University lowers entry grades for disadvantaged

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You're an exception, not a rule. Well done for you that is great but I feel like you just want to feel superior to you school mates...

Starting with an ad hominem makes your following argument irrelevant.

Well done.

Reply 21

Moura

Original post by Reality Check

Starting with an ad hominem makes your following argument irrelevant.

Well done.

It literally changes nothing about what I said but ok

Reply 22

_Fergo

As someone at said uni, this is very irritating. They already have a contextual offer programme, and the solution to accommodating both these students and well-qualified ones has been to increase the class size (MORE than 400 in my year). While the support is pretty robust still, it's obvious the number of students is having repercussions on the overall quality of the course.

Reply 23

teenhorrorstory

This is good news. I'm a student from low performing state school and just recently received a contextual offer of ABB for Law at Bristol. My predicted grades are A*AA and my past academic performance is strong, so the contextual offers aren't for 'less smart' students. Many students who get these contextual offers go on to exceed them and do brilliantly. The performance of a school is large factor in determining the academic performance of students- this is a fact. Of course individuals can work incredibly hard to overcome obstacles such as attending a poor school, but a student at a school with poor quality teaching and an environment that doesn't encourage aspiration is simply less likely to do well and even apply to top universities. This in turn leads to students aiming for lower options because no-one around them has ever gotten into good institutions. Contextual offers like these encourage students from poor socioeconomic backgrounds to work hard and aim higher, which has a positive effect in their schools. It's hilarious that privileged kids are complaining over 'inequality' and a lack of fairness when their academic success is largely due to the type of schools they attend.

Reply 24

Len Goodman

You what? This is nothing more than PC gone mad. If you can't get the grades you don't deserve to go, end of story.

Reply 25

teenhorrorstory

To those complaining about this scheme. Do you therefore believe that all students, regarding of socio-economic status and school background should be assessed in the exact same way when it comes to admissions?
Equity>equality

Reply 26

azizadil1998

Not gonna lie, this system is slightly flawed, for example Bristol University has their list of schools which are eligible for contextual offers. Last year, I attended a £15k per year private school (on bursary of course), Chelsea Independent College, which was on the list. My rich friend got an offer from AAB for Economics at Bristol. How is this fair? This is exactly like the benefits system in the UK, its broken. You cant be putting private schools in contextual offers list that just doesn't make sense. Also, disadvantaged areas seems a bit flawed to me as well. Poor families/background makes the most sense but you can't just give someone a chance just because they come from a sheit area.

Reply 27

Moura

Original post by azizadil1998

You're right... I just checked the list and there are 3 colleges from the Chelsea area in there! Maybe it's for scholarship/outreach students that do come from poorer backgrounds and your friend managed to cheat the system? I just checked and my old school is on there lol.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 28

Guru Jason

Original post by Len Goodman

You what? This is nothing more than PC gone mad. If you can't get the grades you don't deserve to go, end of story.

You seem oblivious that many from poorer backgrounds have extenuating circumstances.

Reply 29

HopelessMedic

Why not do more to improve the level of education in low income families/deprived areas instead of moving the goal posts?

It seems like we are treating a symptom of inequality because we can't be bothered to actual deal with the underlying issue.

EDIT: Also what's the difference between this and a contextual offer?

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 30

Amefish

I come from a disadvantaged/deprived area. The culture strongly impacts attitudes. The culture doesn't necessarily have an effect on work ethic providing your parents are hard-workers, however the expectations of us in deprived areas are much lower.

When we get to college, we're told that BBB is extraordinary - it's amazing for your A Levels. Then you come on here and you find that people are getting A*AAA (I even saw someone say they got AAAAA in AS). These kind of grades aren't seen as achievable in my area. I'm a top student and targeted ABB.

You're told not to aim that high, because it's unrealistic, unachievable and not smart. While many people adopt stupid attitudes in these areas just to look cool to their friends, many don't, and still expectations and targets set by colleges, schools and parents are not high. So the kids think they are doing really well, when maybe they are doing well for someone in their area, but when you take a step back you realise they're not doing well at all compared to other students across the country.

People in disadvantaged areas often don't have the money to send their children to the best schools because of transportation costs, also they can't afford to send their children to private school, or to have them privately tutored if they are struggling with their work.

Universities shouldn't lower their entry requirements for poorer students, it's not fair. But they should consider demographic when deciding whether to give that student an offer.

Reply 31

Conzy210

Original post by Amefish

Universities shouldn't lower their entry requirements for poorer students, it's not fair. But they should consider demographic when deciding whether to give that student an offer.

But it is fair.

Expecting two students who have received a vastly different quality of education to achieve the same offer isn't fair.

AAA from an inner city school which is failing, whereby most students are involved with crime, where class sizes are 30 per class, the teachers are below average etc. isn't the same as AAA from a school which has class sizes of 5, the best resources, the best teachers etc.

There is a reason why students from state school achieve better grades at their respective universities. Two students from vastly different backgrounds both getting the same grades at A-level shows the state school educated student is either brighter, has a better work ethic, or both.

Reply 32

cambio wechsel

Good idea. Bristol has, for example, an enormous (and excellent) school in social policy. It'll do some of their students some good to have a classmate who grew up in care or was eligible for free school meals. "It's not fair" moan the entitled ***** who were dragged out of the volvo to look at the Bayeux tapestry.

Reply 33

azizadil1998

Original post by Moura

Yeah cause Chelsea is an extremely disadvantaged area lol. There are quite a few private colleges on there, I think they base them on exam results so if the sixth form historically gets below par exam grades they are on the list, which is very flawed - allowing rich people from private schools is not the right way to go about things.. and I know 2-3 other people just for Economics who got contextual offers from Bristol, who knows how many overall from private schools?? :s-smilie:

Reply 34

jessyjellytot14

Original post by HopelessMedic

I totally agree ^^^

Reply 35

azizadil1998

Original post by Amefish

When we get to college, we're told that BBB is extraordinary - it's amazing for your A Levels. Then you come on here and you find that people are getting A*AAA

Honestly I think teachers do that just to encourage students. BBB is very average, nowadays you need much more than that to differentiate yourself, because you may say grades do not matter, but if you are looking at any professional fields (excluding paths through apprenticeships which is lengthy) you need at least AAB, higher in more competitive subjects like Engineering or Law. But anyways, you need at least these minimum to try and differentiate yourself from others through your work ethic or personality etc - some people say you don't need grades because it's your practical side which matters, but I feel if you don't have the grades you won't get the opportunity to show your practical side! Schools and teachers should really be more straightforward and upfront about these kind of things, there's no point of telling AS Students it's great to get BBB, when really, if you want to go into a really good field, its not, because then the students are living in delusional world where when they finish sixth form they end up working in the local Maccy d's!!!

Reply 36

l'etranger

Original post by Guru Jason

You seem oblivious that many from poorer backgrounds have extenuating circumstances.

Literally everyone has an extenuating circumstance of some sort, it's not like people from wealthy backgrounds lead idyllic lives.

Reply 37

Asolare

Lol are people not aware that there are several schemes already exisiting e.g. Access 2 leeds, which give lower offers based on circumstances like income.

Wholeheartedly support tgis, theres a wealth of research correlating education attainment with income. Step in the right direction Bristol

Reply 38

azizadil1998

Original post by HopelessMedic

So true, it seems like the easy way of doing things just to lower entry requirements. There should really be some research done about this, to see what people with contextual offers actually achieve compared to students who achieved the normal entry grades.

Reply 39

azizadil1998

Original post by Moura

You're an exception, not a rule. Well done for you that is great but I feel like you just want to feel superior to you school mates...

Private school:
- Good teachers that are well paid
- Parents paying a lot for education so clearly value educating their children and therefore a lot of encouragement/pressure/support
- Small class sizes
- You get what you pay for, there are strict rules
- Often compulsory homework sessions after school

Poorly performing state school with poor catchment area:
- Few teachers want to work there, therefore they end up with the worst ones
- Parents probably don't come from an academic background therefore not really a lot of importance place in education (of course this can do the opposite and make them really push their kid, but from my experience this isn't the case most of the time)
- Very disruptive classmates that make learning difficult
- Peer pressure that being good at school is "uncool", pressure to join gangs in certain areas
- Parents are not paying for school so kids can easily skip class
- Unstable home life

Of course these are generalisations and there are exceptions and more contributing factors but anyone who compares the 2 environments can easily see why people at private school are more likely to get higher grades. It doesn't mean that the same amount of effort isn't being put in and it doesn't mean people in the poor state school are dumber and therefore are less prepared for university. Let's be honest, most 1st year modules are at the same level as A-level or only slightly more advanced. All of my friends who went to private school for their whole life but chose to go to a state 6th form/college (I know quite a few people who did this!) say they wish they stayed at the private school because it was easier and they would have done better.

Exactly why they shouldn't adopt a common policy to a complex issue such as this where there may not be a common reason why students are unable to get the required grades, should be on a case by case basis.