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    (Original post by princess_bratty)
    I think everyone is forgetting what purpose university has. It was built for specific jobs that need intense training eg.medicine or law. In other words, to make you employable for that job.

    Nowadays most students when asked, 'why are you going to university?' would reply, 'to get a degree.' Unless it is the, how to put this.. the hardest courses to get into eg.vetinary, medicine, architecture, law. And they would answer, 'Because I want to be a vet, a doctor, an architect or a lawyer.' They are the ones studying for a further purpose than a degree, a career.

    University is just further education in a specific subject and I can't even imagine, why ANYONE would apply for some of those courses. Most adults could have jobs in those because bluntly, they aren't rocket science! My friend has a degree in Media Studies but how has he used his degree? He has a job in a Wine Shop.

    It's not snobbery, it's just plain sense that your wasting money and time in a degree in adventure tourism!!

    PS. It's ridiculous that hacking a game is genius. If you can all do it, you're all equal and therefore it's just mediocre. The people that invented the game could obviously hack the game because they made it and if they invented a degree in 'Hacking Computer Games' I don't see where you could get a job with that.

    Not that I understand the employability of a degree in Music Theory though.

    PSS. I think the best thing is to join debate society when you all get to university because you all seem well suited.
    Given the security of WOW, I would be pretty impressed by anyone who cracked it without getting caught.
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    There is, incidentally, a degree at Abertay in I think it'd called Ethical Hacking.
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    (Original post by simon123)
    haha what nonsense. Classics and Philosophy enable you to develop that skill known as thinking. It can be quite useful you know.
    Since when do you need to go to university to be able to think?
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    Hackers are one of the most valuable assets to the whole technology industry.
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    (Original post by Brotherhood)
    Video game degrees are still thought of as 'Mickey Mouse', yet one cannot argue the academic discipline and intelligence needed for one, nor the job prospects at the end.
    That’s because you have "Computer science".

    I very much doubt Video game degrees give you a solid foundation in computing; rather it just makes you too specialized in one area of computing. I highly doubt individuals that do that course will understand the intrigues of computers in the same way a CSer will. Hence, they will probably have a tougher time adapting to other aspects of computing as a result of this.

    But yes -- I can imagine that it would be a difficult degree never the less.
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    (Original post by Brotherhood)
    Hackers are one of the most valuable assets to the whole technology industry.
    Yeah, and most of the good ones were incidentally self-taught and are running the big corporations in IT.

    Look at Linux and GNU project!

    Gates - comp sci drop out.

    Atari - was created in someones garage.

    Yahoo, Facebook, amazon, google etc.
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    Everyone wants something different in life.

    • I'm studying med chemistry as I want to make a difference to others in the future.
    • Some people I know are studying VetMed (at the same place), as they want to be vets.
    • Some of my friends want to study geology as they've got a passion for the subject.
    • One of my mates isn't bothering with uni as he would rather continue his education through an apprenticeship as he's worked out he's just going to get into debt just for the sake of being a student.
    • Some people want to go to Uni as they want to prove to themselves and others that they can do it, and come out with a degree.


    I personally think that psychology, sociology and media are worthwhile courses at uni (in spite of them being kinda new age degrees), as they take skills, psychology takes analytical skills, sociology takes mathematical skills and media takes writing skills.

    As for golf management and fashion buying, they're not for me, and in my opininon they may be more suited to a practical course (such as an NVQ), and seem degrees for degrees sake, but if one of my flatmates if doing fashion buying (highly doubtful seeing as it's a 100% Uni of Liverpool flat), provided they don't think it's better (or as good as) the above mentioned degrees, I don't mind, they've shown commitment to futhering they're knowledge, as have I and as has everyone at Uni, and that's the important thing.
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    a similar comment would be for instance the teaching of 'Mathematics' and 'Mathematical Studies' where at my uni maths requires 100/120 credits in maths, where as mathematical studies you have 80 in maths and then 40 credits in whatever..

    i must say as a maths student, albeit one who puts in no effort and subsequently is not doing to well (see other thread.. ) i still take a snobbery line when it comes to the difference between the two
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    (Original post by princess_bratty)
    I think everyone is forgetting what purpose university has. It was built for specific jobs that need intense training eg.medicine or law. In other words, to make you employable for that job.

    Nowadays most students when asked, 'why are you going to university?' would reply, 'to get a degree.' Unless it is the, how to put this.. the hardest courses to get into eg.vetinary, medicine, architecture, law. And they would answer, 'Because I want to be a vet, a doctor, an architect or a lawyer.' They are the ones studying for a further purpose than a degree, a career.

    University is just further education in a specific subject and I can't even imagine, why ANYONE would apply for some of those courses. Most adults could have jobs in those because bluntly, they aren't rocket science! My friend has a degree in Media Studies but how has he used his degree? He has a job in a Wine Shop.

    It's not snobbery, it's just plain sense that your wasting money and time in a degree in adventure tourism!!

    PS. It's ridiculous that hacking a game is genius. If you can all do it, you're all equal and therefore it's just mediocre. The people that invented the game could obviously hack the game because they made it and if they invented a degree in 'Hacking Computer Games' I don't see where you could get a job with that.

    Not that I understand the employability of a degree in Music Theory though.

    PSS. I think the best thing is to join debate society when you all get to university because you all seem well suited.
    I agree with most of what you have said. I don't see the point in going to university, spending vast amounts of time and money, if you don't know what you want to do after your degree.
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    (Original post by pomeroy784)
    It's not snobbery - saying something like business studies is a pointless degree is snobbery, in this case, it's just pointing out which degrees that we don't need.
    I wanted to quote this because I hope everyone can see how flawed and hypocritical it is.

    There is a fine distinction to be made between suggesting a better economic alternative and academic snobbery. I agree with a lot of the people on this thread that some things are better off being learnt whilst working - you dont rack up a debt and earn an income at the same time making it a much more viable option provided you are going to end up in the same position. My brother left college after A levels and worked in freight for 3 years - hes now at an international company as a supervisor over a team of people, most of which are graduates.

    Academic snobbery is the simple devaluing of someone elses qualification that is the same as yours - which most people on this thread have done despite starting off with some sort of "Im not a snob but..." A BSc is a BSc, although the subject matter may tailor them towards different skills/jos/sectors. I have some sympathy with Shadys comments regarding an academic framework. There is none of course for these new subjects, and all I can offer in retort is that perhaps there is no framework as yet soley because these are new subjects.

    I think a lot of this type of outburst is largely middle class hysteria. This type of argument has been prevalent (in various forms) and documented since the HE boom in the 60s/70s. When I went to university Media studies was constantly ridiculed - whereas this thread has been strangely tolerant of media studies. I think most people, even those people that profess their desire for education to be open to all, to be some what protective and hesitant when it comes to degree level education. People (especially the middle classes) traditionally saw a degree as a passport to a good job and with lots of people having degrees there is increased competition so this is less of a reality. Of course, by devaluing one degree in favour of another, it means there is theorhetically less of a graduate pool to compete with.
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    If anyone thinks that the majority of people who go to even the best universities are better than the best people who didn't go to university then, in my opinion, they are wrong as that would include the likes of William Shakespeare, many famous painters and some of our most original, finest musicians, entrepreneurs and, yes, thinkers.

    University can broaden the mind and it can also narrow the mind. It's one part of the tapestry of life though, if you are lucky and/or choose wisely it can be an important part of it.
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    (Original post by Picnico)
    If anyone thinks that the majority of people who go to even the best universities are better than the best people who didn't go to university then, in my opinion, they are wrong as that would include the likes of William Shakespeare, many famous painters and some of our most original, finest musicians, entrepreneurs and, yes, thinkers.

    University can broaden the mind and it can also narrow the mind. It's one part of the tapestry of life though, if you are lucky and/or choose wisely it can be an important part of it.
    Surely you can think of a better example than William Shakespeare!! I mean he lived in the 1500's - University was only accessible to but the tiniest proportion of the population there being indeed only two universities in England! Thomas Hardy would be a better person to give perhaps...
    Edit: Oh well perhaps I was wrong about Thomas Hardy - it says on wikipedia he went to King's London - but I could have sworn that when I read Jude the Obscure it stated that Hardy had not gone to university.. (he had had the chance to go to Cambridge but had not taken it - hence the novel was seen as to an extent autobiographical).
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    (Original post by Perfection)
    I wanted to quote this because I hope everyone can see how flawed and hypocritical it is.

    There is a fine distinction to be made between suggesting a better economic alternative and academic snobbery. I agree with a lot of the people on this thread that some things are better off being learnt whilst working - you dont rack up a debt and earn an income at the same time making it a much more viable option provided you are going to end up in the same position. My brother left college after A levels and worked in freight for 3 years - hes now at an international company as a supervisor over a team of people, most of which are graduates.

    Academic snobbery is the simple devaluing of someone elses qualification that is the same as yours which most people on this thread have done despite starting off with some sort of "Im not a snob but..." A BSc is a BSc, although the subject matter may tailor them towards different skills/jos/sectors. I have some sympathy with Shadys comments regarding an academic framework. There is none of course for these new subjects, and all I can offer in retort is that perhaps there is no framework as yet soley because these are new subjects.

    I think a lot of this type of outburst is largely middle class hysteria. This type of argument has been prevalent (in various forms) and documented since the HE boom in the 60s/70s. When I went to university Media studies was constantly ridiculed - whereas this thread has been strangely tolerant of media studies. I think most people, even those people that profess their desire for education to be open to all, to be some what protective and hesitant when it comes to degree level education. People (especially the middle classes) traditionally saw a degree as a passport to a good job and with lots of people having degrees there is increased competition so this is less of a reality. Of course, by devaluing one degree in favour of another, it means there is theorhetically less of a graduate pool to compete with.

    I just dont see the point in media studies. Dont get me wrong i dont care what other people study, but how can you not see it as the easy option. If i wanted to work in the media i would do a degree in ethier english lit or classics, so why do media studies? Plus doing ethier of these would give you better prspects if you decied you didnt want to work in the media.

    Still media studies is a different kettle of fish to say somethink like golf or wine studies which is just ridiculous.
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    (Original post by Dirk666)
    I just dont see the point in media studies. Dont get me wrong i dont care what other people study, but how can you not see it as the easy option. If i wanted to work in the media i would do a degree in ethier english lit or classics, so why do media studies? Plus doing ethier of these would give you better prspects if you decied you didnt want to work in the media.

    Still media studies is a different kettle of fish to say somethink like golf or wine studies which is just ridiculous.
    Im not sure classics would be better if you wanted to go into the media than media studies, although I havent studied either. Anyway, Im not getting into an argument over MS because you made my point yourself when you said that it is a different kettle of fish to golf studies etc. There is always a group of courses that are bashed as being 'below par' - someone always has to be at the bottom of the pile.

    Media studies used to be that group, but not its shifted onto this other group and in ten years time it will shift onto some other group of courses. If nobody can see the stupidity in this then you are beyond reason.
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    (Original post by shady lane)
    Those subjects are studied academically. There are PhD theses on fine art. Unless someone can prove to me that baking technology is a rigorous enough academic discipline that a university department can stand on its own, that it can support an academic journal or two, AND that its needs can't be met within another discipline like chemistry or engineering, then perhaps I will consider it on the same level as fine art.
    I don't think one can say that both those criteria are met by independent academic departments already in existance so how is it fair to insist that they are required for new academic subjects? Surely what you demand is impossible for a new academic area that is only just emerging? Most academic disciplines (including chemistry) have had to grow off from other parent disciplines before establishing themselves in their own right, demanding that new subjects instantaneously do this seems mighty unfair in those historical circumstances.

    As for PhDs in Fine art, they seem to be quite new, at least in the UK - art history was always deemed to be the place one did that kind of research previously.
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    That's how I determine what's vocational and what's academic. I'm not saying everyone has to agree with me, but that's my view. So that a baking degree should not be a bachelors. Even courses that are "vocational" like accounting and finance focus on academic theories, rather than practical work. That's what a degree is for; otherwise, it's an apprenticeship. In which case rubbish universities won't take £3K a year from unsuspecting people (who are usually from lower socioeconomic backgrounds, as it were) and make them believe their BA in Golf Management is equivalent to a BA in History--even from the same instutition.
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    My course is often deemed to be "mickey mouse" because it's related to computer games.

    However, peoples wild assumptions are often misguided, thinking that all I do is "analyse computer games" or "play computer games all day"; when they're far from the truth.

    My degree concerns programming computer games, what makes them work, how to make them, the principles of software engineering. It involves many aspects of different subjects, including Computer Science, Mathematics, Physics and an understanding of game design.

    While it may be a specified subset of Computer Science as a whole, I still think it's a worthwhile degree that's horribly misrepresented by the media.
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    (Original post by shady lane)
    That's how I determine what's vocational and what's academic. I'm not saying everyone has to agree with me, but that's my view.
    It's static though, academia is not.

    So that a baking degree should not be a bachelors. Even courses that are "vocational" like accounting and finance focus on academic theories, rather than practical work. That's what a degree is for; otherwise, it's an apprenticeship. In which case rubbish universities won't take £3K a year from unsuspecting people (who are usually from lower socioeconomic backgrounds, as it were) and make them believe their BA in Golf Management is equivalent to a BA in History--even from the same instutition.
    You see, you are assuming that these degrees don't have any academic basis. I can think of many academic theories, chemical, biological, engineering and management that could underpin a baking technology degree and I'm sure do (well if the course syllabi are to be believed).
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    (Original post by Picnico)
    If anyone thinks that the majority of people who go to even the best universities are better than the best people who didn't go to university then, in my opinion, they are wrong as that would include the likes of William Shakespeare, many famous painters and some of our most original, finest musicians, entrepreneurs and, yes, thinkers.

    University can broaden the mind and it can also narrow the mind. It's one part of the tapestry of life though, if you are lucky and/or choose wisely it can be an important part of it.
    maybe they didnt go to uni because uni didnt exist back then, atleast not to the level it exists now.
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    (Original post by Jon_irving)
    maybe they didnt go to uni because uni didnt exist back then, atleast not to the level it exists now.
    There are still many contemporary examples.
 
 
 
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