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    (Original post by GraduateMedic)
    I think Michael Moore should be put in charge. He is so intelligent and a worthwhile human*

    *not necessary my views - waiting for a caustic response
    *shouts* Vienna!!!
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    (Original post by GraduateMedic)
    I think Michael Moore should be put in charge. He is so intelligent and a worthwhile human*

    *not necessary my views - waiting for a caustic response
    hehe, he may be intelligent(although why he covers it up i dont know, maybe to blend in with the working folk?) and maybe a worthwhile human being, but the world would be a grim place with Moore at its helm. he is the epitome of a capitalist system. a man with little more than his own hands for resource makes a fortune for himself through hard work and the choices he makes.
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    *prods Vienna*


    Psst - there's a Bush Bashing thread over in chat.
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    (Original post by sashh)
    *prods Vienna*


    Psst - there's a Bush Bashing thread over in chat.
    lol cue Jaws music
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    (Original post by USUK1)
    I've just noticed that the US really should tell those who criticize us to stop being stupid. I have dual American/British citizenship and have lived in England all my life. I am currently working on John Kerry’s presidential team and have realized the hypocrisy of European arguments about the USA. We (the USA) have liberated Iraq and Afghanistan and even though 25,000 civilians are dead (which is terrible) 50 million people are free. Afghanis are about to vote for the first time, Iraqis are rebuilding schools and democratic institutions and potentially millions have been saved from murder in the future by Saddam or the Taliban or in the US or UK by Al Qaeda. Apparently though, this is bad!! Currently Sudan is left at the hands of murdering thugs and yet the UN is too afraid to even impose a threat of force! Only the US is arguing for military assistance and is ignored by the rest of the world! In terms of farm subsidies, the US offered to cut all of theirs worth $120 billion and huge political expense. The Europeans only agreed to a part way plan to protect their own interests. If America was listened to here we could save millions of farmers in LEDC's and construct a fairer, safer world where all people have the opportunity for trade and prosperity free of fear.

    To the critics of America - look in the mirror, stop being dumb
    U.S. foreign policy is a big lie, im telling ya. Those who think it is all about freedom and democracy is got thier head so far up thier own ass. I have looked into american foreign policy extensivly. Its not about freedom and democracy, its about american interests. The freedom and democracy is thrown in to make it all look acceptable. Every war america has been in, the freedom and democracy is praised and spoken to its people.

    now i dont feel like finding all the limks that prove this, ive done it about 50 times now, but hey, i feel that i must show the truth to every person that america looks after its own interest way before it looks after the people they "liberate"
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    (Original post by canuck)
    U.S. foreign policy is a big lie, im telling ya. Those who think it is all about freedom and democracy is got thier head so far up thier own ass. I have looked into american foreign policy extensivly. Its not about freedom and democracy, its about american interests. The freedom and democracy is thrown in to make it all look acceptable. Every war america has been in, the freedom and democracy is praised and spoken to its people.

    now i dont feel like finding all the limks that prove this, ive done it about 50 times now, but hey, i feel that i must show the truth to every person that america looks after its own interest way before it looks after the people they "liberate"

    oo for those who havent seen all ready take a good look and read these links well, trust me, the are legitimate proof

    http://www.warskill.com/dictators.html
    http://www.donaldtrump.avvid.ca/
    http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.p...473&mode=print

    well, thats enough, dont want to make vienna95 look too bad
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    (Original post by canuck)
    U.S. foreign policy is a big lie, im telling ya. Those who think it is all about freedom and democracy is got thier head so far up thier own ass. I have looked into american foreign policy extensivly. Its not about freedom and democracy, its about american interests.
    I and most Americans would be surprised if it was anything else. After all, it would definately be a world first.
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    (Original post by canuck)
    oo for those who havent seen all ready take a good look and read these links well, trust me, the are legitimate proof

    http://www.warskill.com/dictators.html
    http://www.donaldtrump.avvid.ca/
    http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.p...473&mode=print

    well, thats enough, dont want to make vienna95 look too bad
    hehe, proof? of what? and why would I look bad? funny chap.
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    (Original post by USUK1)
    I've just noticed that the US really should tell those who criticize us to stop being stupid. I have dual American/British citizenship and have lived in England all my life. I am currently working on John Kerry’s presidential team and have realized the hypocrisy of European arguments about the USA. We (the USA) have liberated Iraq and Afghanistan and even though 25,000 civilians are dead (which is terrible) 50 million people are free. Afghanis are about to vote for the first time, Iraqis are rebuilding schools and democratic institutions and potentially millions have been saved from murder in the future by Saddam or the Taliban or in the US or UK by Al Qaeda. Apparently though, this is bad!! Currently Sudan is left at the hands of murdering thugs and yet the UN is too afraid to even impose a threat of force! Only the US is arguing for military assistance and is ignored by the rest of the world! In terms of farm subsidies, the US offered to cut all of theirs worth $120 billion and huge political expense. The Europeans only agreed to a part way plan to protect their own interests. If America was listened to here we could save millions of farmers in LEDC's and construct a fairer, safer world where all people have the opportunity for trade and prosperity free of fear.

    To the critics of America - look in the mirror, stop being dumb
    Can you tell Bush to invade China to liberate Tibet please.

    (Original post by calumc)
    The Iraquis are now "free"? Brilliant!!

    I know, why not make the US's next target the UK, where we are living in fear under a ruthless dictator, Mr Blair, who lied to the country to push us into a war most of us didn't want - costing us servicemen, husbands, wives, mothers, fathers and children - and afterwards, shaming the BBC in a biased report which caused the suicide of one man and resulted in the meaningless loss of many jobs.
    Reminds me of Cromwell

    (Original post by calumc)
    Or even better - why not make make the US target itself? Saddam Hussein was a threat to America and the world, but no more so than a man of George Bush's seemingly lacking intelligence being in charge of the most powerful country in the world, and with such resources that he could easily obtain WMD's. Heck, it was enough reason to go to war with Iraq, wasn't it?
    Another civil war? Would be interesting. Let's make Europe the isolationists then, then we can brag about power.

    (Original post by USUK1)
    I don't care if its good enough for you, you don't vote! Ha! It gives me so much pleasure that u and Biggles can't do anything about US policy.
    Actually I heard many Americans were annoyed with the British in the 1980s. Who was in power I wonder..... :rolleyes:

    And you won't have that tone if Britain remained the superpower of the world. You be continuously telling other countries how evil we are, just like one of our neighbours. But then again, I will have so much pleasure out of it because you can't vote
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    As far as american's are concern we know that american nation might be not againt Islam but those leaders of them are against us. Well coming back to the topic america always took its policies against the Muslims and against the Islam might they be taught in there schools about that.
    War on Afghanistan and Iraq is the answer for every thing . in iraq they donot find any weapons yet they attacked on Iraq. i will say why .. if you american say that they have weapons of mass distrucion then i will say america also have the weapons in there fields which are called weapons of Mass distruction and America is the Only Country who ever used every weapon he made Including weapons of mass distruction.....
    And american army is just sick beacuse they only like to have sex things in there life.. nothing to say about it you guys must seen the pics about humilating the Iraqi people and womens killing the inocent people.
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    Actually I can vote, I've got dual citizenship. But nice try anyway
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    Actually I heard many Americans were annoyed with the British in the 1980s. Who was in power I wonder..... :rolleyes:
    You heard wrong.
    Americans haven't been anti-British for over 100 years. Why would we be annoyed? Americans love the British.
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    (Original post by andi_bhatti)
    As far as american's are concern we know that american nation might be not againt Islam but those leaders of them are against us. Well coming back to the topic america always took its policies against the Muslims and against the Islam might they be taught in there schools about that.
    War on Afghanistan and Iraq is the answer for every thing . in iraq they donot find any weapons yet they attacked on Iraq. i will say why .. if you american say that they have weapons of mass distrucion then i will say america also have the weapons in there fields which are called weapons of Mass distruction and America is the Only Country who ever used every weapon he made Including weapons of mass distruction.....
    And american army is just sick beacuse they only like to have sex things in there life.. nothing to say about it you guys must seen the pics about humilating the Iraqi people and womens killing the inocent people.
    To suggest that US policy is anti-Islam is a little too far fetched, it is true that Muslims make up a very small percentage of the American vote (I read somewhere that there are less registered Muslim voters than voters of indeterminate sex in America) and therefore they may lack the political power of the so-called Jewish Lobby, Evangangelists etc.

    However easy it is to be cynical of US foreign policy I think it is incorrect to assume that merely because the last two US invasions have been in predominantly Muslim countries makes them wars 'against Islam'. To me it is it implicit in the fact that US foreign policy is now focusing on what they perceive to be the biggest threat to US security - The Middle East, and in fairness this is the most troubled politcal region at the moment and furthermore the values and principles of the region differ markedly from those of the west and particulaly the US. Thus making it easier to explain the 'liberation' of a people whose lives are governed in a completely alien way to that of the west.

    The situation is further antagonised by the importance of oil and oil prices to the success of western economic systems - it is difficult to believe that oil plays little importance to the US foreign policy decisions as the stabilisation of oil prices and continued supply is crucial for America. Irrespective of whether the Iraq invasion was actually motivated by oil (thats a different argument) the fact that Iraq is Islamic is unimportant.

    Depending on which way you look at it the conclusion is the same - if the war was about oil then it is irrelvant that Iraq is Islamic, If the war was about WMDS and the security of the US then the fact that Iraq was Islamic is also irrelvant. Furthermore, despite all the admistrations considerable post war failings, one thing they have not done is attempt to limit the possibility of freedom of religion in these countries and if anyhting they have increased this freedom.
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    (Original post by Made in the USA)
    You heard wrong.
    Americans haven't been anti-British for over 100 years. Why would we be annoyed? Americans love the British.

    im sorry, what about the seuz crises?

    When americans come to my country, they are confused on why we still use british symbols and some british heritage, they think canadians are just like americans.

    The american people as a whole, are lead to believe impearilism is awfull. They believe whenever they invade a country, they are liberating them.

    isnt this odd, when the british invaded a country, kingdom, ect, they thought they were liberating them too. The british brought education, peace, jobs, and were eventually bringing the native peoples into goverment. This was eventually brought down by the anti impearil americans. its funny how things change eh?
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    When Britain invaded countries it disrupted traditional ways of life but having overwhelming military force as its tool. Indeed it brought education etc, but it also fermented discontent and fragmented, poorly goverened nations.

    Look at Zimbabwe, Palestine, Sudan, etc.


    The US also adapts traditional values but does it with free market economies that inspire the support of the majority of the people. With these economies come freedom, personal and political responsibility and most importantly, the fabric for development in technology, industry and education.

    The US value system is one that garners the support of the native population, where as the British Empire imposed its value system.


    a good example of US influence needing the support of the people and having it is Mcdonalds and Starbucks. These organisations both have support of the people in the countries where they exist and so US values are both welcomed and successful in their existence.
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    (Original post by canuck)
    The american people as a whole, are lead to believe impearilism is awfull. They believe whenever they invade a country, they are liberating them.
    unless you can find me an example, they are liberating them. the US simply does not like the idea of being a colonial power.

    isnt this odd, when the british invaded a country, kingdom, ect, they thought they were liberating them too. The british brought education, peace, jobs, and were eventually bringing the native peoples into goverment. This was eventually brought down by the anti impearil americans. its funny how things change eh?
    hehe, the British thought they were bringing civilisation to these countries by means of ruling them and installing British society. the US liberates a country by imposing democracy and a government that will protect US interests and then leaves. the US couldnt give a stuff about setting up a Wal Mart chain in Mosul, much less establishing sovreignity over them! the British would now be attempting to strong arm their business on Iraqis, remove all Iraqi sovreignity, the Queen would be Iraqi head of state and they'd be driving on the left, posting letters in red boxes and be trading on Margaret Thatcher St.
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    (Original post by Made in the USA)
    You heard wrong.
    Americans haven't been anti-British for over 100 years. Why would we be annoyed? Americans love the British.
    You made it known that non-American citizens such as myself cannot have a say on US foreign policy as we cannot vote. Sure I understand this. However, I was told by one of my American friends that many Americans got fed up with Thatcher, presumably because she managed to stand up to Reagan and told him what to do so to speak. I don't really know this as some of it is before my time!

    If this is true, then non-American citizens are not so screwed over US foreign policy if you are British for example. You would be more screwed if you are French and German though.

    I was thinking more on the international context such as above. It's just a thought.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    hehe, the British thought they were bringing civilisation to these countries by means of ruling them and installing British society. the US liberates a country by imposing democracy and a government that will protect US interests and then leaves. the US couldnt give a stuff about setting up a Wal Mart chain in Mosul, much less establishing sovreignity over them! the British would now be attempting to strong arm their business on Iraqis, remove all Iraqi sovreignity, the Queen would be Iraqi head of state and they'd be driving on the left, posting letters in red boxes and be trading on Margaret Thatcher St.
    A century or two ago, perhaps- comparing modern-day American to Victorian Britain is hardly valid.

    In any case, when you consider that in addition to the UK, there are still 15 independent countries and several smaller territories within the British commonwealth with the Queen as head of state, it appears that despite your obvious negative interpretation many actually value their "britishness", imposed or otherwise. Gibraltar, for example, has been a British territory for around 300 years, and even in Spain's more recent attempts to "get it back", the people rejected the idea. Larger countries such as Australia/Canada could easily drop their British connections if they so wished, but I don't see it happening.

    Interestingly, I can't say I can think of any instances of those who have been "liberated" by the US holding on for so long, though I'll also admit I havn't really looked into the matter.
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    (Original post by calumc)
    Larger countries such as Australia/Canada could easily drop their British connections if they so wished, but I don't see it happening.
    I wouldn't have said Australia. Perhaps New Zealand.
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    (Original post by calumc)
    A century or two ago, perhaps- comparing modern-day American to Victorian Britain is hardly valid.


    In any case, when you consider that in addition to the UK, there are still 15 independent countries and several smaller territories within the British commonwealth with the Queen as head of state, it appears that despite your obvious negative interpretation many actually value their "britishness", imposed or otherwise. Gibraltar, for example, has been a British territory for around 300 years, and even in Spain's more recent attempts to "get it back", the people rejected the idea. Larger countries such as Australia/Canada could easily drop their British connections if they so wished, but I don't see it happening.
    there was no negativity implied. just an exaggeration to suit the distinction in terms. nonetheless, when a way of life has been imposed as the British empire was, those countries adopt what we see now to be their own. the Britishness of Gibraltar is being celebrated by generation old families who have grown up knowing no other way of life. the Britishness they celebrate is not that imposed on them, rather the evolution of Gibraltar and how they perceive being Gibraltaran to be. in much the same way, many of the Indians I know found the reinstated Indian place names to be an irritation, see nothing British in their habits or manners and dont feel speaking English is by order of Her Majesty.

    Interestingly, I can't say I can think of any instances of those who have been "liberated" by the US holding on for so long, though I'll also admit I havn't really looked into the matter.
    there really isnt, bar a few miniscule islands.
 
 
 
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