Loony Marine Le Pen is at it again Watch

Asolare
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Astonishing that people in France even support someone this extreme but hey.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38249570

French far-right leader Marine Le Pen has called for an end to free education for foreign children.

In a speech in Paris, the National Front's candidate in the 2017 presidential race next spring said she had nothing against foreigners.

"But I tell them: if you come to our country don't expect to be taken care of, to be looked after, that your children will be educated without charge," she said.

"No more playtime," she added.

Ms Le Pen is widely expected to be one of two candidates to reach the second and final round of the election in May.

...

Under French law dating back to 1881, free primary education is a basic right for all children.
"I mean I don't have anything against foreigners but you shouldn't be entitled to a fundamental right in this country.", normal extreme-right rhetoric again.
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Aladdinsaaane
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(Original post by Inexorably)
"I mean I don't have anything against foreigners but you shouldn't be entitled to a fundamental right in this country."
Under Marine Le Pen's France, the country will no longer be in the EU. This means that not only will foreigners' children not have a fundamental right to education in the country, it means they won't have a fundamental right to even step foot in the country, therefore your point is not even relevant.

If the French vote her in (which they very likely will) then it's their choice if they do not wish to fund the education of non-citizens' children (this choice by the way, is their fundamental right) With this in mind, people who cannot afford to pay for their children's education in France should not go and live in France. It's just common sense.

Also, Marine Le Pen isn't extreme right wing. She is a total commie in economic terms for example.
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sleepysnooze
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all I can say is that not only does that just sound far too extreme but it makes no sense - surely if people from the middle east, a vastly less civilised part of the world, come to the west and their kids don't get education, they are surely going to be less likely to integrate and assimilate into society because their uncivilised family values will be all they really have...and they'll be poorer and hence more likely to be criminals. so clearly it's counterproductive *and* pretty unethical.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by sleepysnooze)
all I can say is that not only does that just sound far too extreme but it makes no sense - surely if people from the middle east, a vastly less civilised part of the world, come to the west and their kids don't get education, they are surely going to be less likely to integrate and assimilate into society, and they'll be poorer and hence more likely to be criminals.
Which will make it even easier for these fascists in liberal clothing to stoke anti immigrant and anti-foreign sentiment. They can then expose more of their fascist routes to a population more open to those kind of ideas.

They do not want assimilation. They don;t want them here full stop but they have to get by in a much more liberal and tolerant world so they adopt the liberal Orwellian language as code for what they really want.

It's win win for them.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Aladdinsaaane)

Also, Marine Le Pen isn't extreme right wing. She is a total commie in economic terms for example.
It's fascism. It's all about the nation. Everything is about strengthening the nation and the nation comes first above all else. Capitalism is only tolerated as long as it is in line with the the far rights ultra nationalism. They are not scared of regulating capitalism and are generally very apposed to liberal metropolitan capitalism (the liberal elite etc). So yes, statist economic programs that would not be out of place in a leftist (bar the racism, it is only for the natives) government feature heavily in the far right. After all, fascists gained lots of support from working people who felt left behind or wanted more control/wealth. The modern right wing populists also require support from working people screwed by capitalism. So they provide leftist like economic programs, which is especially effective when the modern centre left is against those things and is all cosmopolitan. They fight the centre left on two fronts over the support of the working classes.
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BasicMistake
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(Original post by sleepysnooze)
all I can say is that not only does that just sound far too extreme but it makes no sense - surely if people from the middle east, a vastly less civilised part of the world, come to the west and their kids don't get education, they are surely going to be less likely to integrate and assimilate into society because their uncivilised family values will be all they really have...and they'll be poorer and hence more likely to be criminals. so clearly it's counterproductive *and* pretty unethical.
Le Pen has had to moderate her position by saying that she was only ever talking about illegal immigrants. She probably realised that the idea was stupid and incredibly short-sighted.
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Aladdinsaaane
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(Original post by sleepysnooze)
surely if people from the middle east
You do realize that under Marine Le Pen, people won't come form the Middle East?

(LOL I made a typo in this post and wanted to edit it but then I realized it is even more accurate this way...)
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Aladdinsaaane
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
It's fascism. It's all about the nation. Everything is about strengthening the nation and the nation comes first above all else. Capitalism is only tolerated as long as it is in line with the the far rights ultra nationalism. They are not scared of regulating capitalism and are generally very apposed to liberal metropolitan capitalism (the liberal elite etc). So yes, statist economic programs that would not be out of place in a leftist (bar the racism, it is only for the natives) government feature heavily in the far right. After all, fascists gained lots of support from working people who felt left behind or wanted more control/wealth. The modern right wing populists also require support from working people screwed by capitalism. So they provide leftist like economic programs, which is especially effective when the modern centre left is against those things and is all cosmopolitan. They fight the centre left on two fronts over the support of the working classes.
None of these are indicative of fascism. It's just indicative of socialism.


(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
After all, fascists gained lots of support from working people who felt left behind or wanted more control/wealth.
So basically Labour is a fascist party.
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Aladdinsaaane
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(Original post by Inexorably)
Astonishing that people in France even support someone this extreme but hey.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38249570



"I mean I don't have anything against foreigners but you shouldn't be entitled to a fundamental right in this country.", normal extreme-right rhetoric again.
You have also conveniently failed to include the fact that she has clarified that this would only apply to children of illegal immigrants or legal foreigners who do not pay into the tax system.
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Aladdinsaaane
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
They do not want assimilation. They don;t want them here full stop
Exactly. Muslims don't want assimilation therefore the FN doesn't want them in France. You've got that right.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Aladdinsaaane)
None of these are indicative of fascism. It's just indicative of socialism.

So basically Labour is a fascist party.
No. Socialism is based around class differences and is internationalist. Class is more important than national differences for a socialist which is totally hostile to ultra nationalism. It also rejects other differences such as race etc. Again, that goes against the racism and xenophobia of fascism. Of course you get mutations of political views. Hence national socialism. When there are strong working class movements a good way to adopt them into your fascist movement is to invent national socialism.

Well Oswald Mosley was from the Labour party so it has the potential to be. But fascism attracted/attracts people from all schools of political thought. Most people believe in nations to a large extent. But that doesn't make them all fascists.

Anyway how can a party which is currently portrayed as part of the cosmopolitan liberal elite by the new populist right be fascist? They are seen as cucks by the moronic Alt-right (borderline fascists).
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Aladdinsaaane)
Exactly. Muslims don't want assimilation therefore the FN doesn't want them in France. You've got that right.
I mean the FN do not want Muslims to assimilate. Not that Muslims don't want to.
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Aladdinsaaane
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
No. Socialism is based around class differences and is internationalist.
Socialism seeks to reduce class differences and you can be a nationalist and a socialist at the same time, have you ever heard of the SNP...... or the FN?

(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Class is more important than national differences for a socialist which is totally hostile to ultra nationalism.
Are Australia who have a points based immigration system and who have stopped the stream of boat people coming in also ultra nationalistic?

(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
It also rejects other differences such as race etc.
So does the FN and Marine Le Pen. Go and read up about 'civic nationalism'.



(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Again, that goes against the racism and xenophobia of fascism.
That's nice but Marine Le Pen has never said anything racist nor is there anything racist in the FN's policies. She just wants to give priority to French citizens, whatever colour they are. You could argue that she is xenophobic, but given the state of France right now, that's more like being xenorealistic than phobic at the moment if you ask me. It's better than if she was a cultural and moral relativist like the leaders of the EU who have allowed the situation in France and the UK etc go this far.


(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Of course you get mutations of political views. Hence national socialism. When there are strong working class movements a good way to adopt them into your fascist movement is to invent national socialism.
Or maybe when you have a neverending amount of people from a different civilization who are refusing to assimilate, people who actually have to live among these newcomers and face the consequences of the erosion of social cohesion are getting tired of the 'multicultural' (which I call parallel-civilizationalism) ******** and the moral high ground that people sitting in the ivory tower of the EU parliament place themselves on without having any idea what the **** they are doing to the lives of ordinary people. All just for the sake of a certain ideology without any consideration of this ideology's consequences.




(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Most people believe in nations to a large extent. But that doesn't make them all fascists.
Exactly, it just means that desperate times call for desperate measures.
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Aladdinsaaane
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
I mean the FN do not want Muslims to assimilate. Not that Muslims don't want to.
I was intentionally twisting your words to make it more of an accurate statement.
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Wōden
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Everything is about strengthening the nation.
Monsterous!
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Aladdinsaaane)
Are Australia who have a points based immigration system and who have stopped the stream of boat people coming in also ultra nationalistic?
I said no such thing. I was explaining why an internationalist philosophy such as socialism is obviously going to be enemy of fascists who are ultra-nationalists.

Also you do not join the FN if you do not like the history of that party and its historical routes. They have just re branded and have had to make big compromises if they want to get anywhere politically. Hence the commitment to democracy and their supposed "civic nationalism" as you call it. In the right conditions I don't see why they wouldn't go full fascism if they could get away with it. I want people like that to be as far away from power as possible. I don't trust people who look at fascism and like what they see. But with the current trajectory of politics right now they are getting more power.
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Aladdinsaaane
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
I said no such thing. I was explaining why an internationalist philosophy such as socialism is obviously going to be enemy of fascists who are ultra-nationalists.
Then Marine Len Pen is clearly not a fascist considering her socialist manifesto nd the fact that she plans on actually doing things democratic things such as referendums on EU membership, so that they can get rid of the ever-growing populaton who are establishing fascis ideologies in France, namely the Islamists from the desolte prairies of the Middle East.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Aladdinsaaane)
Or maybe when you have a neverending amount of people from a different civilization who are refusing to assimilate, people who actually have to live among these newcomers and face the consequences of the erosion of social cohesion are getting tired of the 'multicultural' (which I call parallel-civilizationalism) ******** and the moral high ground that people sitting in the ivory tower of the EU parliament place themselves on without having any idea what the **** they are doing to the lives of ordinary people. All just for the sake of a certain ideology without any consideration of this ideology's consequences.
What exactly do you know about it?

I have to live with people who have such strong opinions like yours who have never actually been in direct contact with any of these problems and live in a prominently white English middle class suburbia.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Aladdinsaaane)
Then Marine Len Pen is clearly not a fascist considering her socialist manifesto nd the fact that she plans on actually doing things democratic things such as referendums on EU membership, so that they can get rid of the ever-growing populaton who are establishing fascis ideologies in France, namely the Islamists from the desolte prairies of the Middle East.
See my edit.

Do you think communists who are adopting more moderate positions in order to win in Spain are no longer communists? Unlike you I suspect I actually don't mind or even prefer someone who with communists sympathies or is actually a communist. So I support Podemos.

You also do not need to be an actual fascists to be evil either. You can borrow watered down aspects of it and still be an awful person.
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Aladdinsaaane
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
See my edit.

Do you think communists who are adopting more moderate positions in order to win in Spain are no longer communists?

You also do not need to be an actual fascists to be evil either. You can borrow watered down aspects of it and still be an awful person.
This is simply not a valid argument.

Political parties change and evolve over decades.

I don't know much about Spanish politics so I can't comment on a specific party in Spain.

The people who are running the FN today are not the same people who were running it when Jean Marie Le Pen was the leader, their policies are not the same, the people voting for them are not the same, narrow group of BNP-esque idiots. What do you think is going to happen when Marine Le Pen becomes president? Do you think she is going to start lining up people in wagons and gassing them in the chamber? Is she perhaps going to order the construction of Hitler statues in Paris? LOL.

There are lots of parties that have an unsavoury past yet they are mainstream parties today and aren't bringing about the end of the world. The Socialist Party in my own country, which is now a centre-left party was born out of the Communist Party and they haven't tried establishing a communist regime even though they have had plenty of opportunity during their years in power...

I'm not an FN supporter and I wouldn't vote for Marine Le Pen if I was French, but the Nazi-hysteria of the Left is a joke, the liberals have completely hijacked the words 'racist' 'nazi' etc, nobody takes this **** seriously anymore. People want to live in their own countries with their own people, not in this dystopian MultiKulti anarchism that is going on.
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