University fees; unfair or necessary? Watch

MoonlightBoo
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TSR, whats your opinion on tuition fees? Do you think it's unfair that people are making money out of the education of our children? Or do you think not providing it would mean people would take it for granted?
Whats your view?
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cambio wechsel
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(Original post by MoonlightBoo)
Do you think it's unfair that people are making money out of the education of our children?
who's this?
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Acsel
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Education can't be provided for free. That is a simple fact, most people aren't willing to teach for free, nor are the materials, hardware, etc going to be free. Someone at some point has to pay for it, whether that is parents of students, students themselves, money from taxes, loans and so on.

I don't think money should be a deciding factor on whether you can go to uni or not. The system we have at the moment (everyone can get a loan) is one of the better ways to deal with it. I do however feel that in some cases exceptions should be made on how much loan you can get. It's rare but in cases where parents earn a lot but don't help the student, the student is then left with less maintenance loan and no financial support. In most cases it works but it falls down in some places.

I do somewhat approve of making university free and funding it through taxes. However then you are in a position where the poor get something for nothing and the rich have to foot the bill. If everyone should get an equal chance then it isn't fair to then say the rich have to pay for it. That's almost a double standard. That said we are already in this sort of situation with other government funded services. The rich pay more taxes to give everyone things like free healthcare.

I don't at all disapprove of universities making money out of tution fees, providing it is at least in some way reinvested into the students. Universities are completely different to schools and colleges. In many cases they function far closer to a business and offer a lot more in the way of services. If anything university should be encouraging students to do the same.

The real problem is that there is no solution that makes it fair for everyone. I don't approve of the American solution (kid is born, better get saving for their college tution now) and our system certainly isn't perfect but there are problems with every system. In an ideal world the tution could be provided at no cost to anyone but that simply won't happen.
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MoonlightBoo
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(Original post by Acsel)
Education can't be provided for free. That is a simple fact, most people aren't willing to teach for free, nor are the materials, hardware, etc going to be free. Someone at some point has to pay for it, whether that is parents of students, students themselves, money from taxes, loans and so on.

I don't think money should be a deciding factor on whether you can go to uni or not. The system we have at the moment (everyone can get a loan) is one of the better ways to deal with it. I do however feel that in some cases exceptions should be made on how much loan you can get. It's rare but in cases where parents earn a lot but don't help the student, the student is then left with less maintenance loan and no financial support. In most cases it works but it falls down in some places.

I do somewhat approve of making university free and funding it through taxes. However then you are in a position where the poor get something for nothing and the rich have to foot the bill. If everyone should get an equal chance then it isn't fair to then say the rich have to pay for it. That's almost a double standard. That said we are already in this sort of situation with other government funded services. The rich pay more taxes to give everyone things like free healthcare.

I don't at all disapprove of universities making money out of tution fees, providing it is at least in some way reinvested into the students. Universities are completely different to schools and colleges. In many cases they function far closer to a business and offer a lot more in the way of services. If anything university should be encouraging students to do the same.

The real problem is that there is no solution that makes it fair for everyone. I don't approve of the American solution (kid is born, better get saving for their college tution now) and our system certainly isn't perfect but there are problems with every system. In an ideal world the tution could be provided at no cost to anyone but that simply won't happen.
Those are some interesting points, but what do you think about government budget cuts on less necessary services to at least lower tuition fees?
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Tiger Rag
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Moved to education debate.

The money has to come from somewhere. Students have already had some 13 years of free education.

It's not just the education that students are paying for. It's also the facilities of the university.

If we lowered fees, where would the extra money come from?

It's not as if yu have to find the money up front either. Just think of it as a graduate tax.
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Davalla
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(Original post by MoonlightBoo)
Those are some interesting points, but what do you think about government budget cuts on less necessary services to at least lower tuition fees?
Tuition fees are seen as one of the less necessary services of government funding. The whole point of the raising of fees/scrapping of partial funding proposal is to ensure that funds are better used elsewhere.
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MoonlightBoo
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(Original post by Davalla)
Tuition fees are one of the less necessary services of government funding. The whole point of the raising of fees proposal is to increase funds for the more crucial areas.
But what about people who aren't in the financial situation to pay for fees? As another user said, in some cases, people coming from a rich family don't get much finance help, and they're left alone if their parents aren't stepping in. Shouldn't it be EASIER for people to get higher education, so they can be the next doctors, solicitors, engineers, etc? Shouldn't that make it a government priority?
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Tiger Rag
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(Original post by MoonlightBoo)
But what about people who aren't in the financial situation to pay for fees? As another user said, in some cases, people coming from a rich family don't get much finance help, and they're left alone if their parents aren't stepping in. Shouldn't it be EASIER for people to get higher education, so they can be the next doctors, solicitors, engineers, etc? Shouldn't that make it a government priority?
But no-one pays for fees upfront. They come out of your wages and are written off after either 30 years or when you reach a certain age.
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senz72
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Cut fees only if you cut the number of universities (and subsequently uni places.) Create technical schools that provide other qualifications.

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999tigger
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(Original post by MoonlightBoo)
But what about people who aren't in the financial situation to pay for fees? As another user said, in some cases, people coming from a rich family don't get much finance help, and they're left alone if their parents aren't stepping in. Shouldn't it be EASIER for people to get higher education, so they can be the next doctors, solicitors, engineers, etc? Shouldn't that make it a government priority?
That is why the givernment lends you the money up front. You only repay the fees when you can afford to i.e earning over £21k and even then its at low interest and spread over 25 years.

What about the responsibiliyu of the parents who choose to have the children? They cna use some of their wealth on those kids?

There is already provision if you are estranged.

£9,500 is often a fraction of the real costs for doing a course i.e medicine.
We dont really need any more solicitors and tbh most of them go and make a well paid career in the cimmercial law, so its an investment.

Btw what services would you be cutting? You do realise a big % of student loans are never paid back?
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Rohit_Rocks10
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(Original post by MoonlightBoo)
TSR, whats your opinion on tuition fees? Do you think it's unfair that people are making money out of the education of our children? Or do you think not providing it would mean people would take it for granted?
Whats your view?
If tuition fees would be free, where would they get the money to build those huge campuses.
But the £9000 for home/EU students and £18000 for international students is kind of unfair
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shawn_o1
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University is too easy to get into, that's why fees are so high.
Companies should do more to train people up to become skilled members of the workforce. And universities should only be letting in students who wish to contribute academically to what they study, rather than it being a means of staying in education and delaying important career decisions. Basically, if A-Levels were the same standard as they were in 1960 then we wouldn't have a tuition fee problem as only the smartest people would get in.
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Acsel
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(Original post by MoonlightBoo)
Those are some interesting points, but what do you think about government budget cuts on less necessary services to at least lower tuition fees?
I would approve of some sort of subsidising like that. Drop spending on weapons and put it into education for example. However that doesn't alleviate the problem that at the end of the day the money is still coming from taxpayers. If I had a choice I'd rather my tax goes into education than weapons, within reason of course.

This is keeping in mind that it doesn't solve the main problem though. University fees remain high, they are just paid for in some other way. To truly drop education costs it would involve dropping fees, not just subsidising them.
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Mair18919
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Fees are a 'good thing' . They make students think harder about what course to do, and even if you want to go to university. They also give students more clout in demanding courses come up to par (although not at top unis where teaching isnt always good enough).
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Trevish
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The fees are still exaggerating
If you see well, you spend 25 years of your life studying minimum, then get trying to get a job with no certain salary and the time you repay your student loans etc, it will take years.

Here in University of Mauritius, the degrees are subsidised by the govt.
Accounting & Finance degree over three years will cost in total like £4000., a like £1200 per year or something

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MoonlightBoo
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(Original post by Mair18919)
Fees are a 'good thing' . They make students think harder about what course to do, and even if you want to go to university. They also give students more clout in demanding courses come up to par (although not at top unis where teaching isnt always good enough).
I agree with this, I think if fees weren't there, people would get into courses that they don't want to do because there wouldn't be that factor affecting their decision
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Ladbants
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Necessary. Making university tuition free would encourage more people to go to university even when that's not the best choice for them. We have far too many people going to university as it stands. And why should the tax payer pay for this when over half of people don't go to university
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MoonlightBoo
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(Original post by Ladbants)
Necessary. Making university tuition free would encourage more people to go to university even when that's not the best choice for them. We have far too many people going to university as it stands. And why should the tax payer pay for this when over half of people don't go to university
That's a very good point. What's your opinion on higher fees (sometimes double or even more) for international students? Do you think this is fair, or do you think they should get equal fees?
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Trevish
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(Original post by MoonlightBoo)
That's a very good point. What's your opinion on higher fees (sometimes double or even more) for international students? Do you think this is fair, or do you think they should get equal fees?
I think they should get equal fees.
Not all international students are rich
Many of then wish to study abroad to have a degree which will be hopefully recognised everywhere and have a greater importance.



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MoonlightBoo
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(Original post by Trevish)
I think they should get equal fees.
Not all international students are rich
Many of then wish to study abroad to have a degree which will be hopefully recognised everywhere and have a greater importance.



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Likewise. There's also the argument that there are enough applicants from the UK, so to give them opportunities, higher prices for international students are necessary. Do you agree with this?
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