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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    Actually, religion has been used to condone various persecution, murders, torture, genocides. It is probably the most dangerous thing in history. It is not harmless.

    Besides, why the hell pit Alcohol Vs Islam? That's dumb. It's not like they're mutually exclusive.
    i think u shuld chck out islams views on murder and its penalty for it b4 saying that it condones it and other crimes , ud be pleasantly surprised
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    [QUOTE=infekt][QUOTE=fishpaste]Actually, religion has been used to condone various persecution, murders, torture, genocides. It is not harmless.

    no religion would ever condone crimes ... its the fukced up follweres like saddam etc who manipulate it to do so ....
    And no alcohol brewer promotes beating people senseless at 2am on a saturday night. That was my point.
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    Islam because you just said it was
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    (Original post by infekt)
    i think u shuld chck out islams views on murder and its penalty for it b4 saying that it condones it and other crimes , ud be pleasantly surprised
    Would you like to tell me what it is? And why it's relevant?
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    And no alcohol brewer promotes beating people senseless at 2am on a saturday night. That was my point.
    so then u agree with me tht its the follwer/drinker that abuses it
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    Would you like to tell me what it is? And why it's relevant?
    coz as u said ... religion condones murder ... would jus like to emphasize how strongly islam opposes that ...
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    (Original post by infekt)
    so then u agree with me tht its the follwer/drinker that abuses it
    No. Because Islam promotes blind faith, submission, more controversially homophobia, sexism and various other backwards outdated ideas.
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    (Original post by infekt)
    coz as u said ... religion condones murder ... would jus like to emphasize how strongly islam opposes that ...
    No. I said religion is used to condone murder. There's a critical difference.
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    No. Because Islam promotes blind faith, submission, more controversially homophobia, sexism and various other backwards outdated ideas.
    blind faith and submission ? ... id really like to c a valid argument for those two .... as for sexism islam views each sex equally .... simple example and this is in the bible too ...

    adam and eve , eve was created from a rib rite ... y not any other part ? .... onlyt god knows the true reason , but wat i heard an islamic scholar say once ( a convert btw ) tht its because the rib is the center of the body ... and he wanted to show tht a woman stands by the side not above a man nor below him ....

    islam certainly does not promote sexism
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    as far as homophobia .... did god really create men and women so men could sleep with other men and women could sleep with women ... seen any animals do tht ? .... its just not natural ....

    man and woman were created to preserve humanity , how do gays and lesbians continue the human race ... they cant bear n e offspring ...
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    No. Because Islam promotes blind faith, submission, more controversially homophobia, sexism and various other backwards outdated ideas.
    Sounds a bit like a pokey church in the Vatican to me.
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    (Original post by infekt)
    blind faith and submission ? ... id really like to c a valid argument for those two ....
    Blind faith - To be a muslim you have to believe Mohammed was the last prophet. To do this requires blind faith because there is no more evidence to say that he was the last prophet than me.

    Submission - Islam IS submission! Islam "submission to the will of Allah".

    as for sexism islam views each sex equally .... simple example and this is in the bible too ...
    And yet every single translation I've ever read condones beating of women. What about homophobia?

    adam and eve , eve was created from a rib rite ... y not any other part ? .... onlyt god knows the true reason , but wat i heard an islamic scholar say once ( a convert btw ) tht its because the rib is the center of the body ... and he wanted to show tht a woman stands by the side not above a man nor below him ....
    Okay. This is an anecdote and does not impact upon what the quran or 'Allah' says about women. Out of interest, do you wear a headscarf? What do you think of that?
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    (Original post by infekt)
    as far as homophobia .... did god really create men and women so men could sleep with other men and women could sleep with women ... seen any animals do tht ? .... its just not natural ....

    man and woman were created to preserve humanity , how do gays and lesbians continue the human race ... they cant bear n e offspring ...
    Niether can baron people. Does god think they're unnatural?
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    [QUOTE=fishpaste]

    Submission - Islam IS submission! Islam "submission to the will of Allah".

    [QUOTE]
    islam means peace ... not submission ...

    headscarves , im a guy so i dont wear one ... but i dont see the harm in it ... neither does my mom wear one , neither do my female friends , but i dont see n e harm in wearing one .... if someone i knew wanted to wear it it wouldnt bother me . there are valid reasons y its RECOMMENDED to wear one . its a very big issue ... ill send u a link to a website if ur interested .

    id really like to see even one single sentence in the quran where it says tht hitting a woman is allowed ... i can however show u texts where it says tht a man who hits his wife should be stoned to death ...

    get ur facts straight b4 debating on a topic
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    Niether can baron people. Does god think they're unnatural?
    if they are barren its god will they are , he might have sumthing else planned for them , plans only he knows .... at least a man and a woman can produce offspring .... there is no way two men low sperm counts or otherwise could ever concieve ....
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    grrr i despise religion
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    Blind faith - To be a muslim you have to believe Mohammed was the last prophet. To do this requires blind faith because there is no more evidence to say that he was the last prophet than me.
    ?
    tht argument is valid for every single religion ... do christians believe in the quran ? .. no ... y ? ... its blind faith isnt it ... y dont jews believe muhammad was rite ? ... he could be ....
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    islam means peace ... not submission ...
    Any evidence? It comes from "aslamer" the infinitive "to surrender." I can hardly see it suddenly transforming into "peace" when it becomes Islam.

    id really like to see even one single sentence in the quran where it says tht hitting a woman is allowed ... i can however show u texts where it says tht a man who hits his wife should be stoned to death ...

    get ur facts straight b4 debating on a topic
    Let's see your passage, here's mine (copy and paste job using 6 different translations as I can't read arabic).

    RODWELL [1]: "Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which God has gifted the one above the other, and on account of the outlay they make from their substance for them. Virtuous women are obedient, careful, during the husband's absence, because God has of them been careful. But chide those for whose refractoriness you have cause to fear; remove them into beds apart, and scourge them: but if they are obedient to you, then seek not occasion against them: verily, God is High, Great!"



    ['Refractoriness' means hard or impossible to manage, stubbornly disobedient'].





    DAWOOD [2]: "Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme."





    PICKTHALL [3]: "Men are in charge of women, because Allah has made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah has guarded. As for those from whom you fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great."



    ARBERRY [4]: "Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for God's guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them. If they then obey you, look not for any way against them; God is All high, All great."





    SHAKIR [5]: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in their sleeping places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.





    ALI [6]: "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whom part you fear disloyalty and ill conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance) for Allah is Most High, Great (above you all).
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    (Original post by infekt)
    if they are barren its god will they are , he might have sumthing else planned for them , plans only he knows .... at least a man and a woman can produce offspring .... there is no way two men low sperm counts or otherwise could ever concieve ....
    God's will they're homosexual then? No. They're declared unnatural. There's no damn difference, Islam is just being bigoted and outdated on the issue.
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    (Original post by infekt)
    tht argument is valid for every single religion ... do christians believe in the quran ? .. no ... y ? ... its blind faith isnt it ... y dont jews believe muhammad was rite ? ... he could be ....
    I'm not defending these religions. I'm attacking Islam. Just because the christians and the jews are also wrong, doesn't make muslims right.
 
 
 
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