab)
I am not 100% sure about the Sharia law thing so will check this up, or ask a reliable person.
What do you mean by "while we are not of the four madhabs" bit?

Jazakallah. It is a passionate subject to me.
sorry I meant to say that "while we are on the topic of the 4 madhabs"- I don't know how it went to that
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SoulfulTwist
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(Original post by mnak)
sorry I meant to say that "while we are on the topic of the 4 madhabs"- I don't know how it went to that
No problem. It happens to us all.
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SoulfulTwist
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(Original post by mnak)
thanks. btw while we are the not of the four madhabs, is it true that if a person leaves the deen would be executed under sharia law. I heard that all four madhabs agree with that. also did any of the imams make mistakes.
With regards to your question, the general ruling is that yes, under sharia law he would be executed.
Once a pious shaykh/scholar saw a non-believer and took pride in his own Islam. Due to his closeness to God/Allah, Allah decided to test him, and took away his faith (meaning he left the fold of Islam). Before this he was very well learnt in the field of Islam, however now the only thing he could remember about Islam was the either the verse/hadith about killing one who apostates. His disciples became very upset and there was great unrest amongst the Muslim communities. After some years/time the scholar was forgiven by Allah and he returned to the fold of Islam.
^^although this story is with regard sto something else, we still see that he wasn't executed.

One who apostates is also given a chance to repent. He is not just executed like that. He is given some time. And not anyone or everyone is free to carry out the execution either. He is still to be treated with care. Others are not allowed to defame such a person.

Generally speaking, one who apostates spreads hatred against Islam and gives many misinterpretations, taking other Muslims away with him/her. Instead of allowing those who follow in peace, he/she may give unjust propaganda against Islam.
One who has never accepted Islam in the first place, is free to follow his/her religion. However, after accepting the truth to leave it is rejecting the truth.

As this is a matter about taking someone's life, there are many rules regarding it. As it is better to give the benefit of doubt rather than be wrong and execute a person who was not deserving. So if a person said something whereby according to 99 interpretations it would mean he has committed apostasy and 1 interpretation whereby it wouldn't be seen as apostasy then this 1 interpretation would be given precedence over the 99 interpretations.

(Original post by mnak)
did any of the imams make mistakes.
Will come back to this later
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SoulfulTwist
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(Original post by mnak)
did any of the imams make mistakes
It wouldn't be classed as mistakes.
See, they base their rulings on the quran and ahadith.
Once when a companion of he prophet was sent to govern somewhere (i fail to recall who at the moment). The prophet asked the companion that when a matter is brought before you, how will you make judgement? The companion replied, based in the quran.
The prophet then asked, and if you do not find the answer there? The companion replied, then I will look to your words/actions (hadith)
The prophet then asked, and if you do not find the answer there? The companion replied that I will then contemplate on it.
To this, the prophet replied that all praises are to Allah who gave my companion such understanding.
(^^ this is on my own words)

All the 4 imams based their rules on quran and hadith, and wherever there were in the apparent two contradictory verses/hadith etc then they would contemplate on it and draw their own conclusions. This was permissable for them as they had been gifted with full understanding of all the various fields of Islam, and more so in the field of fiqh/jurisprudence.
If in the event they did get something wrong, they get one reward still as they followed the abovei hadith, and where they got something right they would get double the reward. Therefore, their getting something wrong is not classed as wrong, hence why it is important to follow one of them.

Besides, all of their main points are the same. They only differ in the finer details.
For example, they all have the same timing for salaah, the same amount of rakats to pray, etc
It is the finer details where they differ e.g. should the hands be raised or not? Etc.

I have already explained in one of my posts before that this in itself is a blessing.
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