I guess I'd be a lot more helpful if I were familiar with your country's educational system, but I'm not. All I can say is that I doubt a lower score in Chemistry is likely to put you out of the competition for a place, given that you're applying to Law. I reckon it'd be a bigger problem if you fared badly in more essay-based subjects like English, History or Philosophy.
If it was very apparent from your transcript that you've not had the best scores in Chemistry and you still secured an interview, that can give you a clue as to how much importance they place on your performance in that subject.
If it was very apparent from your transcript that you've not had the best scores in Chemistry and you still secured an interview, that can give you a clue as to how much importance they place on your performance in that subject.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by pclhy
Thanks so much for your reply! My 4 other subjects (which I got the highest grade/band in) are English, Biology, Economics and Mathematics. In English I just met the cutoff for the highest band/grade. In Biology I got low to mid 90s but that was about top 2% of candidates according to the grade distribution report. In economics I also got mid to low 90s and that was around top 5% of candidates. In maths i got high 90s which was about top 1-2% of candidates.
The overall mark/ rank Cambridge uses requires top 1.5% and because of my chemistry mark, mine is only top 2.8%
Would that give you more information for prediction?
The overall mark/ rank Cambridge uses requires top 1.5% and because of my chemistry mark, mine is only top 2.8%
Would that give you more information for prediction?
From what you know, does Cambridge only look at the overall rank for your country? Or have they ever made offers based on things like rank for top 3 subjects, average rank for certain selected subjects of they deem relevant, etc.? I'd suggest doing a little bit of research in this area. If they have always only looked at the overall rank historically, I can see why that would be worrying to you.
At the end of the day, though, I'm not affiliated with the university, so you'd probably get more useful information if one of the admissions tutors that appear every so often on this forum could answer your question. Perhaps try asking them on the 2017 applicants thread?
Edit: I've just gotten around to seeing your previous posts, and I see that you've already asked a similar sort of question to an admissions tutor here. I feel his answer pretty much summed it up. If you're uncomfortable revealing your home country for privacy reasons, I'm guessing there's not much else anyone can offer you in terms of information, but you could always do your own research as I've suggested above.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Infested
From what you know, does Cambridge only look at the overall rank for your country? Or have they ever made offers based on things like rank for top 3 subjects, average rank for certain selected subjects of they deem relevant, etc.? If they have always only looked at the overall rank historically, I can see why that would be worrying to you.
At the end of the day, though, I'm not affiliated with the university, so you'd probably get more useful information if one of the admissions tutors that appear every so often on this forum could answer your question. Perhaps try asking them on the 2017 applicants thread?
At the end of the day, though, I'm not affiliated with the university, so you'd probably get more useful information if one of the admissions tutors that appear every so often on this forum could answer your question. Perhaps try asking them on the 2017 applicants thread?
cambridge only looks at overall rank. hopefully if I get a conditional offer they will take into account my individual subjects
in any case, thank you so much for your help! are u a current cambridge applicant or student?
Original post by pclhy
cambridge only looks at overall rank. hopefully if I get a conditional offer they will take into account my individual subjects
in any case, thank you so much for your help! are u a current cambridge applicant or student?
in any case, thank you so much for your help! are u a current cambridge applicant or student?
You're welcome, I'm only an applicant
I was also in the midst of editing my post when you replied, you can see the edited post above. Nonetheless good luck in your applications! Hopefully they don't mind your Chemistry results seeing as they invited you for an interview anyway.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Infested
You're welcome, I'm only an applicant
I was also in the midst of editing my post when you replied, you can see the edited post above. Nonetheless good luck in your applications! Hopefully they don't mind your Chemistry results seeing as they invited you for an interview anyway.
I was also in the midst of editing my post when you replied, you can see the edited post above. Nonetheless good luck in your applications! Hopefully they don't mind your Chemistry results seeing as they invited you for an interview anyway.
All the best with your application!
Original post by pclhy
Hi everyone,
I've completed my interview and I know offers won't come out until January but I've got a question and hope someone can answer it. I applied for Law and I've just got my public exam results (Southern Hemisphere country). As expected, I did well in 4 subjects (got the highest grade/band)(90+/100) but did terribly in my 5th subject (Chemistry)(Low 80s)(Only got second highest band). As such, my overall mark is lower than what Cambridge requires.
Of course I do know that this question is irrelevant if I do not even get a conditional offer, but I was wondering if anyone knows about my chances of getting into Law at Cambridge especially since I applied to one of the more competitive colleges) if I miss my conditional offer (if I have one)? I do not have any extenuating circumstances and I've really struggled with Chemistry throughout the year (which shows on my submitted transcript, so I was surprised that I even got an interview).
Thanks in advance!
I've completed my interview and I know offers won't come out until January but I've got a question and hope someone can answer it. I applied for Law and I've just got my public exam results (Southern Hemisphere country). As expected, I did well in 4 subjects (got the highest grade/band)(90+/100) but did terribly in my 5th subject (Chemistry)(Low 80s)(Only got second highest band). As such, my overall mark is lower than what Cambridge requires.
Of course I do know that this question is irrelevant if I do not even get a conditional offer, but I was wondering if anyone knows about my chances of getting into Law at Cambridge especially since I applied to one of the more competitive colleges) if I miss my conditional offer (if I have one)? I do not have any extenuating circumstances and I've really struggled with Chemistry throughout the year (which shows on my submitted transcript, so I was surprised that I even got an interview).
Thanks in advance!
The only people who can really answer are the AT/DoS for your college & course.
A "marginal" miss can sometimes be acceptable but it entirely depends on the specific circumstances eg. the holistic view of your application and the performance of the rest of the cohort.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by jneill
The only people who can really answer are the AT/DoS for your college & course.
A "marginal" miss can sometimes be acceptable but it entirely depends on the specific circumstances eg. the holistic view of your application and the performance of the rest of the cohort.
Posted from TSR Mobile
A "marginal" miss can sometimes be acceptable but it entirely depends on the specific circumstances eg. the holistic view of your application and the performance of the rest of the cohort.
Posted from TSR Mobile
thanks!
Original post by pclhy
Hi everyone,
I've completed my interview and I know offers won't come out until January but I've got a question and hope someone can answer it. I applied for Law and I've just got my public exam results (Southern Hemisphere country). As expected, I did well in 4 subjects (got the highest grade/band)(90+/100) but did terribly in my 5th subject (Chemistry)(Low 80s)(Only got second highest band). As such, my overall mark is lower than what Cambridge requires.
Of course I do know that this question is irrelevant if I do not even get a conditional offer, but I was wondering if anyone knows about my chances of getting into Law at Cambridge especially since I applied to one of the more competitive colleges) if I miss my conditional offer (if I have one)? I do not have any extenuating circumstances and I've really struggled with Chemistry throughout the year (which shows on my submitted transcript, so I was surprised that I even got an interview).
Thanks in advance!
I've completed my interview and I know offers won't come out until January but I've got a question and hope someone can answer it. I applied for Law and I've just got my public exam results (Southern Hemisphere country). As expected, I did well in 4 subjects (got the highest grade/band)(90+/100) but did terribly in my 5th subject (Chemistry)(Low 80s)(Only got second highest band). As such, my overall mark is lower than what Cambridge requires.
Of course I do know that this question is irrelevant if I do not even get a conditional offer, but I was wondering if anyone knows about my chances of getting into Law at Cambridge especially since I applied to one of the more competitive colleges) if I miss my conditional offer (if I have one)? I do not have any extenuating circumstances and I've really struggled with Chemistry throughout the year (which shows on my submitted transcript, so I was surprised that I even got an interview).
Thanks in advance!
How much lower is your ATAR than the required? Because if it's only a little off I think it will be fine, especially since you did so well in everything else(and that Chemistry is hardly relevant to law).
Original post by sophiemaz
How much lower is your ATAR than the required? Because if it's only a little off I think it will be fine, especially since you did so well in everything else(and that Chemistry is hardly relevant to law).
what @jneill said.
It'd depend on all sorts of situations, not just OP but other applicants' states/competitiveness as well, so you never know how they'd treat in this particular case.
If OP has a strong profile in other parts of application, they may forgive her missing a few points in a subject which is not that relevant to Law, as you said. But if it's not the case or they have a large number of very strong applicants, they may choose not to be too accommodating or perhaps put OP in the winter pool to give them another chance.
Since you are an overseas fee payer, you are more likely to still be accepted as a near-miss than a Home/EU applicant.
Unfair but usually the reality.
Unfair but usually the reality.
Original post by returnmigrant
Since you are an overseas fee payer, you are more likely to still be accepted as a near-miss than a Home/EU applicant.
Unfair but usually the reality.
Unfair but usually the reality.
Really not true. The budget that departments work to is based on a pre-set % of income from Home/EU fees and Overseas fees. Recruitment is based on making that income forecast, and as Cambridge (and your old Faculty at UoB where I was on the inside of this) are replete with options, altering the forecast mix of H/EU and Overseas students in rarely required. The overall uni has wider concerns, such as, on average (not at an individual level) Overseas students are a much larger cost to welfare/support services, so if everyone decide to fill up extra spaces with even 2% more overseas students, those services would creak (even more?) during the year.
Across a whole Faculty, even a School, the numbers of H/EU and Overseas students will usually be very close to forecast. There is some small viring across courses based on exam results.
Original post by threeportdrift
Really not true. The budget that departments work to is based on a pre-set % of income from Home/EU fees and Overseas fees. Recruitment is based on making that income forecast, and as Cambridge (and your old Faculty at UoB where I was on the inside of this) are replete with options, altering the forecast mix of H/EU and Overseas students in rarely required. The overall uni has wider concerns, such as, on average (not at an individual level) Overseas students are a much larger cost to welfare/support services, so if everyone decide to fill up extra spaces with even 2% more overseas students, those services would creak (even more?) during the year.
Across a whole Faculty, even a School, the numbers of H/EU and Overseas students will usually be very close to forecast. There is some small viring across courses based on exam results.
Across a whole Faculty, even a School, the numbers of H/EU and Overseas students will usually be very close to forecast. There is some small viring across courses based on exam results.
Great post. Thank you very much for sharing the insight.
But this was something I didn't know about.
The overall uni has wider concerns, such as, on average (not at an individual level) Overseas students are a much larger cost to welfare/support services, ...
What is the reason/s for that? Is it mainly because they (usually) offer university accommodations to internationals for longer period than to home students or because internationals tend to have more possibility of needing other social/welfare support?
Also, do you think it'd be the same at university like Cambridge where international students have to pay hefty sum as college charge on top of international tuition fee (and, unlike other unis, they offer college accommodation to all undergraduates for 3/ yrs, anyway) ? Or is the college fee in general enough to cover the extra cost to the college for having international students?
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by vincrows
Great post. Thank you very much for sharing the insight.
But this was something I didn't know about.
What is the reason/s for that? Is it mainly because they (usually) offer university accommodations to internationals for longer period than to home students or because internationals tend to have more possibility of needing other social/welfare support?
Also, do you think it'd be the same at university like Cambridge where international students have to pay hefty sum as college charge on top of international tuition fee (and, unlike other unis, they offer college accommodation to all undergraduates for 3/ yrs, anyway) ? Or is the college fee in general enough to cover the extra cost to the college for having international students?
But this was something I didn't know about.
What is the reason/s for that? Is it mainly because they (usually) offer university accommodations to internationals for longer period than to home students or because internationals tend to have more possibility of needing other social/welfare support?
Also, do you think it'd be the same at university like Cambridge where international students have to pay hefty sum as college charge on top of international tuition fee (and, unlike other unis, they offer college accommodation to all undergraduates for 3/ yrs, anyway) ? Or is the college fee in general enough to cover the extra cost to the college for having international students?
It's because international students have to make the most significant adjustments in life when coming to the UK to study, meaning they ask the greatest proportion of questions and need the greatest proportions of help from College staff, Help Desks, central administration, accommodation staff, medical and health services, the Student Union etc. Most university legal/examination teams could be halved (= significantly reduced) were it not for Overseas (= Chinese) students appealing every single poor grade - a real issue. They also add costs to finance teams (overseas payments, financial prudence checks, exchange rates etc), recruitment teams (travel to recruitment events, learning overseas qualification equivalents, checking exam results etc). Just look at the questions asked on TSR, proportionally more overseas students asking questions than than UK - but TSR is free, at a University a paid employee has to answer these questions.
Individually, these costs are small per visit/request, but the cumulative effect of them is that staff hours need to be more full time, even if TTO. The number of staff, the training of those staff is constantly expanding. Basically the hidden overheads of Overseas students are much higher than UK students (EU students sit in a middle ground, but their additional costs are unrecoverable (at the moment!)) and those costs are growing.
Growing overseas student numbers is a matter of great internal discussion within Universities to ensure that the necessary support services can still be provided - hence you have seen no-one massively change their Overseas student numbers - indeed any student numbers, since caps were lifted - the logistic consequences are significant. Overseas students are demonstrably more litigious than Home/EU students and lawyers are expensive!!
Ok thanks for explanation. Had expected they might need more social/welfare support to adjust to living 'abroad' but didn't know it costs so much more than home students.
So would you say £5600 - £8000-ish level of college fees at Cambridge more or less equals actual average extra cost per international student?
lol
Ive also heard from my friends who are professors at some of RG universities about a concern on an impact of increasing number of international students to the academic standard of the university as the qualification/grades some international applicants submit is not always completely reliable. Especially with some universities/courses that assess applications without face-to-face interview, it's known some successful applicants turn out to be sub-standard for their course, most notably their ability in English. (And most often seen among students from A certain country......)
When my daughter started her master's at a London uni after Cambridge, she was surprised to see so many students from this country whose English is just not sufficient enough to study there, and some even admit they paid somebody else with better English to sit for their IELTS (or whatever English language qualification test). Her friends who did their UG at other London universities said it was same at theirs.
Luckily no interview = no offer' policy of Cambridge can avoid such a problem, at least.......
So would you say £5600 - £8000-ish level of college fees at Cambridge more or less equals actual average extra cost per international student?
Original post by threeportdrift
. .... Most university legal/examination teams could be halved (= significantly reduced) were it not for Overseas (= Chinese) students appealing every single poor grade - a real issue.
lol
Growing overseas student numbers is a matter of great internal discussion within Universities to ensure that the necessary support services can still be provided - hence you have seen no-one massively change their Overseas student numbers - indeed any student numbers, since caps were lifted - the logistic consequences are significant. Overseas students are demonstrably more litigious than Home/EU students and lawyers are expensive!!
Ive also heard from my friends who are professors at some of RG universities about a concern on an impact of increasing number of international students to the academic standard of the university as the qualification/grades some international applicants submit is not always completely reliable. Especially with some universities/courses that assess applications without face-to-face interview, it's known some successful applicants turn out to be sub-standard for their course, most notably their ability in English. (And most often seen among students from A certain country......)
When my daughter started her master's at a London uni after Cambridge, she was surprised to see so many students from this country whose English is just not sufficient enough to study there, and some even admit they paid somebody else with better English to sit for their IELTS (or whatever English language qualification test). Her friends who did their UG at other London universities said it was same at theirs.
Luckily no interview = no offer' policy of Cambridge can avoid such a problem, at least.......
Original post by vincrows
..............
I think the Cambridge system is much more complex because both the individual Colleges and the University (remembering the Colleges are independent institutions) offer different but over-lapping services. So whilst many Colleges will have a College Nurse, and increasingly some MH support for students, there is still a significant University service provided. Colleges provide a small IT team who you can email and visit in their offices in College, but for anything more complex you have to go to the centrally provided IT services. The University awards degrees and controls academic standards, which makes investigations into academic performance (and appeals etc) a University service.
Following from that, there is a complex exchange of monies between the University and Colleges, and indeed, between Colleges, to level off the full impact of endowments etc.
The setting of the College fee, indeed all 'prices' as they may seem externally, are not calculated on the basis of 'cost' on an individual basis - they don't do the budgeting on a per student basis, it's more a view that 'we can fit in x number of students, across these degrees, and to balance the books we need this much income from them, so fees need to be y'. The 'extra cost of Overseas students' is of course not all because they are Overseas, it may be because all students need subsidising, the Home/EU fees in no way cover the whole costs, and Overseas students pay a much higher proportion of the true cost. Bluntly - market forces apply to non-tax-payers (and the EU students are...? depending on your political perspective!)
Yes, students from wherever 'cheating' through the English Language tests is rife and all manner of security measures are being put in place, photo id, reducing the number of centres, sending staff out to monitor etc. It seems to be more or less 'routine' in some countries and it shows when students do cheat the system. As you say, the interview system does preclude the worst excesses of this behaviour.
If they crack the language test issue, then there will be a saving in the support required. Not least, in the support needed from an ever increasing legal team as every student from country X that has cheated the language tests and therefore stumbles along with fail after fail after fail then won't ever give up on the appeal system for fear of losing face back home.
Original post by threeportdrift
I think the Cambridge system is much more complex because both the individual Colleges and the University (remembering the Colleges are independent institutions) offer different but over-lapping services. So whilst many Colleges will have a College Nurse, and increasingly some MH support for students, there is still a significant University service provided. Colleges provide a small IT team who you can email and visit in their offices in College, but for anything more complex you have to go to the centrally provided IT services. The University awards degrees and controls academic standards, which makes investigations into academic performance (and appeals etc) a University service.
Following from that, there is a complex exchange of monies between the University and Colleges, and indeed, between Colleges, to level off the full impact of endowments etc.
The setting of the College fee, indeed all 'prices' as they may seem externally, are not calculated on the basis of 'cost' on an individual basis - they don't do the budgeting on a per student basis, it's more a view that 'we can fit in x number of students, across these degrees, and to balance the books we need this much income from them, so fees need to be y'. The 'extra cost of Overseas students' is of course not all because they are Overseas, it may be because all students need subsidising, the Home/EU fees in no way cover the whole costs, and Overseas students pay a much higher proportion of the true cost. Bluntly - market forces apply to non-tax-payers (and the EU students are...? depending on your political perspective!)
Yes, students from wherever 'cheating' through the English Language tests is rife and all manner of security measures are being put in place, photo id, reducing the number of centres, sending staff out to monitor etc. It seems to be more or less 'routine' in some countries and it shows when students do cheat the system. As you say, the interview system does preclude the worst excesses of this behaviour.
If they crack the language test issue, then there will be a saving in the support required. Not least, in the support needed from an ever increasing legal team as every student from country X that has cheated the language tests and therefore stumbles along with fail after fail after fail then won't ever give up on the appeal system for fear of losing face back home.
Following from that, there is a complex exchange of monies between the University and Colleges, and indeed, between Colleges, to level off the full impact of endowments etc.
The setting of the College fee, indeed all 'prices' as they may seem externally, are not calculated on the basis of 'cost' on an individual basis - they don't do the budgeting on a per student basis, it's more a view that 'we can fit in x number of students, across these degrees, and to balance the books we need this much income from them, so fees need to be y'. The 'extra cost of Overseas students' is of course not all because they are Overseas, it may be because all students need subsidising, the Home/EU fees in no way cover the whole costs, and Overseas students pay a much higher proportion of the true cost. Bluntly - market forces apply to non-tax-payers (and the EU students are...? depending on your political perspective!)
Yes, students from wherever 'cheating' through the English Language tests is rife and all manner of security measures are being put in place, photo id, reducing the number of centres, sending staff out to monitor etc. It seems to be more or less 'routine' in some countries and it shows when students do cheat the system. As you say, the interview system does preclude the worst excesses of this behaviour.
If they crack the language test issue, then there will be a saving in the support required. Not least, in the support needed from an ever increasing legal team as every student from country X that has cheated the language tests and therefore stumbles along with fail after fail after fail then won't ever give up on the appeal system for fear of losing face back home.
Thank you again for your reply.
Yes, I'm aware Cambridge operate many things on both university and college level, often overlapping and/or co-working in their support and other services. I also know there're transfers of funds between the university/colleges, somthings are not very straightforward there.
But I just wanted to how that level of college fees, collectively, compared to actual extra cost for the university/colleges for having international students, again collectively.
Spoiler
So in short, all these myths that universities are keen to give offers to international students at the cost of more capable home students because they bring in extra cash are nothing but a myth then?
Some of top RGs, especially in London, have a large proportion of international students. (Most famously LSE and UCL.....), and still end up with considerable number of international students who got there because they cheated the system?
If that's the reality, it's a real eye-opener to me (so, thx again for the insight) .......and rather perplexing and worrying at the same time.......
(edited 7 years ago)
Hands down the most informative thread I have read for years.
Original post by vincrows
Thank you again for your reply.
Yes, I'm aware Cambridge operate many things on both university and college level, often overlapping and/or co-working in their support and other services. I also know there're transfers of funds between the university/colleges, somthings are not very straightforward there.
But I just wanted to how that level of college fees, collectively, compared to actual extra cost for the university/colleges for having international students, again collectively.
So in short, all these myths that universities are keen to give offers to international students at the cost of more capable home students because they bring in extra cash are nothing but a myth then?
Some of top RGs, especially in London, have a large proportion of international students. (Most famously LSE and UCL.....), and still end up with considerable number of international students who got there because they cheated the system?
If that's the reality, it's a real eye-opener to me (so, thx again for the insight) .......and rather perplexing and worrying at the same time.......
Yes, I'm aware Cambridge operate many things on both university and college level, often overlapping and/or co-working in their support and other services. I also know there're transfers of funds between the university/colleges, somthings are not very straightforward there.
But I just wanted to how that level of college fees, collectively, compared to actual extra cost for the university/colleges for having international students, again collectively.
Spoiler
So in short, all these myths that universities are keen to give offers to international students at the cost of more capable home students because they bring in extra cash are nothing but a myth then?
Some of top RGs, especially in London, have a large proportion of international students. (Most famously LSE and UCL.....), and still end up with considerable number of international students who got there because they cheated the system?
If that's the reality, it's a real eye-opener to me (so, thx again for the insight) .......and rather perplexing and worrying at the same time.......
A very informative thread and yes, there is no doubt that a certain amount of rather " dubious" behaviour goes on in terms of English language skills. I suppose some students may be of the opinion that, given the high fees they pay, they are entitled to their degree and therefore will challenge grades. Just a hunch but worrying.
All universities are under financial pressures ( not sure about Cambridge colleges). I am sure there must be a temptation by academic staff to recruit overseas students to balance the books, stands to reason really. As long as academic standards are maintained, okay but the lack of consistency across HE in the UK did come as a surprise to me as a naive 17 yr old going through UCAS last year. As I say an informative read.
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