Analysing German poems - Deutsche Lyrik.

14

Basically I bought 'Deutsche Lyrik' today, and I was wondering whether somebody would be able to advise me on how to read a German poem. It's probably a really dumb question, but if somebody could just give me a few things to look out for when I'm reading to get the true meaning of the poems, it would be very much appreciated :smile:

Reply 1

city_chic

13

German poems...sounds hard :p:

Reply 2

Gooner

OP

14

Exactly

Maybes it's coincidence that this book just so happens to be on the Oxford German reading list, and that I'm going to try to read all of the poems on their list before interview?! :p:

Trying to suck up to their exact course requirements shouldn't do much harm :biggrin:

I'm thinking of reading all of Brecht's poems first though. They look quite interesting :smile:

So, people. Any advice? :confused:

Reply 3

huhu

Well... analysis of poems is quite hard and actually it has become a little 'unfashionable' nowadays (Especially amongst native speakers :smile:

) I did engange in poetry only for a few weeks on my own, because the syllabus didn't cover it so I can just give you mere hints and nothing profound.
When you try to analyse a poem, at first, try to state what you already know about it, the obvious things. When was it written, who wrote it, where did the editor come from, what's his personal background etc.
Then, if you're able to, analyse measure, rhyme and sound of the poem. This is somewhat difficult for people without the native speaker's sense for a language (which doesn't mean it's easy for native speakers *gg*). Especially flaws in the measure or the like give a good entrance into a poem. Sometimes sounds are repeated throughout the poem, like sch or something ... you could describe the object of your poem through such sounds. But you don't have to... depends on the case. To make it clear: A poem about snakes could contain a substantial number of sibilants, for example.
At last, you could check the subject matter and the content of the poem....

Or you could just get a good book about analysis of poems. If you're German is good enough to read Brecht, you're likely to be ready for "Wie interpretiert man ein Gedicht" published by Reclam :biggrin:

Reply 4

Gooner

OP

14

huhu

Well... analysis of poems is quite hard and actually it has become a little 'unfashionable' nowadays (Especially amongst native speakers :smile:

) I did engange in poetry only for a few weeks on my own, because the syllabus didn't cover it so I can just give you mere hints and nothing profound.
When you try to analyse a poem, at first, try to state what you already know about it, the obvious things. When was it written, who wrote it, where did the editor come from, what's his personal background etc.
Then, if you're able to, analyse measure, rhyme and sound of the poem. This is somewhat difficult for people without the native speaker's sense for a language (which doesn't mean it's easy for native speakers *gg*). Especially flaws in the measure or the like give a good entrance into a poem. Sometimes sounds are repeated throughout the poem, like sch or something ... you could describe the object of your poem through such sounds. But you don't have to... depends on the case. To make it clear: A poem about snakes could contain a substantial number of sibilants, for example.
At last, you could check the subject matter and the content of the poem....

Or you could just get a good book about analysis of poems. If you're German is good enough to read Brecht, you're likely to be ready for "Wie interpretiert man ein Gedicht" published by Reclam :biggrin:

Thanks

Believe it or not, I did English Literature at GCSE, and can't remember a thing about analysing poems :redface:

And I don't think my German's anywhere near good enough to read Brecht's stuff :p:

I'll probably be dipping in and out of the dictionary a lot :p:

Oh joy

Reply 5

hobnob

14

Watching out for stylistic peculiarities is also usually a good idea:

•

Are there any words or phrases that strike you as unusual (i.e. are they different from what you'd expect to find in normal prose style, for example because they're from a different register)?

•

Is there a word or phrase or piece of imagery that appears to be central to the poem / seems deliberately cryptic / contains a particular pun / occurs several times, but not in exactly the same context?

•

Is there anything unusual about sentence structure, i.e. are some sentences particularly long and intricately structured / particularly short and simple / incomplete, or are there any inversions to emphasise particular bits of the sentence?

•

Do those stylistic points reinforce the conclusions you drew from analysing the sound patterns and/or the metre, as huhu suggested, or do they seem to clash with it? (And what effect is achieved by this?)

•

How does all of this affect your perception of what is being said in the poem, i.e. how does the poem 'work'?

If you want any more specific advice, how about posting an example? :wink:

Reply 6

city_chic

13

I never particularly enjoyed analysing poems at GCSE...it was alright if I understood them and enoyed them. But I never 'get' stuff at first reading, and I only usually begin to understand it once the teacher or some one else brings light on what it's all about etc.

Reply 7

Gooner

OP

14

hobnob

Watching out for stylistic peculiarities is also usually a good idea:

•

Are there any words or phrases that strike you as unusual (i.e. are they different from what you'd expect to find in normal prose style, for example because they're from a different register)?

•

Is there a word or phrase or piece of imagery that appears to be central to the poem / seems deliberately cryptic / contains a particular pun / occurs several times, but not in exactly the same context?

•

Is there anything unusual about sentence structure, i.e. are some sentences particularly long and intricately structured / particularly short and simple / incomplete, or are there any inversions to emphasise particular bits of the sentence?

•

Do those stylistic points reinforce the conclusions you drew from analysing the sound patterns and/or the metre, as huhu suggested, or do they seem to clash with it? (And what effect is achieved by this?)

•

How does all of this affect your perception of what is being said in the poem, i.e. how does the poem 'work'?

If you want any more specific advice, how about posting an example? :wink:

I see

Yet again, thanks for the advice :biggrin:

Here's the poem I'm starting on, by Brecht:

Von armen B.B.

Ich, Bertolt Brecht, bin aus den schwarzen Wäldern.
Meine Mutter trug mich in die Städte hinein,
Als ich in ihrem Leibe lag. Und die Kälte der Wälder
Wird in mir bis zu meinem Absterben sein.

In der Asphaltstadt bin ich daheim. Von allem Anfang
Versehen mit jedem Sterbsakrament:
Mit Zeitungen. Und Tabak. Und Branntwein.
Misstrauisch und faul und zufrieden am Ende.

Ich bin zu den Leuten freundlich. Ich setze
Einen steifen Hut auf nach ihrem Brauch.
Ich sage: es sind ganz besonders riechende Tiere,
Und ich sage: es macht nichts, ich bin es auch.

In meine leeren Schaukelstühle vormittags
Setze ich mir mitunter ein paar Frauen,
Und ich betrachte sie sorglos und sage ihnen:
In mir habt ihr einen, auf den könnt ihr nicht bauen.

Gegen Abend versammle ich um mich Männer,
Wir reden uns da mit "Gentleman" an.
Sie haben ihre Füße auf meinen Tischen
Und sagen: Es wird besser mit uns. Und ich frage nicht: Wann?

Gegen Morgen in der grauen Frühe pissen die Tannen,
Und ihr Ungeziefer, die Vögel, fängt an zu schreien.
Um die Stunde trink ich mein Glas in der Stadt aus und schmeiße
Den Tabakstummel weg und schlafe beunruhigt ein.

Wir sind gesessen ein leichtes Geschlecht
In Häusern, die für unzerstörbare galten
(So haben wir gebaut die langen Gehäuse des Eilands Manhattan
Und die dünnen Antennen, die das Atlantische Meer unterhalten).

Von diesen Städten wird bleiben: der durch sie hindurchging, der Wind!
Fröhlich macht das Haus den Esser; er leert es.
Wir wissen, daß wir Vorläufige sind,
Und nach uns wird kommen: nichts Nennenswertes.

Bei den Erdbeben, die kommen werden, werde ich hoffentlich
Meine Virginia nicht ausgehen lassen durch Bitterkeit,
Ich Bertolt Brecht, in die Asphaltstädte verschlagen
Aus den schwarzen Wäldern, in meiner Mutter, in früher Zeit.

This one looks pretty straight forward to analyse, in particular because of the type of language used, but there are some poems in this book which date back to the 9th Century, and are far nearly incomprehensible :p:

Reply 8

Gooner

OP

14

city_chic

I never particularly enjoyed analysing poems at GCSE...it was alright if I understood them and enoyed them. But I never 'get' stuff at first reading, and I only usually begin to understand it once the teacher or some one else brings light on what it's all about etc.

One of the things I always hated about poetry was that I was always scared to say what I thought about the poem, and what I thought it referred to. Also, i'm never sure of whether I should be aiming to find my own understanding of a poem, or whether I endeavour to find out what the poet himself is trying to convey. :confused:

Reply 9

hobnob

14

gooner1592

This one looks pretty straight forward to analyse, in particular because of the type of language used, but there are some poems in this book which date back to the 9th Century, and are far nearly incomprehensible :p:

I'm a bit too tired to try and analyse it in detail tonight, but some of the things you might look at are:

•

Self-stylization / reader manipulation: Brecht was a great one for self-stylization; even 'Bertolt' wasn't his actual name. Keeping that in mind, what effect does it have on the reader of a poem if the speaker identifies himself as the poet in the very first line? Do you really believe this is an autobiographical account and 'der arme B.B.' (why does he call himself 'poor' in the first place?) of the title and/or the 'Bertolt Brecht' of the first line are identical to Brecht the poet? Is the speaker's attitude towards the rest of the world a pose, and if so, what reasons could he have for assuming it?

•

Personal pronouns: can you make out a pattern as to when the speaker uses 'ich' and when he speaks of 'wir'? Does this enhance the speaker's ostensive role as an observer or does it contradict it? Who are 'wir' anyway?

•

Contrast between city and nature: how does the 'schwarze Wälder' vs. 'Asphaltstädte' imagery work, i.e. what concepts does the poem associate with them and how and when are words relating to the two semantic fields used? (Stanza 6 is particularly interesting in this context). What about the concepts of 'home' and belonging vs. exile? For example, what do you make of the fact that the only place name mentioned is Manhattan, and the foreign word 'gentleman' by which his friends address him and which casts him in a particular role (with brandy and cigars as the attributes of that role)?

•

History (both personal history and the history of mankind): does the poem offer a positive or a negative view on history / civilisation? What about its outlook on the future as opposed to the 'frühe Zeit'? How does the motif of transitoriness / death figure in the poem, and how would you relate this back to the 'biographical' aspect?

Sorry, must get some sleep now...

Reply 10

hobnob

14

gooner1592

Also, i'm never sure of whether I should be aiming to find my own understanding of a poem, or whether I endeavour to find out what the poet himself is trying to convey. :confused:

It's a bit of both, really. The 'meaning' of a poem isn't completely fixed, so you're allowed to have your own thoughts about it and come up with your own reading, which isn't any less valid than anybody else's (school usually takes a different view on that, though, unfortunately...).

Analysing German poems - Deutsche Lyrik.

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