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    (Original post by Pencil Queen)
    My use of yours referred specifically to you (as it was you to whom my post was adressed) - it was not an exclusive comment - I wasn't trying to imply that it was your issue alone
    how does that work? it is my issue or is it the issue of anyone who happens to want good debate in d+d? myself included. you cant specifically relate to me and then just leave a little clause to include everyone else if the logic gets sticky.

    I imagine everyone who voted yes in the poll would consider the lack of good debate to be "their" issue.
    so id be right in saying this was my issue or the issue of anyone who wants to see "good debate", but not yours.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    how does that work? it is my issue or is it the issue of anyone who happens to want good debate in d+d? myself included. you cant specifically relate to me and then just leave a little clause to include everyone else if the logic gets sticky.
    I've tried to explain myself as clearly as possible - if you still don't understand then I'm sorry I'm out of ideas as to how I can spell it out.

    Actually I'll have one more go.

    Just because something is *your* issue doesn't automatically mean it isn't someone elses too.

    I wasn't trying to imply that it is you issue alone - I was pointing out that you individually seem to consider this to be an issue.

    I wasn't using the word issue in the concept of sole ownership but I was pointing out that you would consider yourself to have ownership (*not* SOLE ownership) of the issue.

    If that doesn't get through then I'm out of ideas except to suggest you take my word for what I was trying to say rather than your own interpretation

    (Original post by vienna95)
    so id be right in saying this was my issue or the issue of anyone who wants to see "good debate", but not yours.
    (Original post by PQ)
    I imagine everyone who voted yes in the poll would consider the lack of good debate to be "their" issue.
    I voted yes in the poll and I stated that I believe everyone who voted yes would consider it their issue....and you're still saying I don't consider it an issue?

    Are you deliberately being obtuse vienna? I didn't think I was being that ambiguous and yet you repeatedly read my comments and reply asking if I believe the opposite :confused:
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    (Original post by Pencil Queen)
    I've tried to explain myself as clearly as possible - if you still don't understand then I'm sorry I'm out of ideas as to how I can spell it out.

    Actually I'll have one more go.

    Just because something is *your* issue doesn't automatically mean it isn't someone elses too.

    I wasn't trying to imply that it is you issue alone - I was pointing out that you individually seem to consider this to be an issue.

    I wasn't using the word issue in the concept of sole ownership but I was pointing out that you would consider yourself to have ownership (*not* SOLE ownership) of the issue.

    If that doesn't get through then I'm out of ideas except to suggest you take my word for what I was trying to say rather than your own interpretation

    I voted yes in the poll and I stated that I believe everyone who voted yes would consider it their issue....and you're still saying I don't consider it an issue?
    im aware of this part, but I dont understand how it fits the logic in regards to your reply.

    "well i suggest its your issue then"

    "and the lack of good debate in d+d is yours"

    theres a clear suggestion of a difference in opinion. if the lack of good debate in d+d was mine and everyone elses including yours as you keep admitting, why phrase it in such a manner, or even reply with the intention of highlighting that I should be more concerned than others?

    Are you deliberately being obtuse vienna? I didn't think I was being that ambiguous and yet you repeatedly read my comments and reply asking if I believe the opposite :confused:
    yes, i deliberately like spending four pages on a thread that i didnt even create, having to make assertions that are later advocated by those who initially challenged them. :rolleyes:

    you suggested the opposite, im making sure its quite clear.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    im aware of this part, but I dont understand how it fits the logic in regards to your reply.

    "well i suggest its your issue then"

    "and the lack of good debate in d+d is yours"

    theres a clear suggestion of a difference in opinion. if the lack of good debate in d+d was mine and everyone elses including yours as you keep admitting, why phrase it in such a manner, or even reply with the intention of highlighting that I should be more concerned than others?
    A difference in opinion? Or a difference in priorities.

    Personally I'd say the two issues are one and the same...they're both problems and I beleive that one (the unwelcoming atmosphere) results in the other (the lack of good debate).

    From your posts it's obvious you don't agree - therefore while *I* believe the unwelcoming atmosphere is the main problem (with the lack of debate being a secondary RESULT of this problem) you appear to believe that the lack of debate is THE problem (and that the unwelcoming atmosphere either doesn't exist or isn't a problem or cause of the lack of debate problem) - ie our ideas of which issue is the highest priority problem and needing to be solved differ.

    This does NOT mean that I don't beleive that the lack of good debate is not a problem - just not the biggest problem, you seem to believe otherwise.

    It also does NOT mean that I beleive you have exclusive rights to the "lack of good debate = problem" issue.
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    (Original post by Pencil Queen)
    A difference in opinion? Or a difference in priorities.
    in opinion, but ill let it go.

    Personally I'd say the two issues are one and the same...they're both problems and I beleive that one (the unwelcoming atmosphere) results in the other (the lack of good debate).
    i believe other problems result in the lack of good debate

    From your posts it's obvious you don't agree - therefore while *I* believe the unwelcoming atmosphere is the main problem (with the lack of debate being a secondary RESULT of this problem) you appear to believe that the lack of debate is THE problem (and that the unwelcoming atmosphere either doesn't exist or isn't a problem or cause of the lack of debate problem) - ie our ideas of which issue is the highest priority problem and needing to be solved differ.
    you take the incoorect assumption that I believe a particuarly hostile atmosphere actually exists.
    the lack of good debate is a problem, but one to which i believe i have more appropriate reasons..and answers.

    This does NOT mean that I don't beleive that the lack of good debate is not a problem - just not the biggest problem, you seem to believe otherwise.
    it is what the forum aims to acheive and thus the primary focus of my effort.

    It also does NOT mean that I beleive you have exclusive rights to the "lack of good debate = problem" issue.
    haha
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Quite. Isn't it ironic that a debate about falling standards on the D&D board has itself become a prime example?
    it wasnt before this comment.
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    The fact that the only real debate today in d + d has been in this thread pretty much shows the detioration better than anything
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    i believe other problems result in the lack of good debate
    (Original post by PQ)
    From your posts it's obvious you don't agree
    (Original post by vienna95)
    you take the incoorect assumption that I believe a particuarly hostile atmosphere actually exists.
    (Original post by PQ)
    you appear to believe that the lack of debate is THE problem (and that the unwelcoming atmosphere either doesn't exist or isn't a problem or cause of the lack of debate problem)
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    (Original post by [email protected])
    The fact that the only real debate today in d + d has been in this thread pretty much shows the detioration better than anything
    indeed.
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    Originally Posted by vienna95
    i believe other problems result in the lack of good debate

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PQ
    From your posts it's obvious you don't agree
    ?? i was restating my belief in equal terms. i find that this would be beneficial.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vienna95
    you take the incoorect assumption that I believe a particuarly hostile atmosphere actually exists.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PQ
    you appear to believe that the lack of debate is THE problem (and that the unwelcoming atmosphere either doesn't exist or isn't a problem or cause of the lack of debate problem)
    apologies, i misread the brackets.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    it wasnt before this comment.
    Easy Tiger.
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    (Original post by Amb1)
    Hey Howard, haven't seen you in a while. How are things?

    Sorry, back to the subject...
    yes!
    Everthing be cool and the gang. How are you?
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    Ok firstly this is speciez - i've messed up my other account and can't be bothered to get it fixed just yet.

    I personally think is is one of the best forums (its a personal opinion before everyone has a go) and I think I would also be right in saving the threads have on average have the most posts on as a forum. (Take the number of posts in the forum and divide by threads in forum). However its important we have quality here. I can see it must be tempting for people eager to avoid the mindless spam to post what i percieve as "intelectual conversations" here rather than debate. This is at the moment i think unavoidable but likely to led to an overal decline in the forum.

    The air in the D+D in forum i think personally was tainted by the deletions of threads ages ago. I don't intend to get into specifics here but IMO that is something that has effected everything. Up untill that point many members were very happy in this forum with debates and since them some have been distracted by other issues.

    However even before then I can see some people would have issues. Some debaters particularly on popular topics are very knowledgable and this can led to a percieved arrogance to new members. I don't think this is a particular problem, however this could be prehaps be solved by having some sort of list of members somewhere who you could contact to talk about issues particular to D+D. They could act as mentors however I am not sure how widely used they would. People must remeber that this is only a debate and is not personal.

    Topic repetion is a slight problem. There are only so many things that people know enough about to debate. The longer you are here the more apparent this becomes. Personally I am not bothered about this, but Vienna's attempted idea (lists of generic threads) would certainly help and will as the number of quality threads increases become more effective if impliamented properly.

    One problem that is long standing on every forum on the net is spammers. There is no way to my knowledge of banning on them on this site which means they can always return. This is a large problem when they insist on posting racist rubbish.

    I personally would like to see a Mod appointed responsible for only D+D and this would be have to be someone who gets on with most of the people in the forum. They would then have the time to impliment consistant guidelines as they would only have a small number of issues to concerntrate on.
 
 
 
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