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    I'm glad that they are cutting hours because I've had a junior doctor fall asleep on me once! :eek:
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    R they truly cutting in hours!!?? so i suppose we'll be paid less too? i mean, we'll have less overtime? gosh! my friends told me that they do learn loads about emergency specially during overtime cos of road accidents at night
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    (Original post by Farhad1985)
    my friends told me that they do learn loads about emergency specially during overtime cos of road accidents at night
    yeah, bloody great isn't it? :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by shiny)
    I'm glad that they are cutting hours because I've had a junior doctor fall asleep on me once! :eek:
    To be honest I dont know if im really pleased about this, I mean I dont really mind long hours and it'd mean more overtime pay.
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    Long hours def can't be great for doctor and would result in poor care delivery to patients. The main problem is finding the extra doctors who will fill in the hours left!
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    (Original post by pkonline)
    Long hours def can't be great for doctor and would result in poor care delivery to patients. The main problem is finding the extra doctors who will fill in the hours left!
    The other problem is the fact that each hopsital will be fined £5000 per doc who works over their hours. More wasted NHS cash.
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    Gaining the necessary experience is also going to be more difficult,

    Plus, the chances are we'll lose the free accommo in the pre-reg year as they won't be obliged to accommodate us if we're working less than however many hours it currently is.
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    (Original post by joyabbott)
    Gaining the necessary experience is also going to be more difficult,

    Plus, the chances are we'll lose the free accommo in the pre-reg year as they won't be obliged to accommodate us if we're working less than however many hours it currently is.
    Dam Euro rules :mad:
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    i know...

    there's just no logic - Let's cut hours and experience (and unfortunately salaries too), yet fast track to consultant level... hmm, how exactly is that going to work. Not forgetting the lack of doctors due to reduced hours. Also, can't wait for the foundation scheme to come into action (note the sarcasm)
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    (Original post by joyabbott)
    i know...

    there's just no logic - Let's cut hours and experience (and unfortunately salaries too), yet fast track to consultant level... hmm, how exactly is that going to work. Not forgetting the lack of doctors due to reduced hours. Also, can't wait for the foundation scheme to come into action (note the sarcasm)
    foundation scheme- what's that?
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    They're basically rehashing the pre-reg.

    Instead of becoming an SHO after the first year, you'll become registered (hopefully), but enter an F2 year, where you'll do 3 or 4 rotations of various specialties (ones that appear to suit general practice!!!) and then continue on to be an SHO.

    The 'pilot' starts this week. No doubt it'll be in place for when I start in 2 years time.

    On the bright side (fingers very very tightly crosses), I've had a semi-job offer for an F2 post. It probably won't come off due to application technicalities, but I can hope.
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    They are cutting the hours down from an average of 70 p/w arent they? But what will the new week be - a basic 37hr? I suppose they will still organise it so that there will be shifts and internal rotations so that you have to go through working nights etc...but Im just assuming that to be the case..
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    (Original post by joyabbott)
    They're basically rehashing the pre-reg.

    Instead of becoming an SHO after the first year, you'll become registered (hopefully), but enter an F2 year, where you'll do 3 or 4 rotations of various specialties (ones that appear to suit general practice!!!) and then continue on to be an SHO.

    The 'pilot' starts this week. No doubt it'll be in place for when I start in 2 years time.

    On the bright side (fingers very very tightly crosses), I've had a semi-job offer for an F2 post. It probably won't come off due to application technicalities, but I can hope.
    ah right, when in the foundation years, would you still be called a PRHO or has the title changed too? :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by mjf)
    They are cutting the hours down from an average of 70 p/w arent they? But what will the new week be - a basic 37hr? I suppose they will still organise it so that there will be shifts and internal rotations so that you have to go through working nights etc...but Im just assuming that to be the case..
    By August 2007, they should be working 56-hour weeks, and by August 2009, 48 hours.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3939033.stm
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    (Original post by joyabbott)
    They're basically rehashing the pre-reg.

    Instead of becoming an SHO after the first year, you'll become registered (hopefully), but enter an F2 year, where you'll do 3 or 4 rotations of various specialties (ones that appear to suit general practice!!!) and then continue on to be an SHO.

    The 'pilot' starts this week. No doubt it'll be in place for when I start in 2 years time.

    On the bright side (fingers very very tightly crosses), I've had a semi-job offer for an F2 post. It probably won't come off due to application technicalities, but I can hope.
    I spoke to an ophthalmologist last week, who's actually devising the curriculum for the Foundation thingy rotations...and apparently, doctors will be "channelled" so that they specialize earlier on in their career and they get more experience in their particular speciality...and he showed me the new curriculum that he set up and everything...
    I don't get it...will F2s(whatever these doctors will be called) have 6 month rotations, like SHOs do now???
    Does anybody actually -like- the idea of having this foundation scheme???
    But...it will take less time to become a consultant, right???
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    (Original post by pkonline)
    The main problem is finding the extra doctors who will fill in the hours left!
    they're trying to get around that problem by revolutionalising the way hospitals operate at night. i.e. scrap the on-call doctor for each ward and create an 'on-call night team' which basically work the whole night shift and cover all wards. thus, doctors would work "night shifts" every so often and not be "on call". this means less staff needed, but probably will result in less coverage/less specific knowledge of patients by a "one size fits all" night team.

    i would have been more than prepared to work extra-long hours in the first couple of years, it's part of the whole experience! however, they do need some restrictions as patients are being compromised due to over-tired doctors. we have gone too far in the other direction, in my humble opinion.
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    (Original post by timeofyourlife)
    however, they do need some restrictions as patients are being compromised due to over-tired doctors. we have gone too far in the other direction, in my humble opinion.
    Actually this is true, my dad had to have a quick stay in hospital recently and while talking to one of the junior docs she told him she'd had 2hrs sleep in 72 hours :eek:
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    (Original post by Daveo)
    Actually this is true, my dad had to have a quick stay in hospital recently and while talking to one of the junior docs she told him she'd had 2hrs sleep in 72 hours :eek:
    2 hours sleep??! back in my day, juniors had to survive for their entire attachment with 2 hours sleep, as well as being expected to escort their consultants to golf tournaments and make small talk with their kids. :cool:
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    F2 will entail either 3 4month posts, or 4 3month posts. I have no idea what you'll be called. It won't be a PRHO as you'll be registered, but won't be an SHO either. You'll be a PRHO in F1 still (that year will remain the same).

    I think a lot of Drs have signed get out clauses to exempt them from the restricted hours, though I guess only time will tell whether or not they will get paid for the additional hours!!! v. tricky.

    On-call teams at night and weekends have been happening for some time.

    As for becoming a consultant sooner, it's just going to be a 'name change'. They're going to be called 'junior consultants', which no doubt will be similar to SPRs at the moment. The problem in the system is actually getting a NTN at the moment. There are loads of unfilled consultant posts but a backlog at SPR level. There's no way people can become consultants sooner with reduced hours - no-one will have the necessary experience.

    As you can probably gather,i'm not awfully keen on the changes ahead.
    I've got a powerpoint on MMC if anyone's interested. Let me know and I'll e-mail it to you. It's got the 'layout' for Foundation scheme
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    At the end of the day all that matters is that patients are seen quickly and given good care. Having a Dr working silly hours isn't really gonna help him/her learn much, nor is it gonna help patient care.
 
 
 
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