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    Am I the only one wondering right now what the hell has happened to the so-called 'liberal conservatism' that shit-for-brains 'Dave' was preaching only a couple of months ago?

    Just about every day this week in the papers theres been some ridiculous headline about new Tory pledges that are going to save British society from nasty liberalism. We've been treated to pledges to cripple immigration, do-away with our human rights, the repeated garbage about the 'family', not to mention dragging out a load of authoritarian pledges to tackle some crime crisis that doesn't even exist. It was only the other day that I really realised how powerful the likes of Dave and the Sun and ITV news really are, when some guy started declaring that the Human Rights Act was created solely to protect criminals- pure garbage from someone who clearly knows nothing about the Human Rights Act other than what he reads and instantly believes in the tabloids. Can you ever imagine an American saying something like this about the Bill of Rights? Of course not, but in the UK people like David Cameron seem to feel it is acceptable to sweep our rights from below our feet by using lies and propaganda, because he knows it will appeal to a load of retired old bags and Victor Meldrews.

    Why does David Cameron insist on describing himself as a 'liberal', when in reality he's clearly plagued by the miserable-old-man syndrom that quite accurately describes everything the tories seem to do? I must say, I despised Labour's 'Dave the Chameleon' campaign at the time, but now I would really like to see it back on the TV just to remind people of what a worm this man is revealing himself as.

    Can anyone think of anything to come out of David Cameron's gob in weeks that could be considered remotely civilised, let alone 'liberal'?
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    Meh, he's an opportunist and pragmatist like most politicians. He was what they needed to fight Blair, as was the trendy, "compassionate Conservatism", but against Brown he looks a bit too young, too much a case of style over substance and lacking in conviction or policy. He's working hard to counter this image by falling back on policies he knows his party will support - he can't afford to weaken his position further with internal dissent - in the hope that having policies will make him seem less vague
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    People seem to say he's 'just satisfying' the so-called 'right' of the Party to get into power, as though it excuses the fact that he's turned into some big Government bully overnight. If anything his clear lack of principles makes a vote for him an uncertain and dangerous one.

    I don't know how anyone can trust someone who casually messes around with the Human Rights Act, probably one of the only good things Labour have done in their 10 years so far, and rolls out a load of unnecessary measures to tackle a crime crisis that does not exist; while hardly ever mentioning real issues like ID cards or clamp-downs on democratic rights such as the right to protest. He's no Liberal, and whether he's just throwing out these threats to please twisted and brainwashed middle England is beside the point- they should still be taken seriously because human rights belong to us all, not just the readers of the Daily Mail.
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    Beek, IIRC, you were supporting Cameron at the Tory leadership election? Should be careful what you wish for. :p:

    The Tory party has to appeal to its grassroots, no way they can get away with it, just like Labour has to please the unions.
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    After a coupla months of Brown Bounce, the blue rinse reactionaries who make up most of the party have given up pretending to modernise. They'll now go back to the usual Tory hot-buttons, and before you know it, it'll be 'Are you thinking what we're thinking' posters.

    Can't say I'm too bothered - just shows how amazingly out of touch with the majority of the country they actually are.
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    (Original post by Socrates)
    Beek, IIRC, you were supporting Cameron at the Tory leadership election? Should be careful what you wish for. :p:

    The Tory party has to appeal to its grassroots, no way they can get away with it, just like Labour has to please the unions.
    I supported Cameron for a very short period, until he started changing his mind about everything and showcasing his incompetence as though its something to be proud of. I think the fact that I took his word for it in the early days is probably why i'm so pissed off now that he's taking U-turn after U-turn depending on his audience- and when did I say that it was a good thing for Labour to pander to the Unions?
    The obvious difference, of course, is that people vote for Labour because they've established themselves as the Party for Unions. The Conservatives, on the other hand, are by no stretch of the imagination 'liberal'- which is what David Cameron seems to insist on, when he's in the right mood. I can't think of a marketing scam more shamelessly obvious, so much so that it is insulting to peoples common sense that he thinks he can pull it off.
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    (Original post by Beekeeper)
    I can't think of a marketing scam more shamelessly obvious, so much so that it is insulting to peoples common sense that he thinks he can pull it off.
    Well the electorate is quite stupid...

    And no I wasn't implying you were saying it was good that Labour supports the unions, but I was just stating how parties cannot get away from certain grassroot issues...that said I agree that Cameron is an opportunist, as politicians are.
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    What happened is that Cameron realised that trying to copy Blair was never going to work. People don't want another PR-machine. Nor do they want a Tory government in general, but that's not the point.
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    'Copying' Blair worked well while Blair was still around, because late-term Blair was looking tired and worn out, and nothing on the early-term Blair that Cameron was imitating.

    Then, when Brown took over and people realised that they actually quite liked steady, sensible government with less emphasis on spin and the media, Cameron still looked like Tony Blair - except that people now didn't have the actual Tony Blair to compare him to, which meant he just looked sleazy.
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    (Original post by Socrates)
    Well the electorate is quite stupid...

    And no I wasn't implying you were saying it was good that Labour supports the unions, but I was just stating how parties cannot get away from certain grassroot issues...that said I agree that Cameron is an opportunist, as politicians are.
    I think there are some principled politicians out there, its not just full of career-obsessed opportunists, and the fact that David Cameron falls under the latter does not serve as an argument in his favour. If anything it should serve as a warning of how bad he would be as a PM, which is unusual because we usually have to wait until they get into power before we realise what they're really like.

    He's a shameless opportunist lacking any principles, and instead of accepting it as simply something we expect from politians, he should be criticised at every opportunity. The very last thing we want is for the electorate to feel they are powerless and that lies, manipulation and U-turns are something we should accept as being an unchangable part of our democratic system.
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    Hear, hear.

    Whenever people hear that I'm trying to begin a career in politics, they ask things like 'Oh, are you good at lying then?' or 'You'd best polish up on your lying face'. It's most annoying, precisely because of the assumptin that "that's just what politicans are like"...
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    (Original post by alasdair_R)
    Hear, hear.

    Whenever people hear that I'm trying to begin a career in politics, they ask things like 'Oh, are you good at lying then?' or 'You'd best polish up on your lying face'. It's most annoying, precisely because of the assumptin that "that's just what politicans are like"...
    Yeah I get that alot
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    Dionysus:
    What happened is that Cameron realised that trying to copy Blair was never going to work. People don't want another PR-machine. Nor do they want a Tory government in general, but that's not the point.
    Oh I see what you did there

    alasdair_R:
    Then, when Brown took over and people realised that they actually quite liked steady, sensible government with less emphasis on spin and the media,
    I really don't think you can say this....Brown hasn't been in power long enough for you to say he is providing steady and stable government. Furthermore, its always been of my opinion then if you can't see the spin merchants at work, they're doing their job exceedingly well. While of course this is debateable (highly in fact), to claim that there is less emphasis on the media is misguided.

    Beekeeper:
    The Conservatives, on the other hand, are by no stretch of the imagination 'liberal'- which is what David Cameron seems to insist on, when he's in the right mood.
    Well I'd have to disagree there....could you give me an example of an 'illiberal' policy? The Conservatives have always been liberal and will, in the future (hopefully) continue to be so.

    Politicians will always have to placate the electorate. Its all well and good suggesting that they should ALWAYS stick to their principles, but an MPs job is to get elected. If this means being an opportunist, so be it.
 
 
 
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