The Student Room Group

Just done my first Driving lesson - what do you do with gears at traffic lights?

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Original post by Good bloke
The problem with that (which is fine for a learner) is, by stopping when you don't need to, you may have missed a gap in the traffic you could have used. The result is you will have to wait for quite some time, with the people behind cursing at the driver who should have gone, the queue will build up unnecessarily and traffic slows. Experienced drivers are expected to show their experience.


Perhaps, but like I said before, I'd rather a minor for hesitation than do something potentially dangerous
Original post by cherryred90s
Perhaps, but like I said before, I'd rather a minor for hesitation than do something potentially dangerous


On a completely blind junction it is obviously unsafe to go. But relatively few junctions (in most places!) are truly blind, and I'm not sure where you're living to have every single junction with zero visibility.

I guess you have encapsulated the point people are making which is that if you feel unsafe to go at a junction then don't go. Nobody should be going at blind junctions without stopping to check because it's unsafe. And if you feel uncomfortable assessing a junction without stopping then absolutely don't do it, always stop.

But if a junction is not blind, as you accumulate experience (that person's point about unconscious competence), you may be able to tell it is safe to go without having to completely stop. It is not dangerous to pull out at a junction if you are sure that there is no traffic coming, and that is an assessment you will be able to make increasingly quickly and competently with time - to the point where at non-blind junctions, you may indeed find you have no need to stop because you become expert at carrying out that assessment...
Reply 62
Original post by cherryred90s
Most are, but one time I slowed down and didn't come to a complete stop and my instructor told me to always stop to show the examiner that I've acknowledged the give way lines and to give myself extra time to see what's going on ahead, so now I always do it


Fairs
Original post by seaholme
On a completely blind junction it is obviously unsafe to go. But relatively few junctions (in most places!) are truly blind, and I'm not sure where you're living to have every single junction with zero visibility.

I guess you have encapsulated the point people are making which is that if you feel unsafe to go at a junction then don't go. Nobody should be going at blind junctions without stopping to check because it's unsafe. And if you feel uncomfortable assessing a junction without stopping then absolutely don't do it, always stop.

But if a junction is not blind, as you accumulate experience (that person's point about unconscious competence), you may be able to tell it is safe to go without having to completely stop. It is not dangerous to pull out at a junction if you are sure that there is no traffic coming, and that is an assessment you will be able to make increasingly quickly and competently with time - to the point where at non-blind junctions, you may indeed find you have no need to stop because you become expert at carrying out that assessment...


I didn't say all the junctions around my area have zero visibility, I said most of them do and for the ones that don't, I've been taught to stop anyway.

Yeah, and maybe once I'm driving on my own and not being assessed, I won't come to a complete stop if I can see clearly, but it's not about me being incompetent, it's about me wanting to pass my test.
Original post by cherryred90s
Perhaps, but like I said before, I'd rather a minor for hesitation than do something potentially dangerous


Ah! So you are still a learner. I was mislead by your claim to be competent a few posts ago, and assumed you had passed your test. No learner is competent. You only truly start to learn to drive when you have passed your test.

Obviously, it is better to be over-cautious as a learner.
Original post by Reality Check
I thought when you're stopped in traffic such as waiting at traffic lights you're supposed to put it into neutral and apply the handbrake. The rationale of not leaving it in first with the clutch down is that if for some reason your foot came off the clutch with it in gear (this is quite feasible) the car could lurch forwards and hit the car in front. If you're pausing at a junction and you're first in line to go out, then obviously you have it in the correct gear with the handbrake off, using the footbrake to hold the car until you're ready to smoothly pull out and join the traffic flow.


I think this is correct. Being in neutral reduces the risk that you will accidentally take off and hit a pedestrian or whatever. It's also easier.

Some of this depends on how long you are likely to be waiting - if you've just pulled up to lights and they are clearly about to turn, there's not a lot of point going to neutral and putting the h/b on. On the other hand, if you've arrived at lights and stopped because they just turned red and you are at the front, it's probably going to be a while and that's a classic situation for going neutral and sticking the handbrake on. So there's an element of judgement each time.

A lot of newer cars apply the handbrake automatically when you stop and go neutral now anyway.
Original post by seaholme
On a completely blind junction it is obviously unsafe to go. But relatively few junctions (in most places!) are truly blind, and I'm not sure where you're living to have every single junction with zero visibility.

I guess you have encapsulated the point people are making which is that if you feel unsafe to go at a junction then don't go. Nobody should be going at blind junctions without stopping to check because it's unsafe. And if you feel uncomfortable assessing a junction without stopping then absolutely don't do it, always stop.

But if a junction is not blind, as you accumulate experience (that person's point about unconscious competence), you may be able to tell it is safe to go without having to completely stop. It is not dangerous to pull out at a junction if you are sure that there is no traffic coming, and that is an assessment you will be able to make increasingly quickly and competently with time - to the point where at non-blind junctions, you may indeed find you have no need to stop because you become expert at carrying out that assessment...


I agree with all that. What I've found on blind junctions is that you really have to do everything you possibly can to help determine if it's safe, so if it's safe to nudge out a little to try to get a better view, that can help - winding the windows down to see if you can hear things coming - at night you can often see lights before the vehicle and so on.

The absolute worst is to just head out 'hoping' it will be OK. Loads and loads of drivers do that and it's a fair bet that they are the group that have the highest statistical chance of crashing.
Original post by Good bloke
Ah! So you are still a learner. I was mislead by your claim to be competent a few posts ago, and assumed you had passed your test. No learner is competent. You only truly start to learn to drive when you have passed your test.

Obviously, it is better to be over-cautious as a learner.


Passing your test doesn't necessarily make you competent, that's why so many people crash not long after they've passed.

& Yes, I know it's better to be over cautious, I did try to explain that before..
Original post by cherryred90s
Passing your test doesn't necessarily make you competent, that's why so many people crash not long after they've passed.

& Yes, I know it's better to be over cautious, I did try to explain that before..


You also misled us into thinking your were competent, by claiming you are competent.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
I agree with all that. What I've found on blind junctions is that you really have to do everything you possibly can to help determine if it's safe, so if it's safe to nudge out a little to try to get a better view, that can help - winding the windows down to see if you can hear things coming - at night you can often see lights before the vehicle and so on.

The absolute worst is to just head out 'hoping' it will be OK. Loads and loads of drivers do that and it's a fair bet that they are the group that have the highest statistical chance of crashing.


Good advice. One thing I've noticed is that people will tend to head out cautiously at a blind junction, setting off slowly once they think nothing is coming.

In fact, what you should do is, having decided the time is ripe to go, go quickly.
Original post by Good bloke
You also misled us into thinking your were competent, by claiming you are competent.


I didn't mislead anyone, I know that I am competent. You know nothing about to me to claim the opposite :smile:
Original post by cherryred90s
I didn't mislead anyone, I know that I am competent. You know nothing about to me to claim the opposite :smile:


I know that you are a learner driver and, as I have said (and you yourself acknowledged), those who have just passed their test are only just starting to learn to drive, so you have not even reached that stage. Passing the test is only an indication that you are sufficiently competent in the basics.

To see a learner driver claiming to be competent is worrying. You should read that link I gave you and you may learn something about learning.
Original post by Good bloke


In fact, what you should do is, having decided the time is ripe to go, go quickly.


This is obviously true, but I find this part quite scary at times, especially at night on dark roads. I suppose I will get more confident over time (I've been driving about 6 years, but not all the time and I've had long periods in that when I wasn't driving), but these situations can be really intimidating.

The thing I really hate is if I have demanding people behind me flashing or tooting at me when I'm trying to make up my mind if it's safe to go. :angry:
Original post by Good bloke
I know that you are a learner driver and, as I have said (and you yourself acknowledged), those who have just passed their test are only just starting to learn to drive, so you have not even reached that stage. Passing the test is only an indication that you are sufficiently competent in the basics.

To see a learner driver claiming to be competent is worrying. You should read that link I gave you and you may learn something about learning.


I am competent in that I do know the basics, it's just a matter of gaining experience of course. im not claiming to be experienced, and ive never claimed that. Literally all I said is that I stop at junctions and a stranger is telling me that I do so because I'm incompetent when in fact, I do so because my instructor has told me to in order to be safe. You're arguing with me for no reason
Original post by cherryred90s
a stranger is telling me that I do so because I'm incompetent


I suspect that your problem is that you have seen the word incompetent, taken offence to it and not read it in context. I expect you didn't read the link I provided which explained the phrase I used in its full context.

I said that it sounded as if you have not yet reached the stage of unconscious competence, and you obviously haven't, nor would I expect any learner to have done so.
Original post by Good bloke
I suspect that your problem is that you have seen the word incompetent, taken offence to it and not read it in context. I expect you didn't read the link I provided which explained the phrase I used in its full context.

I said that it sounded as if you have not yet reached the stage of unconscious competence, and you obviously haven't, nor would I expect any learner to have done so.


I'm just going to say OK so that this can end
Original post by blobbybill
once you are stopped fully, put the handbrake on and change into neutral.
However, what do you do with the foot brake pedal then? When do you take it off when coming to a complete stop? Do you let go of the foot pedal after putting on the handbrake?


Not sure if anyone actually answered this bit directly so I will.

Once you've applied the handbrake, take your foot off the brake. If you are not using the handbrake, keep your foot on it until you want to move again.

For all other queries, ask your instructor as you are getting a lot of bad advice on this thread and it's hard to for a learner to sift the good from the bad.
Original post by chazwomaq

Once you've applied the handbrake, take your foot off the brake.


Good point. Staring into the brakelights of the car ahead, especially on a wet day or at night, is quite dazzling and wearing.
Original post by cherryred90s
Yeah, and maybe once I'm driving on my own and not being assessed, I won't come to a complete stop if I can see clearly, but it's not about me being incompetent, it's about me wanting to pass my test.


I see, from your posts I didn't realise you were still learning for your test. Yes on your test do exactly as you have been taught.

IMO you don't start becoming 'unconsciously competent' as described until you've been driving for a good while, I think it took me at least 6 months of driving pretty regularly in different situations before I stopped thinking about most of the things I did when driving. Even if you did somehow have that much driving experience as a learner it would be inadvisable to do on your test because they're specifically (and rightly probably!) looking for somewhat exaggerated caution.
Original post by seaholme
I see, from your posts I didn't realise you were still learning for your test. Yes on your test do exactly as you have been taught.

IMO you don't start becoming 'unconsciously competent' as described until you've been driving for a good while, I think it took me at least 6 months of driving pretty regularly in different situations before I stopped thinking about most of the things I did when driving. Even if you did somehow have that much driving experience as a learner it would be inadvisable to do on your test because they're specifically (and rightly probably!) looking for somewhat exaggerated caution.


Yeah you're right. It just bothered me that someone said I'm incompetent because I stop at junctions as I've been instructed to do. I could pull out without stopping, but then I'd likely fail.
But yes, I'm definitely not experienced and I imagine I still have a lot to learn

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