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Harvard
Hi guys, just wondering: who here applied to OXbridge AND Harvard, and what were your experiences of the latter, and how do you compare them to the former? Cheers for any help, I'm thinking of applying to Harvard and/or Yale/Stanford and I wanna get some tips on all aspects!!!
T
T
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I'm applying to Yale as well as Cambridge, and the preparations are dire, be warned! AS and A levels count for pretty much nothing, you have to take SATIs, which are GCSES in Maths and English, and SATIIs in three chosen subjects from a list.
Check out the Fulbright commission website for real advice on it.
Check out the Fulbright commission website for real advice on it.
Wilde_Oscar
I'm applying to Yale as well as Cambridge, and the preparations are dire, be warned! AS and A levels count for pretty much nothing, you have to take SATIs, which are GCSES in Maths and English, and SATIIs in three chosen subjects from a list.
Check out the Fulbright commission website for real advice on it.
Check out the Fulbright commission website for real advice on it.
Thanks for the Fulbright tip, but I'm not too sure that full A Levels don't count for anything - though maybe not AS Levels - but I think predicted grades count because that's our system and they recognise that.
~U~Teedy~U~
Thanks for the Fulbright tip, but I'm not too sure that full A Levels don't count for anything - though maybe not AS Levels - but I think predicted grades count because that's our system and they recognise that.
They count for very, very little. You must remember than the A-Level dosen't really fit in with the US undergrad system, far to specialist; so admission tutors don't really see them in a positive light. SAT is what it's all about, unfortunatly.
For the US SATs count for a lot, particularly the SAT Is. Also your extracirriculars and your personal satement (normally a short 'essay' in American parlance) count for a lot. Be more expansive than you would for a British audience both in your essay and in the interview - American interviewers like people who strike them as completely different. I know of somebody who compared themselves to their favourite fruit (something very difficult to pull off I would warn), thus describing their personal attributes. This really impressed.
In general I would advise you to look beyond Harvard. People in the UK tend to look only to Harvard (just like most people outside the UK know Oxford far better than Cambridge), yet this does NOT mean it is any better than other Ivy League universities. Princeton, Yale, Stanford etc. are just as good, and depending on what subject you want to study you should consider all - unlike Oxbridge you can apply to as many Ivies as you like.
In general I would advise you to look beyond Harvard. People in the UK tend to look only to Harvard (just like most people outside the UK know Oxford far better than Cambridge), yet this does NOT mean it is any better than other Ivy League universities. Princeton, Yale, Stanford etc. are just as good, and depending on what subject you want to study you should consider all - unlike Oxbridge you can apply to as many Ivies as you like.
Amrad
I may apply to both. The SAT I tests seem like they need very little preparation, though I can't help thinking that with no preparation towards them I am going to be a fair way behind an American student of the same ability.
For SAT I, I only did a few past paper the weekend before, I didn't feel anymore preparation was needed; and on reflection, it wasn't.
BazTheMoney
For SAT I, I only did a few past paper the weekend before, I didn't feel anymore preparation was needed; and on reflection, it wasn't.
I had ago at past paper I found on the collegeboard website without any preparation or experience of SAT style questions and feel I got a reasonable score. In fact the lack of preparation needed has encouraged me to have a go anyway, the worst that can happen is I will be back where I was with UCAS and have expended not too much time.
Amrad
I had ago at past paper I found on the collegeboard website without any preparation or experience of SAT style questions and feel I got a reasonable score. In fact the lack of preparation needed has encouraged me to have a go anyway, the worst that can happen is I will be back where I was with UCAS and have expended not too much time.
The US tend to train students to answer the question, but what that means is that you get a lot of people in the 1300-1500 bracket, and if you're a decent applicant who knows a bit about the structure, getting beyond 1500 is little more than a formality
The Math I found surprisingly easy, the Verbal was slightly tedious, I didn't struggle on vocabulary but found it difficult to concentrate and wasn't sure what they were looking for exactly. I can see how students could easily be coached for it - I know many end up learning vocabulary.
Amrad
The Math I found surprisingly easy, the Verbal was slightly tedious, I didn't struggle on vocabulary but found it difficult to concentrate and wasn't sure what they were looking for exactly. I can see how students could easily be coached for it - I know many end up learning vocabulary.
Verbal is essentially a glorified vocab test. I have friends who are far better writers than me who did worse simply because they have a smaller passive vocabulary. I wouldn't worry too much about it really - it's great if you can do well at SATs, but if you can't it hardly means you're stupid (they are not real aptitude tests, and they no longer claim to be such).
~U~Teedy~U~
Hi guys, just wondering: who here applied to OXbridge AND Harvard, and what were your experiences of the latter, and how do you compare them to the former? Cheers for any help, I'm thinking of applying to Harvard and/or Yale/Stanford and I wanna get some tips on all aspects!!!
T
T
i applied to harvard (waitlisted and ultimately rejected) and oxford (accepted). i would recommend not wasting your time (and money) with the us universities unless you are really committed to the application process.
the sat and sat2 are both relatively simple, but you will need to spend some time familiarizing yourself with both. (it is also not uncommon to retake them; remember that a "good" score on either might not cut it for harvard). then there are the essays: non-academic and more-or-less creative writing, i found them much more frustrating than the ucas statement. though harvard only required one this year, most top-notch universities ask for two essays. then you'll need two letters of recommendation from teachers, and a recommendation from your "guidance councilor". and don't forget the mid-year report and statement from your school (around february). in case you are not financially loaded, you will need to fill out a financial aid form, which is quite detailed (try categorizing your household's total expenditure over the last 12 months)... really quite a hassle, it started to detract from my school work.
that said, for some reason or another, there is a widely held belief that harvard is "better", and if you want a balanced liberal arts education, it might be worth the extra effort of applying.
sluggy
Okay, a proper answer. This comes from my dad having gone to Yale today!
1) They do not care about A levels. It adds to your 'points' with SATIIs, but A levels is the equivilant of the first year of undergrad degree in the US. Sad, but true. My Latin AS was the first year, A level will be the second year.
2) For Harvard and Yale, they advise a score on the SATS in the 1500's. In other words, they want nearly full scores on both tests. SATIIS you *have* to check, on collegeboard.com, as Amercian subjects are very very different. There is no history, there is 'world history' - where they look briefly at lots of countries, American history - where they go into great depth, and European history, where they study France, Germany and Britain. No real depth, actually, just breadth. American subjects cover a lot, shallowly. The best advice is to take the Literature SATII - easy if you can answer questions on grammar, and the Writing SATII, where you have to write an essay, and then an additional SATII in the closest subject to your own.
3) Personal statement for university here, throw out the window. In your personal statement essay, they want extra curricular by the wheelbarrow-load. American schools focus on it heavily - they'll want evidence of 'development' in extra curricular, ie, learning an instrument, or dance, or painting, or photography, that kind of thing.
4) You are asked to write an additional essay. It is not generally serious, I have a friend at Yale in her second year, she was asked to write on 'rain'. The general idea is to communicate yourself as friendly and happy, and enthusiastic.
5) Your teachers have to write a mini-essay on you. Choose a teacher carefully - unlike UCAS, where they write reasonably, your US application ref has to be, and I quote, 'glowing'. Exaggeration is essential, you need a teacher who can brown-nose with the best. References in America are hot stuff, and your teacher saying, 'I have enjoyed teaching him/her, but-' is not good enough for harvard/Yale/Princeton.
6) If you're into humanities, you need to brush up on science. If you're into science - it works both ways. US unis, the Ivy leagues insist on their students getting credits in both branches. You need to provide evidence that you're competent.
7) SATs are heavily coached for in the States. It's advisable to take the test twice, and order prep books online, to get used to the format. Princeton's website has a proper mock SAT to practise on online. (Princeton is the rich one)
8) If you're taking a language, England focuses more on speaking and ability than the US. Over there, you need to know grammar, especially in languages like Latin where you will have to translate into Latin from English.
9) It's expensive. Incredibly. The universities offer a 'need's blind' policy for entry, ie, if they want you, they'll shell out for your tuition, however, you also have to contribute from personal savings seperate from your parents' income, you have to submit parental income statements, and provide evidence that you work towards the cost. You're also unable to get a job over there, except on campus.
Collegeboard.com offers registration for the SATs and SATIIS, also good for locating the test centre in your area. Princeton's website - located on google, offers a free practise SAT. Fullbright commission offers practical advice and has a library in London on information, like medical insurance and stuff.
1) They do not care about A levels. It adds to your 'points' with SATIIs, but A levels is the equivilant of the first year of undergrad degree in the US. Sad, but true. My Latin AS was the first year, A level will be the second year.
2) For Harvard and Yale, they advise a score on the SATS in the 1500's. In other words, they want nearly full scores on both tests. SATIIS you *have* to check, on collegeboard.com, as Amercian subjects are very very different. There is no history, there is 'world history' - where they look briefly at lots of countries, American history - where they go into great depth, and European history, where they study France, Germany and Britain. No real depth, actually, just breadth. American subjects cover a lot, shallowly. The best advice is to take the Literature SATII - easy if you can answer questions on grammar, and the Writing SATII, where you have to write an essay, and then an additional SATII in the closest subject to your own.
3) Personal statement for university here, throw out the window. In your personal statement essay, they want extra curricular by the wheelbarrow-load. American schools focus on it heavily - they'll want evidence of 'development' in extra curricular, ie, learning an instrument, or dance, or painting, or photography, that kind of thing.
4) You are asked to write an additional essay. It is not generally serious, I have a friend at Yale in her second year, she was asked to write on 'rain'. The general idea is to communicate yourself as friendly and happy, and enthusiastic.
5) Your teachers have to write a mini-essay on you. Choose a teacher carefully - unlike UCAS, where they write reasonably, your US application ref has to be, and I quote, 'glowing'. Exaggeration is essential, you need a teacher who can brown-nose with the best. References in America are hot stuff, and your teacher saying, 'I have enjoyed teaching him/her, but-' is not good enough for harvard/Yale/Princeton.
6) If you're into humanities, you need to brush up on science. If you're into science - it works both ways. US unis, the Ivy leagues insist on their students getting credits in both branches. You need to provide evidence that you're competent.
7) SATs are heavily coached for in the States. It's advisable to take the test twice, and order prep books online, to get used to the format. Princeton's website has a proper mock SAT to practise on online. (Princeton is the rich one)
8) If you're taking a language, England focuses more on speaking and ability than the US. Over there, you need to know grammar, especially in languages like Latin where you will have to translate into Latin from English.
9) It's expensive. Incredibly. The universities offer a 'need's blind' policy for entry, ie, if they want you, they'll shell out for your tuition, however, you also have to contribute from personal savings seperate from your parents' income, you have to submit parental income statements, and provide evidence that you work towards the cost. You're also unable to get a job over there, except on campus.
Collegeboard.com offers registration for the SATs and SATIIS, also good for locating the test centre in your area. Princeton's website - located on google, offers a free practise SAT. Fullbright commission offers practical advice and has a library in London on information, like medical insurance and stuff.
I'm going to go against the grain a bit here; I agree than applications are a pain in the arse, but I didn't fell they affected by social or academic life in anyway, in fact it gave me something to do for Prep every evening. I think people make the applications out to be harder than they really are, again I'll agree than at first the terminology is a bit confusing and unfamilar, but after I did my first I had absolutly no problem doing them. As for the essays/personal statement, I think they're over hyped, we had about 12 people apply, and after a while we all agreed that they weren't all they were made out to be. As for finance, and even at my school people still had to do the form, they're very long winded, but once I got down to it I did it pretty quickly.
Similar to UCAS, once the personal statement is done it shouldn't take anything more than 40 minutes.
Similar to UCAS, once the personal statement is done it shouldn't take anything more than 40 minutes.
Wilde_Oscar
2) For Harvard and Yale, they advise a score on the SATS in the 1500's. In other words, they want nearly full scores on both tests. SATIIS you *have* to check, on collegeboard.com, as Amercian subjects are very very different. There is no history, there is 'world history' - where they look briefly at lots of countries, American history - where they go into great depth, and European history, where they study France, Germany and Britain. No real depth, actually, just breadth.
2) For Harvard and Yale, they advise a score on the SATS in the 1500's. In other words, they want nearly full scores on both tests. SATIIS you *have* to check, on collegeboard.com, as Amercian subjects are very very different. There is no history, there is 'world history' - where they look briefly at lots of countries, American history - where they go into great depth, and European history, where they study France, Germany and Britain. No real depth, actually, just breadth.
And remember (I didn't) that world history, though terribly easy, is only offered a couple of times a year. (Then again, US history is not exactly tough to master if you go out and buy a Kaplan guide to it.)
sluggy
Excellent post Wilde_Oscar.
I would only be able to sit the SATs once, with EA in December, if most people sit them twice then I will be at a disadvantage.
Secondly, the point about a midterm report (February) is worrying. My maths report from around that time said "x puts in 25% of the possible effort he can and even that is a generous estimate". I wouldn't have a chance if they read that, even though it's from a teacher who gives notoriously cutting reports.
Thirdly, A2 Latin is of second year graduate level
. One of the advantages of the US for me was that I could continue with Latin and the like at a higher level.
I would only be able to sit the SATs once, with EA in December, if most people sit them twice then I will be at a disadvantage.
Secondly, the point about a midterm report (February) is worrying. My maths report from around that time said "x puts in 25% of the possible effort he can and even that is a generous estimate". I wouldn't have a chance if they read that, even though it's from a teacher who gives notoriously cutting reports.
Thirdly, A2 Latin is of second year graduate level
. One of the advantages of the US for me was that I could continue with Latin and the like at a higher level.Thanks for the compliment. As I said, it's a serious option for myself.
Mid term reports - your teachers merely have to be aware that they're hyping you up for US universities. That said, their reports will be more flattering.
Take the online SAT then, and buy a book online, it's red with blue letters and is the only one to offer ten practise SATS. Buy prep books, seriously. Get tutoring from teachers. Latin, you need to know grammar inside out.
Be aware you need science back up. Also, with A level qualifications, you qualify for some acceleration credits, which could ultimately bump up your time of exit.
Mid term reports - your teachers merely have to be aware that they're hyping you up for US universities. That said, their reports will be more flattering.
Take the online SAT then, and buy a book online, it's red with blue letters and is the only one to offer ten practise SATS. Buy prep books, seriously. Get tutoring from teachers. Latin, you need to know grammar inside out.
Be aware you need science back up. Also, with A level qualifications, you qualify for some acceleration credits, which could ultimately bump up your time of exit.
BazTheMoney
I'm going to go against the grain a bit here; I agree than applications are a pain in the arse, but I didn't fell they affected by social or academic life in anyway, in fact it gave me something to do for Prep every evening.
I'm finding the essays a pain in the arse, actually, and my family finance information is complicated! Working out collective family income, how much I'll earn in the holidays, how much my grandmother with cancer will bequeath when she dies - calculating the fricking year of death - and all the rest of it.
I think people make the applications out to be harder than they really are, again I'll agree than at first the terminology is a bit confusing and unfamilar, but after I did my first I had absolutly no problem doing them.
As for the essays/personal statement, I think they're over hyped, we had about 12 people apply,
and after a while we all agreed that they weren't all they were made out to be. As for finance, and even at my school people still had to do the form, they're very long winded, but once I got down to it I did it pretty quickly.
Similar to UCAS, once the personal statement is done it shouldn't take anything more than 40 minutes.
Wilde_Oscar
I'm finding the essays a pain in the arse, actually, and my family finance information is complicated! Working out collective family income, how much I'll earn in the holidays, how much my grandmother with cancer will bequeath when she dies - calculating the fricking year of death - and all the rest of it.
Unlucky, though I think you'll agree most peoples are more straight forward.
Yeah, mate, but it's that bloody first one. Also, understanding the 'credits'. I'm talking to a Yale-y at the moment, and she doesn't understand credits herself.
Long time since I applied to the US, but if a person from the university dosen't understand their own application forms, that reflects more on the person than the precess itself.
Lucky you, my school has left this all up to me.
I did have to do it myself. Just when you have lots of clever people you have a few that apply to the US; it also means you can judge the system better.
Well, I'm just saying that the essays need to be written in a totally different style to UCAS. UCAS is about academia, particularly Cam and Oxford, where the PS really needs to be 3/4 academic achievement, whereas Yale and Harvard are about all-rounders.
It's different, but not any harder. I found it easier to write about random crap than I did about academia.
I was talking about UCAS in that section, using it as an example for people not applying across the Atlantic.
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