US expels 35 Russian diplomats for alleged election intervention Watch

Mekkiii
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http://news.sky.com/story/united-sta...omats-10711358

Shocking stuff, very unnecessary move.
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Defraction
  • Political Ambassador
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They don't clearly state how the American diplomats have been harassed. For all you know, it could have been a minor harassment which somehow gives the American government the authority to hold the Russian authorities to account.

I don't argue against the fact that Obama shouldn't have done anything but he should have approached the matter in a better way. Perhaps, the feud that is going on between America and Russia clearly had a role in what Obama thought they should react to this situation.

Both nations need to man up and stop with these childish games. It's getting rather silly now.
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Joep95
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So much for the smooth transition of power
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Drewski
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It's not that uncommon, happens (both ways) on a semi-regular basis.
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l'etranger
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If the CIA were unable to prevent this, perhaps high-ranking members should be fired for incompetence.
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AlexanderHam
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And this is Trump's response. What an utter and complete moron

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AlexanderHam
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(Original post by l'etranger)
If the CIA were unable to prevent this, perhaps high-ranking members should be fired for incompetence.
CIA doesn't have authority over cyber issues, that is the National Security Agency (the electronic and signals intelligence agency, part of the Department of Defence) and Cyber Command (a combatant command of the US military).

Furthermore, it was a hack of the Democratic National Committee, a private organisation. Ultimately the blame lies with President Obama; his weak foreign policy has brought us to this point. We need "cyber-deterrence", just as we had nuclear deterrence. Expelling a few diplomats and sanctioning a few Russian intelligence officers isn't going to do the trick; we need to cause a meltdown on their ****ing networks, and then dare them to escalate

The United States economy is eight times the size of Russia's. There's no question we could maintain escalation dominance if we had the balls to respond robustly. Our hackers are unquestionably superior to the Russians. The problem is that the cyber brief has been held by organisations like the NSA and GCHQ, which are intelligence agencies; they are likely sitting on most Russian government networks, watching, waiting, collecting intelligence. They don't want to give up that access to send a message (for the access that allows you to sit on their networks watching is the same access you can use to start breaking ****, but that risks detection and thus giving up the accsess), but send a message we must. We have more to lose, but we can afford to lose more too
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AlexanderHam
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(Original post by Drewski)
It's not that uncommon, happens (both ways) on a semi-regular basis.
Hacking into government networks for intelligence purposes is extremely common. In fact, there's no question that we (the Anglosphere) are the superior of anyone else in that game.

What we don't do is use that access to steal foreign intellectual property (like the Chinese) or for propaganda purposes and to meddle in the internal political affairs of other countries (as the Russians do).

By leaving the cyber brief primarily in the hands of organisations like GCHQ and NSA, we've left it with people who are loathe to give up the exceptional access they have to send a message (they can use the access they have on those networks to do some real damage, but actively using that access means risking detection and giving it up).

But the whole point of the military and intelligence services is to help free us from being coerced by foreign powers. The Russian hack on the DNC and subsequent leaks constituted a fundamental attack on our national interests, almost akin to an armed attack. We shouldn't respond kinetically, of course, but we should respond in the strongest possible terms online; start crippling their banking system, messing up their internet backbone, making it clear that if they ever try something like that again, they are risking a situation they cannot control or predict the outcome of.
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l'etranger
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(Original post by AlexanderHam)
CIA doesn't have authority over cyber issues, that is the National Security Agency (the electronic and signals intelligence agency, part of the Department of Defence) and Cyber Command (a combatant command of the US military).

Furthermore, it was a hack of the Democratic National Committee, a private organisation. Ultimately the blame lies with President Obama; his weak foreign policy has brought us to this point. We need "cyber-deterrence", just as we had nuclear deterrence. Expelling a few diplomats and sanctioning a few Russian intelligence officers isn't going to do the trick; we need to cause a meltdown on their ****ing networks, and then dare them to escalate

The United States economy is eight times the size of Russia's. There's no question we could maintain escalation dominance if we had the balls. Our hackers are unquestionably superior to the Russians. The problem is that the cyber brief has been held by organisations like the NSA and GCHQ, which are intelligence agencies; they are likely sitting on most Russian government networks, watching, waiting, collective intelligence. They don't want to give up that access to send a message (for the access that allows you to sit on their networks watching is the same access you can use to start breaking ****), but send a message we must. We have more to lose, but we can afford to lose more too
NSA in that case, but yes that is the principle, rather than complaining at what the Russians may or may not being doing, the people responsible for dealing with this issue should be held to account or else it looks like Obama is just mad about the election result.
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AIDS Skrillex
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Russia has done what the media should've done, exposing crooked Hillary's lies and deception.
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AlexanderHam
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(Original post by l'etranger)
NSA in that case, but yes that is the principle, rather than complaining at what the Russians may or may not being doing, the people responsible for dealing with this issue should be held to account or else it looks like Obama is just mad about the election result.
I don't agree that it looks like that, at all.

We need to respond, very strongly. Russia needs to fear us, and they don't because President Obama's foreign policy has been shamefully weak. Foreign powers construe his "coolness" as weakness.

Russia has to pay, big time, for this. An attack on our election is an act that touches on our most sensitive and grave national interests. We should be **** them up in a big cyber attack; cripple their banking network, switch the power grid on and off in Moscow, make it clear who is the superpower and who is the laughable, pathetic shadow of its former self. They won't respond because they cannot maintain escalation dominance, and they can't afford to lose as much as we can afford to. Fundamentally, if a foreign power feels they are able to act in this way, then the whole point of the military and intelligence agencies (to protect us from being coerced and manipulated by foreign powers) has failed. We need to re-establish our dominance.

But that will be costly. And ultimately, President Obama is to blame. It is his weakness that the Russians have responded to. They must be made to pay, but President Obama must take the lion's share of the blame.
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AIDS Skrillex
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(Original post by l'etranger)
NSA in that case, but yes that is the principle, rather than complaining at what the Russians may or may not being doing, the people responsible for dealing with this issue should be held to account or else it looks like Obama is just mad about the election result.
Don't think NSA is responsible as Hillary used her private server. NSA's job is to defend against official servers. If anything, #LockHerUp :cool:
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AlexanderHam
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(Original post by AIDS Skrillex)
Russia has done what the media should've done, exposing crooked Hillary's lies and deception.
:lol: So gullible.

Like so many Trump supporters, your position viz. Trump is "Rape me, rob me blind, I don't care; just validate my bigotry and make me feel okay about being a white supremacist piece of ****"
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AlexanderHam
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(Original post by AIDS Skrillex)
Don't think NSA is responsible as Hillary used her private server. NSA's job is to defend against official servers.
Nope. Its job is to protect all critical national infrastructure.

If anything, #LockHerUp :cool:
D'aww, you really believed Trump was going to "lock her up". The poor little baby, what are you going to do now that no such thing will happen?
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Joep95
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(Original post by AlexanderHam)
I don't agree that it looks like that, at all.

We need to respond, very strongly. Russia needs to fear us, and they don't because President Obama's foreign policy has been shamefully weak. Foreign powers construe his "coolness" as weakness.

Russia has to pay, big time, for this. An attack on our election is an act that touches on our most sensitive and grave national interests. We should be **** them up in a big cyber attack; cripple their banking network, switch the power grid on and off in Moscow, make it clear who is the superpower and who is the laughable, pathetic shadow of its former self. They won't respond because they cannot maintain escalation dominance, and they can't afford to lose as much as we can afford to. Fundamentally, if a foreign power feels they are able to act in this way, then the whole point of the military and intelligence agencies (to protect us from being coerced and manipulated by foreign powers) has failed. We need to re-establish our dominance.

But that will be costly. And ultimately, President Obama is to blame. It is his weakness that the Russians have responded to. They must be made to pay, but President Obama must take the lion's share of the blame.
I assume you supported Romney in 2012?
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AIDS Skrillex
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(Original post by AlexanderHam)
:lol: So gullible.

Like so many Trump supporters, your position viz. Trump is "Rape me, rob me blind, I don't care; just validate my bigotry and make me feel okay about being a white supremacist piece of ****"
Hilarious, I'm not even white :rofl: Find another strawman
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AIDS Skrillex
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(Original post by AlexanderHam)
Nope. Its job is to protect all critical national infrastructure.



D'aww, you really believed Trump was going to "lock her up". The poor little baby, what are you going to do now that no such thing will happen?
NSA wasn't aware of her private server because she kept it hidden by intent. She is a criminal.

No I didn't believe it was gonna happen.
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Ladbants
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Good, this needs to be investigated.
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l'etranger
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(Original post by AlexanderHam)
I don't agree that it looks like that, at all.

We need to respond, very strongly. Russia needs to fear us, and they don't because President Obama's foreign policy has been shamefully weak. Foreign powers construe his "coolness" as weakness.

Russia has to pay, big time, for this. An attack on our election is an act that touches on our most sensitive and grave national interests. We should be **** them up in a big cyber attack; cripple their banking network, switch the power grid on and off in Moscow, make it clear who is the superpower and who is the laughable, pathetic shadow of its former self. They won't respond because they cannot maintain escalation dominance, and they can't afford to lose as much as we can afford to. Fundamentally, if a foreign power feels they are able to act in this way, then the whole point of the military and intelligence agencies (to protect us from being coerced and manipulated by foreign powers) has failed. We need to re-establish our dominance.

But that will be costly. And ultimately, President Obama is to blame. It is his weakness that the Russians have responded to. They must be made to pay, but President Obama must take the lion's share of the blame.
I don't necessarily see much value in reigniting the cold war with Russia but I agree with this sentiment, assuming the Obama administration isn't just lying to delegitimise Trump, American agencies have failed to perform their jobs.

(Original post by AIDS Skrillex)
Don't think NSA is responsible as Hillary used her private server. NSA's job is to defend against official servers. If anything, #LockHerUp :cool:
Ever since the Dems defeat the media along with high profile Democrats have been making the claim that Tump is in leauge with the Russians, they wrongly influenced the outcome of the election. This may or may not be true, it would require expert analysis to determine, but if it is true, rather than it being leading news on CNN, there should be investigations with individuals being held to some account or else it's just Obama and his media friends throwing the toys out of the pram after their election defeat.
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Drewski
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(Original post by AlexanderHam)
We shouldn't respond kinetically, of course, but we should respond in the strongest possible terms online; start crippling their banking system, messing up their internet backbone, making it clear that if they ever try something like that again, they are risking a situation they cannot control or predict the outcome of.
However, if we were to react and respond, we would never admit to it or make it public that we did such a thing.

Indeed, the intelligence organisations would far rather they be seen as incompetent and inadequate in this field. It's better for business.
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