Clamp down on dual citizenship rights after Brexit?

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Ambitious1999
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Heard on the radio that British people who apply for citizenship and passports in other EU countries like Poland, Ireland etc because they have ancestors or relatives in those countries and want to keep their EU citizenship and freedoms, may not be entitled to free NHS treatment or benefits.

They said that whilst British people are free to seek dual citizenship it may result in them losing the rights of Brits with single citizenship. Even if you continue to live study or work in Britain! So they would have to declare dual citizenship when making social security claims, housing benefit, or NHS treatment and they may not be allowed to benefits or free treatment. It could also affect eligibility to student loans, studentships and grants

EDIT
I'm bloody annoyed because I have relatives in Ireland and I wanted to apply for Irish citizenship so I can remain an EU citizen and be free to work or study around the EU in Spain, Germany etc. But now if I ever become unemployed I might not be allowed to get JSA or free treatment on the NHS if I broke my leg or something. Bloody brilliant! Not!

But then who would admit they have dual citizenship?
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z33
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das just r00d

I get giving free healthcare to British citizens exclusively, but if you have a dual citizenship with one of them being British then you are just as much a British citizen as single citizenship Brits and should have the same rights imo.

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Aladdinsaaane
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(Original post by Ambitious1999)
Heard on the radio that British people who apply for citizenship and passports in other EU countries like Poland, Ireland etc because they have ancestors or relatives in those countries and want to keep their EU citizenship and freedoms, may not be entitled to free NHS treatment or benefits.

They said that whilst British people are free to seek dual citizenship it may result in them losing the rights of Brits with single citizenship. Even if you continue to live study or work in Britain! So they would have to declare dual citizenship when making social security claims, housing benefit, or NHS treatment and they may not be allowed to benefits or free treatment. It could also affect eligibility to student loans, studentships and grants

But then who would admit they have dual citizenship?
None of that makes any sense and people talk about a lot of things that don't make sense so I wouldn't worry about it.

Even if this whole thing was to happen (which I don't see how it would, having dual citienship cannot strip you of rights that other citizens of your countries are entitled to. Kind of defeats the purpose of citizenship.), I'm not sure it's a question of 'admitting' to having dual citizenship, doesn't a British passport say what nationality you are? Obviously you need that to claim loans and sthings? (I'm from an EU country and I don't have a passport, so IDK how British passports work'.)
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Ambitious1999
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(Original post by z33)
das just r00d

I get giving free healthcare to British citizens exclusively, but if you have a dual citizenship with one of them being British then you are just as much a British citizen as single citizenship Brits and should have the same rights imo.

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I hope you're right but I was gonna apply for Irish citizenship and passport because I want to have the benefits of being an EU citizen post Brexit while still living in the UK as a British citizen but now I'm not so sure if its worth the risk if this new law comes in . I don't want to end up jobless and not be allowed JSA because of my status or have to pay for treatment if I break my leg
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Ambitious1999)
Heard on the radio that British people who apply for citizenship and passports in other EU countries like Poland, Ireland etc because they have ancestors or relatives in those countries and want to keep their EU citizenship and freedoms, may not be entitled to free NHS treatment or benefits.
I saw on the television that there is a man who travels through time and space in a telephone box. It doesn't mean it is true.

No-one with a standing has or would suggest such a thing.
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Ambitious1999
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(Original post by Aladdinsaaane)
None of that makes any sense and people talk about a lot of things that don't make sense so I wouldn't worry about it.

Even if this whole thing was to happen (which I don't see how it would, having dual citienship cannot strip you of rights that other citizens of your countries are entitled to. Kind of defeats the purpose of citizenship.), I'm not sure it's a question of 'admitting' to having dual citizenship, doesn't a British passport say what nationality you are? Obviously you need that to claim loans and sthings? (I'm from an EU country and I don't have a passport, so IDK how British passports work'.)
I really hope your right. The only thing that could stop it happening is that the government does not have enough seats in parliament to pass anything through. Thankfully they just lost a seat last week in Richmond


But sadly our family is not gonna take the risk of applying for Irish citizenship if we find ourselves losing out on NHS and benefit entitlements if we ever become unemployed or ill. Yes it would be nice to get Irish citizenship allowing us to enjoy the freedom of studying working or living anywhere in the EU, but I think we value our NHS and welfare system more should we ever need to use them, hopefully not but at least its a comfort to know we can use them. So we'll just hold our breath as we go over the Brexit waterfall with everyone else.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Ambitious1999)
I really hope your right. The only thing that could stop it happening is that the government does not have enough seats in parliament to pass anything through. Thankfully they just lost a seat last week in Richmond
This is rubbish. It has nothing to do with the number of seats in Parliament. There is not the slightest suggestion that the government proposes to do this. I do not know who you heard on the radio but it is nonsense.
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Didean
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How can you be refused NHS treatment if you've paid contributions during your working life, it doesn't make sense, if you have British nationality as,well as Irish, lucky you.
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JamesN88
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(Original post by Didean)
How can you be refused NHS treatment if you've paid contributions during your working life, it doesn't make sense, if you have British nationality as,well as Irish, lucky you.
You can't. The OP is well known as the village idiot of the D&CA forum.
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Mair18919
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(Original post by Aladdinsaaane)
which I don't see how it would, having dual citienship cannot strip you of rights that other citizens of your countries are entitled to. Kind of defeats the purpose of citizenship.
Not at all. Its perfectly reasonable to give those with dual citizenship the choice of British or other, but not both!
The vast majority of us have no such choice.
Many countries in the world do not tolerate dual citizenship or only do so in limited circumstances.
It would actually help to reduce immigration influx, as it is certainly one of a number of privileges Britain offers immigrants, as compared to other EU neighboring countries.
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poésietraduite
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I'll give up my dual citizenship when they unite Ireland. :ciao:
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paul514
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(Original post by Ambitious1999)
Heard on the radio that British people who apply for citizenship and passports in other EU countries like Poland, Ireland etc because they have ancestors or relatives in those countries and want to keep their EU citizenship and freedoms, may not be entitled to free NHS treatment or benefits.

They said that whilst British people are free to seek dual citizenship it may result in them losing the rights of Brits with single citizenship. Even if you continue to live study or work in Britain! So they would have to declare dual citizenship when making social security claims, housing benefit, or NHS treatment and they may not be allowed to benefits or free treatment. It could also affect eligibility to student loans, studentships and grants

EDIT
I'm bloody annoyed because I have relatives in Ireland and I wanted to apply for Irish citizenship so I can remain an EU citizen and be free to work or study around the EU in Spain, Germany etc. But now if I ever become unemployed I might not be allowed to get JSA or free treatment on the NHS if I broke my leg or something. Bloody brilliant! Not!

But then who would admit they have dual citizenship?
Yea none of that makes sense and is total crap


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JamesN88
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(Original post by Mair18919)
Not at all. Its perfectly reasonable to give those with dual citizenship the choice of British or other, but not both!
The vast majority of us have no such choice.
Many countries in the world do not tolerate dual citizenship or only do so in limited circumstances.
It would actually help to reduce immigration influx, as it is certainly one of a number of privileges Britain offers immigrants, as compared to other EU neighboring countries.
So someone with one foreign and one British parent should be forced to choose, how is that reasonable?
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Mair18919
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(Original post by JamesN88)
So someone with one foreign and one British parent should be forced to choose, how is that reasonable?
Its perfectly reasonable as its what most other countries do.

What is unreasonable is that people lucky enough to be granted citizenship of another land should be allowed that privilege when most people in the world enjoy no such dual entitlement.

Its illogical to support jus sanguinis if you support free movement, as I suspect you do. Why should Patrick be allowed Irish citizenship just because he had a granny who was born there?
If Pavels father migrated to Britain why should he expect to be able to pass on his Polish citizenship to his son who is entitled to British citizenship too? Isn't he supposed to be 'as British as us' now? Its a privilege even to have a choice in the matter, never mind having your cake an d eating it!
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JamesN88
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(Original post by Mair18919)
Its perfectly reasonable as its what most other countries do.

What is unreasonable is that people lucky enough to be granted citizenship of another land should be allowed that privilege when most people in the world enjoy no such dual entitlement.
Most European countries (and others around the world) don't prevent it though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multip...EFTA_countries

Its illogical to support jus sanguinis if you support free movement, as I suspect you do. Why should Patrick be allowed Irish citizenship just because he had a granny who was born there?
If Pavels father migrated to Britain why should he expect to be able to pass on his Polish citizenship to his son who is entitled to British citizenship too? Isn't he supposed to be 'as British as us' now? Its a privilege even to have a choice in the matter, never mind having your cake an d eating it!
How does supporting one make the other illogical? There's nothing wrong with someone maintaining their ancestral links and being British at the same time. It seems like you just resent other people having something you haven't got.
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Mair18919
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(Original post by JamesN88)
Most European countries (and others around the world) don't prevent it though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multip...EFTA_countries
LOL youre skirting over that one. Very few allow the no strings dual citizenship to foreigners that Britain does.
eg Bulgaria - Bulgarian citizens of descent can have dual citizenship, but foreigners wanting to naturalize must renounce their old citizenship.
Racist hey?
:eek:
Its madness to do it, brings us no benefits whatsoever, and is unjust when it is not reciprocated for British citizens in their homelands.
In fact it's actively bad for British people since its offering migrants an attractive temptation that other countries do not, and its encouraging immigrants to divide their loyalties and not to commit totally to Britain.

Can you think of any benefits for Britain in offering this remarkable bonus to foreigners, as for the life of me I can't?

How does supporting one make the other illogical? There's nothing wrong with someone maintaining their ancestral links and being British at the same time.
Its illogical because most people who favour loose or even open borders argue that citizenship should be primarily a matter of jus solis NOT jus sanguinis i.e that its birth place and residency should determine your rights to citizenship not your genetic heritage. It is utterly hypocritical to claim that all British citizens should have equal rights if those who have foreign genetic admix are privileged over those who do not.:eek: The corollary is that those who are ethnically British and have no 'divided loyalty' can also argue for ethnic privileges over those who are admixed or maybe not genetically British.

It seems like you just resent other people having something you haven't got.
I absolutely resent injustice.
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prazzyjazzy
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*nervous laughter*
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JamesN88
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(Original post by Mair18919)
LOL youre skirting over that one. Very few allow the no strings dual citizenship to foreigners that Britain does.
eg Bulgaria - Bulgarian citizens of descent can have dual citizenship, but foreigners wanting to naturalize must renounce their old citizenship.
Racist hey?
:eek:
Its madness to do it, brings us no benefits whatsoever, and is unjust when it is not reciprocated for British citizens in their homelands.
In fact it's actively bad for British people since its offering migrants an attractive temptation that other countries do not, and its encouraging immigrants to divide their loyalties and not to commit totally to Britain.

Can you think of any benefits for Britain in offering this remarkable bonus to foreigners, as for the life of me I can't?



Its illogical because most people who favour loose or even open borders argue that citizenship should be primarily a matter of jus solis NOT jus sanguinis i.e that its birth place and residency should determine your rights to citizenship not your genetic heritage. It is utterly hypocritical to claim that all British citizens should have equal rights if those who have foreign genetic admix are privileged over those who do not.:eek: The corollary is that those who are ethnically British and have no 'divided loyalty' can also argue for ethnic privileges over those who are admixed or maybe not genetically British.


I absolutely resent injustice.
I haven't skirted over anything, you made a claim that clearly isn't true, which you've now amended to "no strings dual citizenship"(which varies between countries). I also didn't claim anything was racist.

I also don't see it as a massive benefit or a negative, rather a neutral issue with no real reason to oppose, other than your unsubstantiated claims that it creates disloyalty and attracts migrants.
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Mair18919
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you made a claim that clearly isn't true, which you've now amended to "no strings dual citizenship"(which varies between countries). I also didn't claim anything was racist.
No I made a claim about the rest of the world and you chose to narrow it down to the EU to try to back your line that we should offer it.
It was in response to your 'majority of the EU ' argument I pointed out that most of them do tolerate dual citizenship, but only in more restricted form, such as the , arguably racist, ' jus sanguinis' form of Bulgaria, privileging genetic Bulgarians over Bulgarian residents.
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Mair18919
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I also don't see it as a massive benefit or a negative, rather a neutral issue with no real reason to oppose, other than your unsubstantiated claims that it creates disloyalty and attracts migrants.
Its certainly a logical assumption that a bonus such as this attracts migrants! It must, as most migrants do take advantage of it. Its also common sense that it cements psychological links with the homeland as well as practical (voting in their homelands for example).
Clearly many countries share this view;

  • in Egypt dual citizens cannot be elected to Parliament;
  • in Armenia dual citizens cannot vote or be elected to Parliament;
  • in Israel, to be sworn in as a member of Parliament, you must renounce your other citizenship before taking your seat in the Knesset;
  • in Australia, dual citizens cannot be elected to the Federal parliament;
  • in New Zealand, dual citizens may be elected to Parliament, but MPs once elected may not voluntarily become a citizen of another country, or take any act to have their foreign nationality recognised such as applying for a foreign passport. However, the only person to recently violate this, Harry Duynhoven, was protected by the passage of retroactive law;
  • in the United States, only natural-born citizens may become President or Vice President, although naturalized citizens can hold any other seat in office.
  • In the Philippines, dual citizens may not run for any local elective office.



No surprise that you cant think of a single benefit for Britain!
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