The Student Room Group

Paying back college course fee's

Hi there,
I am asking this question for someone else, my son, who has buried his head in the sand and he has not done anything about the problem he now finds himself in. I want to give you the background information so you gain a better insight and understanding.
Dan moved schools to another 6th form following his then girlfriend but the relationship broke down in the first term. Dan hated his new school, spoilt kids with appalling attitudes to 'outsiders' in the school. He became to resent going to school, fell behind with his studies and had poor AS grades so redid his first year again.
During this time his dad was being treated for cancer. Dan lost his dad to cancer in 2014 while he was studying his A levels; he didn't get great grades but had studied Mathematics, Physics and Biology, his main strengths at school. Lots of other little things happened too (but big things to Dan) which left Dan with a negative attitude of himself and life. Very angry and quite obviously missing his dad.

Dan had worked in a hotel while he was studying his A levels and after doing bar work where he still works now.
It took his family and friends over two years to persuade Dan he needed to move on to a career, gain skills, he is very bright and we guided and advised where we could. It wasn't until this year, while his family were away on holiday, Dan took the step of going for an interview at a local college to study an access course to engineering. The co-ordinator recommended Dan to do the foundation degree instead because he felt Dan had the ability even though he had no direct experience in the engineering field. His family were delighted.

Dan missed the first enrollment week but went to the second week up until the last week of half term, so 5 weeks in all. The course was one 9 hour day per week for 2 years.
Dan had told us each week how much he loved studying Mathematics and science's again but Dan described how a couple of the lecturers asked students to use scenario type questions to find solutions. Dan said they always seemed to choose me, even though each day I tell more than one of them, I can't do that because I don't work in engineering. Dan was the only two in a group of 20 who did not work in or have experience in engineering. Each passing week Dan seemed less enthusiastic, saying how much these certain lecturers were upsetting him. Dan said I tell them every day, sometimes three times.

On the last day of term Dan came home and told us what had happened. Dan had asked the lecturer to clarify an equation written on the board as Dan felt the answer was incorrect. The lecture the started to ask the class as a whole to bring a topic back to the work place to find the solution. Of course he turned to Dan and asked him again;
Dan was shaking with anger and replied, "you know I work in a pub".
"Well it begs the question as to why you are here then?", the lecturer replied.
Shaking with silent anger Dan watched the other students turn to look at Dan, he described as they lowered their heads to face the desk.
Dan answered the lecturer back by saying, "which is why I am here so I can stop working in a pub Sir". Later In the midst of another conversation the lecturer turned to Dan and said, "yes you have a point".

So angry was Dan that he went straight to the course co-ordinator and told him what had happened and the background. He told Dan to put it in an email and he would follow the complaint up. "But I am surprised because we have very positive reviews back from students about this lecturer", the co-ordinator replied.
I telephoned the co-ordinator but I could only leave a message, I asked him to call me urgently I was concerned Dan would not come back to the course again; I asked him to talk to Dan to help prevent him leaving.

I left another message for the course co-ordinator, expressing my concern that Dan had made his mind up to leave already.
I left a third message for this co-ordinator telling him the difficulties Dan had been going through which had affected his confidence so much but how delighted we all when Dan had made this huge step, by himself too, he did the back ground reading, booked his interview and went while his family were away on holiday. And now because this lecturer decided Dan wasn't good enough for the course, humiliated Dan in front of his classmates and not just on one occasion. And there's me thinking teachers/tutors etc were meant to nurture, encourage and motivate students.

Another confidence knock for Dan, He was angry, disappointed and put off from any further education, college, uni anything.

Dan did not go back to college after half term and did not send the email. He felt their was no point, nothing would be done anyway. He did not speak to the co-ordinator again.

Dan has now been sent a bill for £4850 in course fee's. What should we do now? Is he bound to pay this, given what has happened? If the co-ordinator confirm's to payroll that Dan had finished in week 5? Is there a cooling off period?
I want to book to see the CAB next week, try to sort it out before the college breaks up.
Dan did not sign any papers but he does remember ticking a box on an on screen questionnaire.
I would be grateful to any of you who can help with advise please?

Thank you.
Reply 1
Cooling off period varies, but is rarely longer than 2 weeks.

When you see CAB, try to avoid over-dramatising things or they won't take you seriously. Stick to the facts and avoid fictional narrative flourishes like "shaking with silent anger". You weren't there, so don't make it sound like you were as it will undermine your credibility. You only have Dan's word for what went on. Maybe it would be better if he dealt with CAB himself. This is, after all, his debt and not yours.
Reply 2
Original post by Klix88
Cooling off period varies, but is rarely longer than 2 weeks.

When you see CAB, try to avoid over-dramatising things or they won't take you seriously. Stick to the facts and avoid fictional narrative flourishes like "shaking with silent anger". You weren't there, so don't make it sound like you were as it will undermine your credibility. You only have Dan's word for what went on. Maybe it would be better if he dealt with CAB himself. This is, after all, his debt and not yours.

Hi,
Yes thanks for the reply.
Points useful, if he'd got on and got a student loan quicker at least the debt could be paid back slowly but it's irrelevant now. I suppose I feel somewhat responsible because I've been encouraging Dan. Well I need to learn lessons from it too. Keep out, let him find his own way.

Thanks again.
Original post by fordee
Hi there,
I am asking this question for someone else, my son, who has buried his head in the sand and he has not done anything about the problem he now finds himself in. I want to give you the background information so you gain a better insight and understanding.
Dan moved schools to another 6th form following his then girlfriend but the relationship broke down in the first term. Dan hated his new school, spoilt kids with appalling attitudes to 'outsiders' in the school. He became to resent going to school, fell behind with his studies and had poor AS grades so redid his first year again.
During this time his dad was being treated for cancer. Dan lost his dad to cancer in 2014 while he was studying his A levels; he didn't get great grades but had studied Mathematics, Physics and Biology, his main strengths at school. Lots of other little things happened too (but big things to Dan) which left Dan with a negative attitude of himself and life. Very angry and quite obviously missing his dad.

Dan had worked in a hotel while he was studying his A levels and after doing bar work where he still works now.
It took his family and friends over two years to persuade Dan he needed to move on to a career, gain skills, he is very bright and we guided and advised where we could. It wasn't until this year, while his family were away on holiday, Dan took the step of going for an interview at a local college to study an access course to engineering. The co-ordinator recommended Dan to do the foundation degree instead because he felt Dan had the ability even though he had no direct experience in the engineering field. His family were delighted.

Dan missed the first enrollment week but went to the second week up until the last week of half term, so 5 weeks in all. The course was one 9 hour day per week for 2 years.
Dan had told us each week how much he loved studying Mathematics and science's again but Dan described how a couple of the lecturers asked students to use scenario type questions to find solutions. Dan said they always seemed to choose me, even though each day I tell more than one of them, I can't do that because I don't work in engineering. Dan was the only two in a group of 20 who did not work in or have experience in engineering. Each passing week Dan seemed less enthusiastic, saying how much these certain lecturers were upsetting him. Dan said I tell them every day, sometimes three times.

On the last day of term Dan came home and told us what had happened. Dan had asked the lecturer to clarify an equation written on the board as Dan felt the answer was incorrect. The lecture the started to ask the class as a whole to bring a topic back to the work place to find the solution. Of course he turned to Dan and asked him again;
Dan was shaking with anger and replied, "you know I work in a pub".
"Well it begs the question as to why you are here then?", the lecturer replied.
Shaking with silent anger Dan watched the other students turn to look at Dan, he described as they lowered their heads to face the desk.
Dan answered the lecturer back by saying, "which is why I am here so I can stop working in a pub Sir". Later In the midst of another conversation the lecturer turned to Dan and said, "yes you have a point".

So angry was Dan that he went straight to the course co-ordinator and told him what had happened and the background. He told Dan to put it in an email and he would follow the complaint up. "But I am surprised because we have very positive reviews back from students about this lecturer", the co-ordinator replied.
I telephoned the co-ordinator but I could only leave a message, I asked him to call me urgently I was concerned Dan would not come back to the course again; I asked him to talk to Dan to help prevent him leaving.

I left another message for the course co-ordinator, expressing my concern that Dan had made his mind up to leave already.
I left a third message for this co-ordinator telling him the difficulties Dan had been going through which had affected his confidence so much but how delighted we all when Dan had made this huge step, by himself too, he did the back ground reading, booked his interview and went while his family were away on holiday. And now because this lecturer decided Dan wasn't good enough for the course, humiliated Dan in front of his classmates and not just on one occasion. And there's me thinking teachers/tutors etc were meant to nurture, encourage and motivate students.

Another confidence knock for Dan, He was angry, disappointed and put off from any further education, college, uni anything.

Dan did not go back to college after half term and did not send the email. He felt their was no point, nothing would be done anyway. He did not speak to the co-ordinator again.

Dan has now been sent a bill for £4850 in course fee's. What should we do now? Is he bound to pay this, given what has happened? If the co-ordinator confirm's to payroll that Dan had finished in week 5? Is there a cooling off period?
I want to book to see the CAB next week, try to sort it out before the college breaks up.
Dan did not sign any papers but he does remember ticking a box on an on screen questionnaire.
I would be grateful to any of you who can help with advise please?

Thank you.


Observations on events

I make note of the Co-ordinator encouraging him to do the foundation degree rather than the access course. I am not altogether sure of the difference. I know what an access course is and I know what a foundation degree is, but i’d have to have seen the documents to confirm the difference.

The behaviour of lecturers picking on your son. We only have you account of his version. If he wants to go down the picked on route then he is going to have to provide evidence or at least a convincing statement that it was above and beyond what any student should expect or that there was some vindictive nature as to why he was asked. I think any student should be prepared to answer questions, so its just a case of whether the amount was disproportionate. You claim it was, but the lecturers will claim it was not. It would be hard to prove.

A detailed statement would help, but its his word against theirs.

The equation situation I get the impression Dab lost his temper and didn’t handle it well. If he flet the equation was wrong why didn’t he ask him to clarify and if ignored , just politely ask again or see the lecturer at the end?

Being asked to bring a topic back to class from the workplace is hardly unreasonable. Because he works in a pub, then he could have used his imagination or just gone to the lecturer and said he would have to invent one. The lecturer could hardly have refused. I am not sure where the shaking with silent anger would come from. It wouldn’t have affected me. I just don’t think there’s anything to get angry about. The most I might have thought was it didn’t apply to me and figure out an alternative. The lecturer probably shouldn’t have said the “why are you here?”, but sometimes they aren’t the most articulate, he could be a plonker, but it doesn’t indicate any real malice and Dan gave a good answer.

So then we get to the nitty gritty. He wet and talked to the course co ordinator. It seems Dan was quite upset, so it would only make sense that if he wrote it down it would give him time to reflect and articulate.

The other reason is that until he gets a written complaint then the co ordinator cannot investigate properly, because he would have to see it as a formal complaint. I don’t think there’s any issue with his statement about having positive reviews, if that’s the situation then that’s what it is.

The fact of your telephone calls is neither here nor there imo. You don’t say if he ever got back to you, but e-mails and better still letters are much harder to ignore. He asked your son to provide written evidence and he didn’t do so. I have no idea what the co ordinators reasons for not getting back would be. It may be that the matter is to be discussed with Dan now he is 18 and not his mother. He’d been asked to provide an e-mail and he had not.


The bill

You will need to take with you any documentation so the adviser can have a look. The terms and conditions will be on the website. That will tell you where the college stands.

It’s not clear what the £4850 is for ( is it the whole year? Is it a single payment or do they do it in terms?) nor how you have intended to finance it?

As Klix pointed out any cooling off period is most likely to have expired. I cant talk for colleges bit Unis its normally 14 days from enrolment. The website will tell you. It probably would also require formal withdrawal in any event i.e signing the correct forms to leave the course formally and it appears Dan just decided not to go back without telling anyone.

You said he didn’t sign anything, but he must have enrolled on the course otherwise how did they know to let him into college and on the course. Imo he will have signed something somewhere or even his attendance was acknowledgement that he would pay for the course.

It would really help to see the terms and conditions as it would then be easier to see where you stood. They may even be included with the bill.

You also need to clarify how Dan expected to pay. If it was student finance, then he should have that documentation.

Student finance (unclear on this)

Assuming it was student finance and probably an advanced learner loan then it needs to be checked whether SFE were paying and how that affects his student finance entitlement. You can check on the student finance section. Someone like @PQ will know.

The questions I would have are:

1.

1. If I borrow to do a foundation degree is this via an advanced learner loan or just mainstream degree student finance? Is there a way for it being the former so it doesn’t affect the normal degree finance of degree plus gift year or will a foundation degree at college use up the gift year?



1.

2. If its an advanced leaner loan, will it just be repaid like normal student finance i.e only when above £21k



1.

3. If he has used up the gift year, then does that preclude him from getting finance for an access course? Is it the same or different funding? I was thinking of whether this option would still be open? It was my understanding access course funding can be written off?



Ok back to the main issue again. If it was student finance and they agreed to pay, then the repayments will be when he earns will be 9% of the surplus over £21k.

If there is no student finance, then its just a normal debt and they will pursue him like any other debtor. They might make an arrangement with him £x a week. It would seem odd that Dan would arrange something without knowing how he was going to pay.

What to do


1.

1. Go and see CAB so they can assess his situation , review documents and ask questions.



1.

2. Imo he has to decide what he wants to do with his life. Perhaps he can talk with a family friend or find a mentor who can give him impartial advice. I would say if he wants to eb an engineer and this is the correct course, then he should consider whether he can grow a thick skin and just get back onto it.



1.

3. He can get someone to help him draft a complaint. The student union adviser should be able to help. He has various approaches he can take, but it has to be pitched correctly. Not too angry, but he just needs to state why he is unhappy with the way the course has been run and dissatisfied with his treatment. The course co ordinator should then review it and consider what can be done. This is what he was asked to do and did not. If dissatisfied, he can then try and negotiate about the bill. If he is unhappy about the outcome of any official complaint (the college should have a procedure).



1.

4. He can make a further complaint to the regulating body. For colleges it is the skills funding agency.



https://www.gov.uk/complainfurthereducationapprenticeship



That’s about as far as I can push it because there are lots of questions and missing details. It should follow broadly those areas.

If it were me then id be thinking do I really want to be an engineer and if so can I swallow my pride and just catch up? If he feels the course is too much for him then you can argue down the line that the co ordinators advice was unhelpful and inappropriate or you could try and get on the access course?

Its up to Dan to face up to the issues rather than running off and sticking his head in the sand. I don’t think things are that serious, but he needs to pull his thumb out and get the co ordinator to work with him. Be warned although you are his mum he is at college now and an adult. Some things he will have to sort out himself.

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