queenofswords
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-38114953

2016 has been quite a year for the death of icons.

What are your thoughts on the Cuban Revolutionary leader?
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shawn_o1
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#2
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Will we be seeing mass hysterical grief on Cuban streets or a more appropriate show of respect I wonder...
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Orbital Rising
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Truly a legend, one of the greatest figures of the 20th century. The world will suffer for this loss.
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Rakas21
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He was awful.

Cuba in the 50's may have been poorly managed in terms of education and utilities and inequality but Havana was essentially Las Vegas at the sea, Cuba's real wages after inflation were the third highest in the world and it's GDP per capita were comparable to Italy and Japan.

Cuba today may be equal and its citizens above the extreme poverty line but it's GDP per capita is half the global average and it's people relatively impoverished when compared to the rest of the world.

To put it this way, it we double the GDP per capita to take into account the trade embargo then Cuba reaches the global average but if we never have the revolution and assume that Cuba experiences the same moderate growth as Italy and Japan over 50 years then Cuba is as wealthy as the UK in per capita terms.

Plus he almost started nuclear war.

..

Lefties admire him because he was not genocidal and managed to feed and clothe his people but he still represents the failure of a planned economy when compared to what could have been.

The people needed a slightly more progressive approach from government.. they got a axe to the throat.
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Orbital Rising
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(Original post by Rakas21)
He was awful.

Cuba in the 50's may have been poorly managed in terms of education and utilities and inequality but Havana was essentially Las Vegas at the sea, Cuba's real wages after inflation were the third highest in the world and it's GDP per capita were comparable to Italy and Japan.

Cuba today may be equal and its citizens above the extreme poverty line but it's GDP per capita is half the global average and it's people relatively impoverished when compared to the rest of the world.

To put it this way, it we double the GDP per capita to take into account the trade embargo then Cuba reaches the global average but if we never have the revolution and assume that Cuba experiences the same moderate growth as Italy and Japan over 50 years then Cuba is as wealthy as the UK in per capita terms.

Plus he almost started nuclear war.

..

Lefties admire him because he was not genocidal and managed to feed and clothe his people but he still represents the failure of a planned economy when compared to what could have been.

The people needed a slightly more progressive approach from government.. they got a axe to the throat.
Compared to US.

41.1%<unemployment.
93.72%<money spent on health care.
89.87%< electricity use.
76.99%<oil
-hello Donald Trump global warming denier.
26.93%<probability of dying in prison.
23.82%<probability of dying in infancy.
83.33%<probability of HIV/AIDS.
~100% literacy rate.

No enforced Gitmo on another country, imperialism, Snowden controversy, Donald Trump.
All while under a 50 year embargo.

Now tell me more about how Castro was awful.

https://www.ifitweremyhome.com/compare/US/CU
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/...S?locations=CU
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Fadel
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(Original post by Rakas21)
He was awful.

Cuba in the 50's may have been poorly managed in terms of education and utilities and inequality but Havana was essentially Las Vegas at the sea, Cuba's real wages after inflation were the third highest in the world and it's GDP per capita were comparable to Italy and Japan.

Cuba today may be equal and its citizens above the extreme poverty line but it's GDP per capita is half the global average and it's people relatively impoverished when compared to the rest of the world.

To put it this way, it we double the GDP per capita to take into account the trade embargo then Cuba reaches the global average but if we never have the revolution and assume that Cuba experiences the same moderate growth as Italy and Japan over 50 years then Cuba is as wealthy as the UK in per capita terms.

Plus he almost started nuclear war.

..

Lefties admire him because he was not genocidal and managed to feed and clothe his people but he still represents the failure of a planned economy when compared to what could have been.

The people needed a slightly more progressive approach from government.. they got a axe to the throat.
Cuba started developing its industrial sphere and agraiculture rapidly. The help of USSR played a major role. They started forming a quite powerful army and a great healthcare system. It became a truly independent country with the most powerful country behind its back. Look at it now, it's quite obvious how good its living standards are after falling into USA's claws. Kennedy is the one who wanted to start a nuclear war, after he placed nukes in Turkey to threaten USSR. But Khruschev took his counter measures.
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Fractite
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No matter if you love him or hate him, you have to give it to him that he managed to overthrow the previous government and create an autocratic rule for a good 50 years.
A lot of people remember him for the Cuban Missile Crisis, but he has actually managed to do other great things (increase literacy rate to the levels of other rapidly industrialising countries, create a strong healthcare system etc,) albeit he piggybacked off the USSR - and when communism fell, so did Cuba's economy.
If people are to consider Stalin as one of the great figures of the 20th century, then Fidel Castro has to have at least some recognition.
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the bear
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when i heard that a bearded socialist dinosaur had passed away my hopes were raised, only to be dashed when i found that it was El Jefe.
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RF_PineMarten
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#9
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(Original post by Orbital Rising)
Truly a legend, one of the greatest figures of the 20th century.
He was a dictator who ran a one party state that suppressed any dissent and was responsible for all sorts of human rights abuses.
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Orbital Rising
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(Original post by RF_PineMarten)
He was a dictator who ran a one party state that suppressed any dissent and was responsible for all sorts of human rights abuses.
As opposed to a totalitarian democracy which backed the coups of fascist dictators.
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RF_PineMarten
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(Original post by Orbital Rising)
As opposed to a totalitarian democracy which backed the coups of fascist dictators.
Which I never said anything about. Don't change the subject.
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Drewski
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(Original post by Orbital Rising)
The world will suffer for this loss.
The world won't even notice.
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Orbital Rising
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(Original post by Drewski)
The world won't even notice.
Castro is a part of history whereas nobody will ever know your name.
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Orbital Rising
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(Original post by RF_PineMarten)
Which I never said anything about. Don't change the subject.
It is all interconnected. Castro's violence was justified as an act of self-defence against the parasites who were ruining Cuba. Unless you really think Batista and his followers deserved to live in which case you are capitalist swine.

You should consider cleaning the dirt from under the nails of your system before pointing accusingly at Cuba.
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Tsar101
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Fidel Castro was a really great man. He did so much for his people. Rest in peace sir.
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Drewski
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(Original post by Orbital Rising)
Castro is a part of history whereas nobody will ever know your name.
Part of history isn't the same thing as saying the world will suffer.

How will it suffer? What's he been doing the last few years that has affected the whole world? How many average people outside North America and Europe have ever even heard of him?
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RF_PineMarten
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(Original post by Orbital Rising)
It is all interconnected. Castro's violence was justified as an act of self-defence against the parasites who were ruining Cuba. Unless you really think Batista and his followers deserved to live in which case you are capitalist swine.

You should consider cleaning the dirt from under the nails of your system before pointing accusingly at Cuba.
You should consider not using stupid whataboutery as an argument.

You should also consider not making ridiculous assumptions about my political views based on one thing that I've said. You think that having a negative opinion of a communist dictator means I must automatically support the authoritarian government that preceeded him, or the actions of certain western countries in Latin America? Seriously? That's one hell of a leap of logic there.


And political repression of your own citizens is not "self defence".
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Orbital Rising
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(Original post by Drewski)
Part of history isn't the same thing as saying the world will suffer.

How will it suffer? What's he been doing the last few years that has affected the whole world? How many average people outside North America and Europe have ever even heard of him?
He was a revolutionary who stayed true to his principles in an age of two-faced politicians. If not in a literal sense of a global effect it is nevertheless true that something valuable has been lost.
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Stalin
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(Original post by Rakas21)
He was awful.

Cuba in the 50's may have been poorly managed in terms of education and utilities and inequality but Havana was essentially Las Vegas at the sea, Cuba's real wages after inflation were the third highest in the world and it's GDP per capita were comparable to Italy and Japan.

Cuba today may be equal and its citizens above the extreme poverty line but it's GDP per capita is half the global average and it's people relatively impoverished when compared to the rest of the world.

To put it this way, it we double the GDP per capita to take into account the trade embargo then Cuba reaches the global average but if we never have the revolution and assume that Cuba experiences the same moderate growth as Italy and Japan over 50 years then Cuba is as wealthy as the UK in per capita terms.

Plus he almost started nuclear war.

..

Lefties admire him because he was not genocidal and managed to feed and clothe his people but he still represents the failure of a planned economy when compared to what could have been.

The people needed a slightly more progressive approach from government.. they got a axe to the throat.
:toofunny:
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Orbital Rising
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(Original post by RF_PineMarten)
You should consider not using stupid whataboutery as an argument.

You should also consider not making ridiculous assumptions about my political views based on one thing that I've said. You think that having a negative opinion of a communist dictator means I must automatically support the authoritarian government that preceeded him, or the actions of certain western countries in Latin America? Seriously? That's one hell of a leap of logic there.


And political repression of your own citizens is not "self defence".
Nobody is perfect and revolutions are not pretty, and it is only the critic who out of insecurity consistently attacks the weakest link. It is clear from my previous post that Cuba has achieved great things from a difficult geopolitical position and overall there has been a net positive change.
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