consensual or not?? Watch

Anonymous #1
#1
Report Thread starter 2 years ago
#1
this happened over 3 years ago and ive been struggling with it a bit, but I feel safe enough here to ask

i was far to young and i went to a party and met this guy, and we hit it off. A few months later it was his birthday and he invited me to his party. Since then he'd started going out with a friedn of mine. We both got really really drunk and started confessing our 'love' for each other when noone was listening, and then i got upset because i was drunk and felt like i was betraying my friend and i was pretty much constantly sad at the time. he came upstais to cheer me up and wiped my face and then started kissing me, which i was quite happy about. then we started really making out and it was all just horribly inappropriate for 14/15 year olds. at some point he pulled out a condom and all I said was 'oh **** oh **** oh ****' and then he turned me around and put me against a wall and somehow my underwear was down (right before this there was a gap of about 5-10 mins where i had completely blacked out because when he was taking the condom out i was slumped against the bath and didnt really remember antyhing). he started doing things with his hands and i was choking on tears until someone started trying to come in and he panicked and left.
somehow a few hours after i'd drank enough to stop caring about what happened and he invited me to just sleep in his bed. we kissed on and off for like an hour and suddenlt he was pushing me under the covers and made me go down on him pushing my head until i couldnt breathe. i managed to push him off but i didnt realise at the ime that this was wrong of him and just went back to sleep. in the morning he went downstairs and told everyone lies about all the things that happened and bragging about how he scored.
i havent properly spoken to anyone about it and i don't really think about it anymore, but something i read reminded me of it and it won't get ojut of my head so i really had to at least make an anonymous post.
do you think this was rape. a very small part of me thinks so, but really i just think i should have been smarter and not let that happen. i feel like it would put my mind at ease if i heard what others think.
what are your opinions?
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unprinted
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#2
Report 2 years ago
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If it were me, I'd be feeling I'd been raped, twice.

(Original post by Anonymous)
but really i just think i should have been smarter and not let that happen.
No matter what you did, both ****ing someone while they're 'choking on tears' and forcing them to give you oral sex via choking them are - outside pre-negotiated scenes - very Wrong. It was his choice to do both, not yours.
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Kindred
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(Original post by Anonymous)
this happened over 3 years ago and ive been struggling with it a bit, but I feel safe enough here to ask

i was far to young and i went to a party and met this guy, and we hit it off. A few months later it was his birthday and he invited me to his party. Since then he'd started going out with a friedn of mine. We both got really really drunk and started confessing our 'love' for each other when noone was listening, and then i got upset because i was drunk and felt like i was betraying my friend and i was pretty much constantly sad at the time. he came upstais to cheer me up and wiped my face and then started kissing me, which i was quite happy about. then we started really making out and it was all just horribly inappropriate for 14/15 year olds. at some point he pulled out a condom and all I said was 'oh **** oh **** oh ****' and then he turned me around and put me against a wall and somehow my underwear was down (right before this there was a gap of about 5-10 mins where i had completely blacked out because when he was taking the condom out i was slumped against the bath and didnt really remember antyhing). he started doing things with his hands and i was choking on tears until someone started trying to come in and he panicked and left.
somehow a few hours after i'd drank enough to stop caring about what happened and he invited me to just sleep in his bed. we kissed on and off for like an hour and suddenlt he was pushing me under the covers and made me go down on him pushing my head until i couldnt breathe. i managed to push him off but i didnt realise at the ime that this was wrong of him and just went back to sleep. in the morning he went downstairs and told everyone lies about all the things that happened and bragging about how he scored.
i havent properly spoken to anyone about it and i don't really think about it anymore, but something i read reminded me of it and it won't get ojut of my head so i really had to at least make an anonymous post.
do you think this was rape. a very small part of me thinks so, but really i just think i should have been smarter and not let that happen. i feel like it would put my mind at ease if i heard what others think.
what are your opinions?
I'm sorry you went through that. Just the idea that you could have been sexually assaulted or taken advantage of is difficult to manage so I can imagine this has affected you a lot and can see why you would still be having issues even after this much time has passed.

Technically as far as I am aware if you didn't have sex it can't be rape. It can however be sexual assault or attempted rape and unless you are looking at it from a legal standpoint they might as well be the same thing.
You can check for yourself what is classed as "sex", but as far as I am aware it includes the insertion of a sexual organ (penis) into somebody, be it vagina, anus or mouth.
In this case it appears the first time was attempted rape (depending on if any physical insertion happened) and sexual assault (the non-consensual groping/ touching) and the second was rape (non-consensual oral sex).


You did not consent to what he did and he had no reason to assume you did. Even if you hadn't tried to push him off it wouldn't have been okay. He took advantage of you in your emotional and drunk state and used it to his advantage.
As far as I am concerned he both attempted to rape you (the first time) and then sexually assaulted you ** (second time).
** raped. I previously neglected to consider oral sex as sex.

There is sometimes some grey area with things like this if the offending party were drunk since if somebody is incapable of giving consent if they are drunk the are arguably also incapable of understanding it. In your case though I think he did understand and knowingly took advantage of you. Either way though you did nothing wrong and it is in no way your fault. You were in an unfortunately vulnerable position and you should not have had to express any more lack of interest than you did.
Here I was trying to say that even if he was drunk (which could sometimes mean a warped understanding of consent), he seemed to be aware that you did not consent and given your actions he had no reason to believe you had consented. He may have had reason to believe you would be willing in the early stages while you were kissing etc (although any person with reasonable judgement should have realised you were in a vulnerable state anyway), but as soon as you started to show signs of not enjoying it he should have stopped. Crying should be a clear enough indicator that the person does not want what is happening to anybody, drunk or not.

You may like to consider some counselling to try to work through it if it is still something that affects you. There are also support lines you could use.


Edit: I realise some parts did not come across as intended or were incorrect so I will add edits in italics to try to fix the issue. Sorry for any misunderstanding.
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(Original post by Kindred)
Technically if you didn't have sex i can't be rape.
It's quite possible that the first episode did involve his penis going inside the OP - he certainly wanted it to - but in any case non-consensual fellatio has been 'rape' since the Sexual Offences Act 2003 came into force.

There is some grey area with things like this if the offending party were drunk since if somebody is uncapable of giving consent if they are drunk the are arguably also incapable of understanding it.
There is no grey area. When you stick your penis in someone, you need to have a reasonable belief in their consent. If you don't - and 'well, I was too pissed to notice' doesn't count - and they didn't consent or lacked the capacity to do so, you've raped them.
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Kindred
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#5
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(Original post by unprinted)
It's quite possible that the first episode did involve his penis going inside the OP - he certainly wanted it to - but in any case non-consensual fellatio has been 'rape' since the Sexual Offences Act 2003 came into force.



There is no grey area. When you stick your penis in someone, you need to have a reasonable belief in their consent. If you don't - and 'well, I was too pissed to notice' doesn't count - and they didn't consent or lacked the capacity to do so, you've raped them.
First point I was saying IF. If OP believes sex did happen then it would be able to be considered rape. And on a non-technical level anything close to sex is near enough in my book to be called rape anyway.
It seems I neglected to consider oral sex as a type of sex and that is where the misunderstanding has come from. I will remember not to make the same mistake again.

As far as the second point goes I am only arguing that in some cases the "offending party", if drunk or with otherwise impaired judgement could believe that informed consent was given even when it was not.
By this I mean cases like a drunk girl giving a viegue indication of consent and a drunk man taking it as informed consent. In this case a person with reasonable judgement should realise that the girl is too drunk to properly understand the situation or convey her true feelings, but a drunk man could reasonably interpret it as informed consent.
In this case the girl would still have every right to feel violated and raped, but I do not believe the man could be held fully accountable as he was not in a fit state to understand informed consent just as the girl was not in a fit state to convey it.

In OPs case though I do not see that he had any cause to believe OP wanted what he tried to and did do/ make her do. Crying is a pretty clear indicator that you do not like something and do not wish for it to continue, as are the other things OP mentioned.

Anyway this isn't the right place to go into a debate or anything, that's just my view on the matter and anybody is to disagree with me.
I apologise to you and anybody I may have caused offense to, please know I did not mean any harm by anything I said, even if I was incorrect or insensitive, and was only trying to offer support. Thanks for bringing it to my attention so I can hopefully put it right.
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